Foreigners Hiding In The Philippines

[Americano]

Recently I went to the Immigration web site to check on the status of my 13A Visa and while I was there I did some searches and a lot of reading. I was amazed at how many cases I found about foreigners who had fled their home country to prevent arrest and prosecution and were hiding in the Philippines. Most of them continued their criminal activities in the Philippines.I have met a few foreigners in the Philippines who can't return to their home country for fear of arrest or are in the Philippines illegally or both. One of them is an American who's income is from running a forum and from scamming other foreigners and Filipinos. He is hiding in the Philippines because his investors are looking for him. He is also hiding because he continued abusing women when he came to the Philippines and has a criminal case filed against him. He's hiding so the court subpoena can't be served to him. And, he is hiding because he is Black listed and is in the country illegally. He has been in the Philippines since 2006 but didn't need to hide from Immigration until recently because Immigration didn't know he had illegally reentered the Philippines until it was reported to them. He claims to be in America now but he can't go there because his home state has an open felony investigation involving him. He is a fugitive from the law in America and the Philippines. I wonder how many other foreigners in the Philippines are fugitives from their own countries.I read on the Immigration web site that in 2008 Immigration and Interpol started sharing their information on the Internet so fugitives from other countries can be caught trying to enter or leave the Philippines.Read this case about a man who was hiding for 17 years in the Philippines. Immigration didn't know he was in the country so they were not looking for him.http://immigration.g...d=320&Itemid=78Here's a question for the readers of this thread. The criminal foreigners hiding in the Philippines make it look bad for all foreigners, so do you believe its our duty to help bring to justice our own people by at least letting Immigration know they are here or should we just pretend to be innocent by standers?

Edited February 10, 2012 by Americano

[Dave Hounddriver]

do you believe its our duty to help bring to justice our own people by at least letting Immigration know they are here or should we just pretend to be innocent by standers?

Oh my. A very thought provoking question. And a controversial one. In this country there are examples of corruption so that we cannot always believe that the authorities have just and valid charges. Thus there is a case for expats sticking together and emulating the 3 wise monkeys. On the other hand, righteous indignation would compel some people to turn in their own mother if they were convinced she was guilty of a crime. Then in the middle there are those who think we are not police officers, so unless there is an appeal for help to the general public, from the authorities, then we should leave policing to the officers.I stand in that middle ground.

[Jollygoodfellow]

do you believe its our duty to help bring to justice our own people by at least letting Immigration know they are here or should we just pretend to be innocent by standers?

Oh my. A very thought provoking question. And a controversial one. In this country there are examples of corruption so that we cannot always believe that the authorities have just and valid charges. Thus there is a case for expats sticking together and emulating the 3 wise monkeys. On the other hand, righteous indignation would compel some people to turn in their own mother if they were convinced she was guilty of a crime. Then in the middle there are those who think we are not police officers, so unless there is an appeal for help to the general public, from the authorities, then we should leave policing to the officers.I stand in that middle ground.

I'm not sure where I stand but if I was to consider say my sister or friend as a victim of such a said person then I would consider its my duty to turn them in. Someones sister or friend got burned so do we ignore it as expats "stick" together or only if it does not cause yourself hurt and pain.I give anyone a second chance but when the line is crossed many times; time to reconsider, it could be someones wife as the next victim!

[Dzighnman]

I'm not sure where I stand but if I was to consider say my sister or friend as a victim of such a said person then I would consider its my duty to turn them in. Someones sister or friend got burned so do we ignore it as expats "stick" together or only if it does not cause yourself hurt and pain. I give anyone a second chance but when the line is crossed many times; time to reconsider, it could be someones wife as the next victim!

