Mr Lee Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 :thumbsup: Saturday, October 29, 2011THE British Embassy in Manila assured full cooperation with Cebu authorities on the arrest of Ian Charles Griffiths, one of two suspects in the kidnap and murder of six-year-old Ellah Joy Pique.“We are here to discuss issues with the governor and we are here to support the Cebu authorities,” said Deputy Head of Mission Trevor Lewis, following a closed-door meeting with Gov. Gwendolyn Garcia yesterday and members of the prosecution panel. Lewis admitted they have no knowledge of the whereabouts of Griffiths, who is now in the Interpol Red Notice list. More HERE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garpo Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 (edited) Good attempt at putting political pressure on the UK. That might and usually does help get things done in the Philippines but, I doubt that the UK justice system is going to do anything special on this. From what I understand, there is certain procedures that the Philippines have to go through in an attempt to get Griffiths to stand trial in the Philippines and as of yet they just have not done them. Not sure that political pressure is going to do much good at this point. Edited October 28, 2011 by Garpo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hounddriver Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 If the British Embassy is anything like the Americans, then they already believe there is a 40% chance Griffiths is a sex offender and therefore guilty of any sex crime he is accused of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve & Myrlita Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 If the British Embassy is anything like the Americans, then they already believe there is a 40% chance Griffiths is a sex offender and therefore guilty of any sex crime he is accused of.It used to be innocent until otherwise proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Now it's guilty until proven innocent beyond a shadow of a doubt and then you're still guilty. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markham Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 Good attempt at putting political pressure on the UK. That might and usually does help get things done in the Philippines but, I doubt that the UK justice system is going to do anything special on this. From what I understand, there is certain procedures that the Philippines have to go through in an attempt to get Griffiths to stand trial in the Philippines and as of yet they just have not done them. Not sure that political pressure is going to do much good at this point. Good attempt at putting political pressure on the UK. That might and usually does help get things done in the Philippines but, I doubt that the UK justice system is going to do anything special on this. From what I understand, there is certain procedures that the Philippines have to go through in an attempt to get Griffiths to stand trial in the Philippines and as of yet they just have not done them. Not sure that political pressure is going to do much good at this point.Political pressure will do absolutely no good and might even cause harm. Britain isn't going to be bullied into giving-up one of her citizens on evidence that's largely circumstantial, identification based on six-to-seven year-old photos and where "heart-felt conviction", odours and dreams are part of the evidence. And I rather think Trevor Lewis will have told the Governor that. What he almost certainly won't have done is to advise them how best to frame their request but probably would have advised them to seek that advice from their Embassy in London. There is the distinct possibility that both the Governor and Prosecutors will be wondering if the evidence is strong enough to pass the "London test". It would be a national humiliation if it isn't. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garpo Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 I am trying to read between the lines here and in doing so, my guess is that the Philippine prosecutors are looking for some guidance from the UK in how to properly ASK for assistance in what is needed and how to proceed with getting him back to the Philippines to stand trial. I understand that there will be some type of hearing in the UK in which the prosecutors will have to show most of their hand as far as evidence. Does the defense also have a chance to present evidence? Or will they just be allowed to question and attack the prosecutors case? I would think by now that Griffiths lawyers have been gathering evidence toward innocence, rather that just sitting back and hoping to attack the prosecutors evidence. If Griffiths is in fact not guilty and not involved in the crime then it should not be hard to gather such evidence to show it. Remember the first couple that was arrested? Their attorneys were smart by going out and gathering evidence of their own, rather than just sitting back and waiting to shoot holes in the police gathered evidence. Some times the best defense is a strong offense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markham Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 I am trying to read between the lines here and in doing so, my guess is that the Philippine prosecutors are looking for some guidance from the UK in how to properly ASK for assistance in what is needed and how to proceed with getting him back to the Philippines to stand trial. I understand that there will be some type of hearing in the UK in which the prosecutors will have to show most of their hand as far as evidence. Does the defense also have a chance to present evidence? Or will they just be allowed to question and attack the prosecutors case? It is not up to the British Embassy to provide legal advice or assistance to a foreign power and they won't have done that. When the request is received: Ian Griffiths will be arrested, asked to surrender his Passport, released on Police Bail (no surety) and his Solicitors will be given a copy of the Mutual Legal Assistance Request which details the charges against him. Things will then go quiet. The Home Office - which handles such requests - will appoint a senior lawyer to act on behalf of the Philippine Government and he will perform a first review of the case - a bit like what Prosecutors do in the Philippines to decide whether they will accept and prosecute the case. The Request could fail at this stage because the government lawyer will not request a hearing unless he is confident he can win his case. There will then be a period of discovery between the parties, exchanging documents etc. The Request can still fail at this stage. The Crown Prosecution Service will be monitoring this process and can at any time charge Griffiths under Section 9 of the Offences Against the Person Act in which case the extradition process fails and he is then tried in an English Court. There will then be a hearing and both sides make written and oral submissions to a panel of Judges and it is they who decide if there is a case for Griffiths to answer. All evidence has to be presented in a form acceptable under English Law and it is equally weighed under the law. Live witness statements, because of their inherent unreliability are less important than good physical and forensic evidence. Unfortunately for the Philippine Prosecutor, he has (now just) six witnesses and no actual or forensic evidence to back his case. If they decide there is a case to answer, there are a number of appeal stages including the Court of Appeals, the House of Lords and the European Court. Finally the case will end up on the Home Secretary's desk and she will make a decision based not only on the probable cause finding by the panel (and upheld at each appeal stage) but also have to take into account a number of other factors - human rights, swift and fair trial etc., any of which could be a barrier to his being sent for trial here. The above could take anything from a few weeks to several years. Mark 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garpo Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 It sounds like Santos is then going to end up going to trial first and without Griffiths. If I were Griffiths lawyer this would make me very nervous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markham Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 It sounds like Santos is then going to end up going to trial first and without Griffiths. If I were Griffiths lawyer this would make me very nervous.That Santos will be tried first is very likely but not something likely to cause too much worry to Griffiths' London lawyers. Santos could be acquitted which would mean the case against Griffiths would be very shakey and likely would have to be withdrawn. But even if she were to be found guilty, that would not influence any proceedings against him in London where the tests are far more stringent. A "no case to answer" verdict in London will very likely have an "interesting" effect in Cebu. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garpo Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 I agree in that it is going to be very interesting to see how all of this plays out. Giving the prosecutors a practice trial with Santos is not going to help Griffiths in my opinion. I would think that his lawyers would be out looking for evidence of innocence like what the first arrested couple did and eventually were released. As from what I have seen so far, the only thing that his and her lawyers have done is talk about how weak the prosecutors case is. Every defense attorney says that, so nothing new or interesting there as far as I am concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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