Who Owns the WWII Shipwrecks?

[Dave Hounddriver]

A British ship, HMS Terror, sunk in Canadian waters in the 1840s (British waters at that time).  Britain looked for their ship for 80 years or so without finding it and finally agreed, in 1997, that if any wrecks were found:

Quote

Canada would get "custody and control of the wrecks and their contents," while the U.K. would retain ownership of them

Now the wreck has been located, by a native Canadian, and researched by a Canadian team.  I am wondering how long a country can claim ownership of a sunken ship?

This brings me to Philippines.  There are countless WWII shipwrecks scattered around Philippine waters, originally belonging to Japan, US and other countries.  Who owns them now?

[Jack Peterson]

16 minutes ago, Dave Hounddriver said:

I am wondering how long a country can claim ownership of a sunken ship?

 Hmmmm when I lived in spain a US treasure ship was found in Spanish waters the US Claimed it, I believe the Story goes on but I came across this that may help;

https://usia.com/2014/07/sunken-treasure-who-keeps-the-booty/

 This page has some interesting things to read; 

https://www.google.com.ph/search?q=usa+claim+sunken+ship+in+spain&rlz=1C1GIWA_enPH638PH638&oq=usa+claim+sunken+ship+in+spain&aqs=chrome..69i57.15191j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

Jack

 Morning all ( Hoping I can stay online today)

Edited October 25, 2017 by Jack Peterson
added a little

[Dave Hounddriver]

7 minutes ago, Jack Peterson said:

interesting things to read

Indeed.  I see one article where Spain got the rights to 250 wrecks off the US coast.  No mention of the fact that the treasure was looted from their colonies in the first place.  I would have thought that going back to "who owns the ship" would relate to "who owns the cargo" and since there are no Inca left alive to claim it then I would say finders keepers.  But that's just my off the cuff opinion.

But back to the wrecks in Philippines.  They are not treasure ships but military ships.  So it would seem that the country who owned the ships when afloat still owns the sunken remains, but those ships were sunk in war.  Does it still hold true that "To the victor go the spoils" ? ?

[Jack Peterson]

1 minute ago, Dave Hounddriver said:

Does it still hold true that "To the victor go the spoils" ? ?

 Good Question but for me, I would say in whose waters were they found, as to the Victor, who sank that ship? I tend to think it will be one of those unanswerable questions until someone actually asks, "Can i have my ship back please"  

[Old55]

I don't know the exact law. As a diver I do know US Navy ships that were sank in action are considered a grave site. Any molestation of those are not looked upon kindly.

[Dave Hounddriver]

8 minutes ago, Jack Peterson said:

until someone actually asks, "Can i have my ship back please"

I am just considering the "tourist dive" value of those wrecks and wondering what will happen when someone starts bringing back souvenirs.  The sunken military ships may be considered a shrine to the country who's men died on them.  I can't see them wanting their ships back, but I can see them wanting the ships be left alone and untouched.

[Dave Hounddriver]

2 minutes ago, Old55 said:

I do know US Navy ships that were sank in action are considered a grave site.

Good point.  But then, isn't every sunken ship a gravesite for somebody?  Unless intentionally sunk with no-one aboard or unless there was time for everyone to abandon ship . .  so what about the US Navy ships that everybody managed to get off of before they sank . . still a grave site?

Yes, I have an idle mind this morning  

[Jack Peterson]

5 minutes ago, Dave Hounddriver said:

Good point.  But then, isn't every sunken ship a gravesite for somebody?  Unless intentionally sunk with no-one aboard or unless there was time for everyone to abandon ship . .  so what about the US Navy ships that everybody managed to get off of before they sank . . still a grave site?

Yes, I have an idle mind this morning  

10 minutes ago, Dave Hounddriver said:

Yes, I have an idle mind this morning  

Idle maybe but very searching

 

 Quite agree but let's think "TITANIC" and although I do agree to Olds post, to counter, The US did not bat an eye when it sent down Divers to Molest the "ODYSSEY" in Spanish waters to reclaim their Gold in 2007  from a Grave site of 1902 

 I don't mean to be Argumentative But Divers from the US ROTA base were there in a couple of hours of the news breaking

[Tukaram (Tim)]

I don't know the law but to me it would make sense that a sunken ship is abandoned.  In international waters - finders keepers. Within a countries boundary - it belongs to whatever country controls that water.  As far as "shrines" go... sorry, all ships are someone's grave (except, of course, those sunk as reefs). We can either dive all of them - or none of them.  In Hawaii, the Arizona is still commissioned, so not abandoned.

[Huggybearman]

4 minutes ago, Tukaram (Tim) said:

 In Hawaii, the Arizona is still commissioned, so not abandoned.

That's an interesting snippet, Tim. I wasn't aware the Arizona is still a commisioned USN ship.              Any idea the reasoning behind it? I guess because of its status as a memorial.

The Royal Navy has a similar wreck, HMS Royal Oak which was sunk in a torpedo attack whilst at anchor in Scapa Flow in October 1939. As far as I am aware it is no longer a commisioned ship, however it is an official war grave and unauthorised diving on the wreck is prohibited. The Royal Navy do replace the White Ensign flag on it's stern annually as a mark of respect to the 833 crew members who perished.

Ken