I find this topic a very interesting one that never seems to get the open forum level of discussion it deserves. I would have to say in my mind, unless I witnessed abuse or otherwise infliction of pain, etc.... I would have to think hard about siding with the Philippine authorities or accusations as mentioned above, you just do not know if there is a hiden agenda and you are playing with lives.... BUT, having witnessed beating, verbal and physical abuse, criminal plotting (a.k.a. "scheming")... I would expect that I would take all actions that I thought were available to me, seek out those actions that were not available to me, but were to others and actively do all I could to prevent such actions from happening to others in the future. In the case that seems to be getting all the attention at the moment, I would think that the BOI, might consider what affect blacklisting had/has and possibly arrive at alternative penalties for repeat offenders.I spent alot of time in the Phils, talking to alot of foreigners and as a result when talking to my wife or friends, I feel that the vast majority of those that I came across, were running FROM their countries... and feeling pretty damn safe here in the Philippines...sure, that informal poll has alot of bias in that most all discussions happened in a resto/bar environment, but nonetheless, a fair number are running "FROM" to the Philippines, I am so happy to be one that is running FROM nothing and running TO a happy life in the Philippines, as I feel the majority of those active in this forum are, as well.If nothing is done, I think the natural progression of the mental disease, that enables a person to beat and abuse others, will make the abuse more frequent and only get worse. The person becomes increasingly emboldened to the point of a sense of being imperviable, above the law and untouchable. That confidence ultimately is their weakness. I think that in the end, any involvement is an individual's choice as they assess the circumstances, the risk to themselves or others and then decide for themselves what to , or no to, do about it. I choose to do something and have spent many hours trying to talk reason into people suffering from this illness but I am convinced there is no cure. I wonder if I would risk my own life for someone I see being abused, but I hope that I would always try to help those that are in a helpless situation and in need. Domestic abuse is a result of a mental deficiency in the abuser and needs a "VILLAGE" to end it. If the "Expat" community constitutes a "village" well than let's hope we can always find a way to do our part.? Doing your part does not always mean proactivity, it could simply be not associating, or supporting the abuser in any way.I saw a thread on this forum that thanks the forum members, which should serve to remind us all... what is a forum, if for not the members. If the proceeds generated from that other forum are in support of abusive and criminal activity?? Well then simply remove yourself from that forum... no forum members equals less revenue generation. You can fight abuse with more weapons than you may know. In the end, all unethical and criminal behaviour does reflect poorly on the expat community as a whole... and as the formula goes," it takes alot of sugar to make $h!t taste good." Thank you Americano for broaching the topic and thank you to this forum, for a place where I am not now "nailed to a cross" for having an opinion. :SugarwareZ-037: Edited February 10, 2012 by Jollygoodfellow
placed some space to make the post easier to read

[Old55]

To answer your question I guess I would only depending on the crime or danger the individual would be to those living in Philippines.There is a long history of persons moving to Philippines to avoid arrest and or to reinvent themselves. Not as easy today as in the past what with computers and money tracking and the like. Soon it may become be worthwhile for Philippines to search those persons out instead of playing $$$ along.

[JJReyes]

I won't attempt a citizen's arrest, but there is no problem about my reporting to authorities a known crimminal wanted by Interpol for a serious crime. If the person is illegally working or overstaying, I would consider that to be a "policy dispute" and not worthy of my time. Marital quarrels with the women claiming domestic abuse are a bit more tricky. The same when the quarrel includes the claim that the husband is sexually abusing the children. The abuse maybe true, but as someone else suggested, it would be more prudent to remain neutral.

[Old55]

In the case you put forward.... a forum owner who has stolen investment money beat Filipinas and other crimes, we know those guys will float to the top in time. It could be jail, deportation or motorcycle riding hit men. :hystery: Hmmm will we be reading about this in the local papers soon? :SugarwareZ-037:

[i am bob]

I was reading this one with great interest. I am a firm believer in doing what is right and for the right reasons. I had a great layout on what I wanted to present. And the wise JJR said it above better than I ever could! All I can add is "exactly"!

[Braddo]

I beleave there is enough corruption and behind the door deals happening in the Philippines already so why should we add to it by letting some known foreign fugitive be allowed to stay while still doing what he likes to woman or whatever abuse or dirty deeds he is up tooIf you know its true then get rid of them, send them back to face the music where they belong not to carry on doing what they want and giving other foreigners a bad name in the PI or any other country for that matterNow I will retreat and check my back for knives and bullet holes :tiphat:

[Dave Hounddriver]

After reading all of these VERY good comments. I have a couple of points to add:I remember reading of a security guard in Manila who shot someone committing a crime, he thought. He made it his business and thus shot a member of the film crew. Not sure if they left that scene in when making the movie.One reason for leaving Canada was to put as much distance as possible between me and an abusive exwife (verbal, emotional and financial kind of abuse so I use the term loosely). In that way, many of us are running FROM somewhere. I don't think of it that way but my point is that someone else might and that is why I prefer people stay out of my business in that very personal area. People in abusive relationships (victim and/or instigator) will probably not want your 'help'If an individual assists the authorities and later finds out it was a scam to coerce money from an individual, there is no way you can take back your well meant assistance. It comes back to not being trained police officers so not really knowing what we are doing when lending our help.When someone is said to be 'scamming' other foreigners of their investment, it oftentimes turns out to be a risky venture that all parties knew in advance was subject to the potential of failure. It seems to be human nature to instantly assume 'scam' when one loses money but the legal case is VERY hard to prove. (Google Celsar de Los Angelo if the spelling is right to see what I mean)Again, a very interesting topic and for each point that supports my position I can see how and why others would sit on the opposing side.Edit, let me just add that when individuals get involved in 'assisting the police' the end results have traditionally been vigilantism and posse's forming a 'necktie party'. Is that good or bad? Another topic I think.2nd Edit, for some of us there is a deciding moment in our lives when a certain opinion is formed. For me, when I was sixteen I saw an acquaintance stealing. Not knowing whether to say anything I turned to my father for advice. He was a cop. He insisted I 'rat' on the guy. The guy ended up getting off (not enough evidence). He knew the same friends I knew and my life for the next 5 years was hell. I was 'the rat'. I don't get involved in that kind of crap now.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Dave Hounddriver