Grounding of electric appliances

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Dave Hounddriver
Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Jollygoodfellow said:

I often wonder what would happen when one is in the shower if a problem occurred. Burnt to a crisp comes to mind.

Back in the day, we used arc welders to thaw frozen water pipes in the far north.  Attack one clamp of the welder to either end of the frozen section and let the current thaw the ice.  It worked, but I also wondered about the neighbors in the shower.  In time that practice was made illegal due to fears of the scenario you mention but I don't think it ever actually happened to anyone.

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Mr-T
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Posted
8 hours ago, Jollygoodfellow said:

This has nothing to do with grounding. What it is in every country is a huge spike of electric current due to lightning strike. Grounding wont save your appliances in this case.

 

Although years ago this was the system. I often wonder what would happen when one is in the shower if a problem occurred. Burnt to a crisp comes to mind.  :mellow:

Burnt to a crisp, really? I rest my case. Just add the unplugging of appliances which surely have nothing to do with grounding. Never have i unplug any appliances during bad weather when i lived in the U.S. Never had a problem. 

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Jollygoodfellow
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Posted
1 hour ago, Mr-T said:

Burnt to a crisp, really? I rest my case. Just add the unplugging of appliances which surely have nothing to do with grounding. Never have i unplug any appliances during bad weather when i lived in the U.S. Never had a problem. 

Grounding is to stop people from being electrocuted so no it's not for things like a lightning strike which can cause a power surge. The building I lived in about 6 years ago took a hit to the roof and some of my neighbors devices were fried. I had surge protectors so I had no damage. If that crack of lightning is very loud then you know the storm is close so up to you if you want to protect your appliances. 

Quote

Zap, crackle and pop
The current in a lightning bolt can produce tens of thousands of amps and exceed 100,000 volts, says Phung, explaining that voltage is the electric potential (pressure) difference between two points in a circuit and current is a flow of electric charges.

"Even an indirect lightning strike near a power line is enough to induce a surge and substantially boost electrical pressure beyond the 230 volts most households receive from their mains supply inflicting serious damage on electrical devices," he says.

"Either the conductor (wires) heat up and burn, effectively frying your device. Or the excessive voltage causes the insulation that separates the conductors to break down resulting in a short-circuit fault."

If your computer is plugged into a wall socket that's switched on, even when it's in standby or sleep mode, it's vulnerable. That's because the lightning current can travel through the power cord or any other cable connected to your computer, says Phung.

"So if you think a storm is coming, you should physically disconnect your computer from the mains socket to protect it from a lightning surge," he says.

http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2013/06/11/3760939.htm

 

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mogo51
Posted
Posted
On 9/15/2017 at 7:05 AM, Dave Hounddriver said:

Good question.  Are you getting any static shocks when touching the appliances or are you feeling any vibration when you gently put a finger on the metal surface?

No but it does sound interesting!!!  I just bought a microwave Davewe, saw the same thing and took me a few minutes to  realise what it was.  Handyman I am not, more like an unhandyman.  I wondered where it was supposed to go also.  I had another guy install a water heater, told him to make sure he added a circuit breaker.

Came back to see it wired from the heater, across the window to a power point on the wall.  Told him to redo it, hopefully he will get it right tomorrow.

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Mr-T
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Seems like some misunderstanding here. The OP asked what he should do with the ground wire from his Refrigerator. I mentioned that he should ground it to a water pipe, this is a safe  and usual practice, not dangerous. One end of the wire is already grounded to the fridge, the free end to a grounding rod or water pipe as i was taught. 

Un plugging appliances is just a safety measure here in the Ph. Yes and only if the  socket is live. Just like you quoted. Best to unplug, better to be safe than sorry. When a unit is properly grounded if there is a electrical leak ( partial ground) on the unit the excess voltage will go to ground thous preventing someone from getting shocked. Even the transmission poles must be grounded when it is a metal pole. Where i live they use the two wire system for electric supply to the customers. This is outdated and not safe.  

I am just trying to answer a simple question. Next time i will keep my mouth shut. Two third of my life i worked with electricity. over 55 yrs. Guessed i am not qualified to answer a simple question. 

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Snowy79
Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Mr-T said:

Seems like some misunderstanding here. The OP asked what he should do with the ground wire from his Refrigerator. I mentioned that he should ground it to a water pipe, this is a safe  and usual practice, not dangerous. One end of the wire is already grounded to the fridge, the free end to a grounding rod or water pipe as i was taught. 

