Who Owns the WWII Shipwrecks?

[Tukaram (Tim)]

1 hour ago, Huggybearman said:

That's an interesting snippet, Tim. I wasn't aware the Arizona is still a commisioned USN ship.              Any idea the reasoning behind it? I guess because of its status as a memorial.

There are still over 1.000 men onboard. From my understanding, the memorial is built above the ship, but not touching it.  The flagpole is attached to the ship. 

I was just looking it up... and different websites disagree on whether it is still commissioned or not. They do agree that the US Navy still retains ownership, though... So I am not sure if it is commissioned or not.  They do have sailors serving there and colors are held daily (raising & lowering the flag).

 

~Edit~

Well according to the Navy registry I was wrong... it has happened once or twice before...  The Arizona was in fact decommissioned, but treated by the Navy as commissioned, so there is lots of confusion... 

http://www.nvr.navy.mil/SHIPDETAILS/SHIPSDETAIL_BB_39_1820.HTML

Edited October 25, 2017 by Tukaram (Tim)

[intrepid]

2 hours ago, Tukaram (Tim) said:

I don't know the law but to me it would make sense that a sunken ship is abandoned.  In international waters - finders keepers. Within a countries boundary - it belongs to whatever country controls that water.  As far as "shrines" go... sorry, all ships are someone's grave (except, of course, those sunk as reefs). We can either dive all of them - or none of them.  In Hawaii, the Arizona is still commissioned, so not abandoned.

I know the National Park Service controlled the Site but also had not heard of it being still commissioned.  I found this tidbit:

Arizona memorials

Main article: USS Arizona Memorial

It is commonly—albeit incorrectly—believed that Arizona remains perpetually in commission, like the USS Constitution.^[59]Arizona is under the control of the National Park Service, but the U.S. Navy still retains the title.^[2]Arizona retains the right, in perpetuity, to fly the United States flag as if she were an active, commissioned naval vessel.^[59]

^{Full article here;}   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Arizona_(BB-39)

[Huggybearman]

1 hour ago, Tukaram (Tim) said:

There are still over 1.000 men onboard. From my understanding, the memorial is built above the ship, but not touching it.  The flagpole is attached to the ship. 

I was just looking it up... and different websites disagree on whether it is still commissioned or not. They do agree that the US Navy still retains ownership, though... So I am not sure if it is commissioned or not.  They do have sailors serving there and colors are held daily (raising & lowering the flag).

 

~Edit~

Well according to the Navy registry I was wrong... it has happened once or twice before...  The Arizona was in fact decommissioned, but treated by the Navy as commissioned, so there is lots of confusion... 

http://www.nvr.navy.mil/SHIPDETAILS/SHIPSDETAIL_BB_39_1820.HTML

Thanks Tim.  Some interesting info there.

 

1 hour ago, intrepid said:

I know the National Park Service controlled the Site but also had not heard of it being still commissioned.  I found this tidbit:

Arizona memorials

Main article: USS Arizona Memorial

It is commonly—albeit incorrectly—believed that Arizona remains perpetually in commission, like the USS Constitution.^[59]Arizona is under the control of the National Park Service, but the U.S. Navy still retains the title.^[2]Arizona retains the right, in perpetuity, to fly the United States flag as if she were an active, commissioned naval vessel.^[59]

^{Full article here;}   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Arizona_(BB-39)

Thanks Intrepid.

I didn't realize the USS Constitution was still a commissioned warship.

A bit like our HMS Victory which is also still in commission - launched 1765, commissioned 1778. Although I guess it's main function nowadays is as a cocktail venue for all the Admirals!

With all the financial cutbacks to our armed services it won't be long before the Victory will be both the oldest, and the youngest, vessel in our navy!

Ken

Edited October 25, 2017 by Huggybearman

[Jack Peterson]

2 hours ago, Huggybearman said:

A bit like our HMS Victory which is also still in commission - launched 1765, commissioned 1778. Although I guess it's main function nowadays is as a cocktail venue for all the Admirals!

n 1922, she was moved to a dry dock at Portsmouth, England, and preserved as a museum ship. She has been the flagship of the First Sea Lord since October 2012 and is the world's oldest naval ship still in commission.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Victory

 Cheers Huggy

[Snowy79]

4 hours ago, Huggybearman said:

Thanks Tim.  Some interesting info there.

 

Thanks Intrepid.

I didn't realize the USS Constitution was still a commissioned warship.

A bit like our HMS Victory which is also still in commission - launched 1765, commissioned 1778. Although I guess it's main function nowadays is as a cocktail venue for all the Admirals!

With all the financial cutbacks to our armed services it won't be long before the Victory will be both the oldest, and the youngest, vessel in our navy!

Ken

 

1 hour ago, Jack Peterson said:

n 1922, she was moved to a dry dock at Portsmouth, England, and preserved as a museum ship. She has been the flagship of the First Sea Lord since October 2012 and is the world's oldest naval ship still in commission.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Victory

 Cheers Huggy

I've had the pleasure of getting drunk in the Mess onboard the Victory. Well worth a visit especially to see the medical facilities onboard. They're more like carpentry tools. 

[Old55]

Back on topic.

There are international maritime laws on salvaging wrecks and territorial laws as well. 

I can’t remember the exact details but a Spanish Galleon was discovered in international waters with considerable treasures both Spain and a South American country were contesting ownership with the discovery team.

In the dive community here in the States there are strong divisions to do with diving wrecks that contain human remains. Simply touching the wreckage is forbidden by one side while the other feels free to collect (looting) items. Google diving Andrea Doria for example.

The company I work for has an active dive club the consensus is diving and entering a wreck with out remains is fine. A wreck that contains remains is a grave site that must be undisturbed and respected. Especially true if a military vessel.

 Interesting topic Dave.

Edited October 25, 2017 by Old55