Un plugging appliances is just a safety measure here in the Ph. Yes and only if the  socket is live. Just like you quoted. Best to unplug, better to be safe than sorry. When a unit is properly grounded if there is a electrical leak ( partial ground) on the unit the excess voltage will go to ground thous preventing someone from getting shocked. Even the transmission poles must be grounded when it is a metal pole. Where i live they use the two wire system for electric supply to the customers. This is outdated and not safe.  

I am just trying to answer a simple question. Next time i will keep my mouth shut. Two third of my life i worked with electricity. over 55 yrs. Guessed i am not qualified to answer a simple question. 

Sorry to put the cat among the pigeons but in the UK under 14th Edition Wiring Regulations ( I can't speak for other countries) connecting an earth to a water pipe is no longer permitted and classed as unsafe.

The reasoning being some plumbers use PTFE tape or plastic fittings in water systems which as you know doesn't conduct electricity. I'm also a qualified Electrical Mechanical Engineer and as part of any electrical installation I'd use a Mettrel to commission any circuits I'd put in. You'd be surprised how many fail through earthing faults. 

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MikeB
Posted
Posted

Just ordered a 3-outlet surge protector for my laptop.

TV, modem, printer, etc etc was already protected but not laptop. What would I do w/o it? Thanks, guys. 

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Old55
Posted
Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Mr-T said:

Seems like some misunderstanding here. The OP asked what he should do with the ground wire from his Refrigerator. I mentioned that he should ground it to a water pipe, this is a safe  and usual practice, not dangerous. One end of the wire is already grounded to the fridge, the free end to a grounding rod or water pipe as i was taught. 

Un plugging appliances is just a safety measure here in the Ph. Yes and only if the  socket is live. Just like you quoted. Best to unplug, better to be safe than sorry. When a unit is properly grounded if there is a electrical leak ( partial ground) on the unit the excess voltage will go to ground thous preventing someone from getting shocked. Even the transmission poles must be grounded when it is a metal pole. Where i live they use the two wire system for electric supply to the customers. This is outdated and not safe.  

I am just trying to answer a simple question. Next time i will keep my mouth shut. Two third of my life i worked with electricity. over 55 yrs. Guessed i am not qualified to answer a simple question. 

No need to get upset. Nobody is calling you out or doubting you. Jake and I along with others here have extensive electrical backgrounds same as you. What you said was correct and helpful except in Philippines as you know things get kinda.......

Philippines is not the States. Standards are ignored damaged or modified by Dong Bubba.

Take my folks old house that we grounded. The limestone was a few inches deep water pipes did go into the dirt about zero to one inches deep 

into very dry soil. The service poles there were cement. I could not see any grounding on the poles I carefully looked at the one housing the nearest transformer. The very first thing I thought to do is use the nearest water pipe in the house for ground in our case that would not have been the best choice. We used the old well pipe. In 1998 a tree next to the house was hit by lightning that blast took out the TV and some radios in the house.

The fall winter we are having a major renovation to our 1960 home here in the states. The water pipes will be replaced and yes I am using one iron pipe for our home ground. During the renovation most or all our pipes will be plastic. We will have a new service panel installed along with a ground to that panel and all duplex outlets will then host a "real" ground the CR and kitchen will have ground fault detector duplex outlets as well.

 

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Jake
Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, Old55 said:

No need to get upset. Nobody is calling you out or doubting you. Jake and I along with others here have extensive electrical backgrounds same as you. What you said was correct and helpful except in Philippines as you know things get kinda.......

Philippines is not the States. Standards are ignored damaged or modified by Dong Bubba.

Dong Bubba?  Is that the cousin of Juan de la Cruz?  

You know, if I was an experienced electrician or home builder/contractor.......I think I would be pulling my hair out watching/monitoring "Dong Bubba" build my home with questionable standards.  Or simple standards basically ignored, like ignoring building codes by using it as butt wipes.  

We are fortunate to have resident experts in da house, as well as recently new home owners (Jack P, PaulB, Intrepid) and others to gleam over their lessons learned.  That's the beauty of this forum -- we learn from other's mistakes, trials and tribulations.  Be it relationships that went south or getting a tingle when touching your stereo system, we are grateful for your wisdom, at the cost of sleepless nights and headaches on your part.  

Respectfully Jake, 4th illegitimate cousin of Bubba.  

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