Did He ask for it?

[scott h]

While my sympathies are with this cats family for their loss, I can not help but to think. "Where does personal responsibility start?" This young man MUST have been advised or seen all the travel advisories. He MUST have known about foreigners being held for minor or fabricated offenses in NORKOR. Then he goes and tears down a poster? Most likely for a souvenir in a juvenile stunt.

Is it to bad he died? Yes. Did he bring it on himself? IMHO YOU BET!

What does this have to do with the Philippines you ask? Know the country you are visiting or moving to, if a person doesn't they have no one to blame but themselves. The naïve idea that "I am a Yank, or Brit or Aussie or Canadian" will protect us is no excuse.

 

Otto Warmbier, an American college student who was released by North Korea in a coma last week, has died, according to his family. 

The family announced his death on Monday in a statement released by UC Health Systems, saying, "It is our sad duty to report that our son, Otto Warmbier, has completed his journey home. Surrounded by his loving family, Otto died today at 2:20pm."

The family thanked the University of Cincinnati Medical Center for treating him but said, "Unfortunately, the awful torturous mistreatment our son received at the hands of the North Koreans ensured that no other outcome was possible beyond the sad one we experienced today."

They said they were choosing to focus on the time they were given with their "warm, engaging, brilliant" son instead of focusing on what they had lost.

Warmbier was sentenced to 15 years in prison with hard labour in North Korea, convicted of subversion after he tearfully confessed he had tried to steal a propaganda banner.

The University of Virginia student was held for more than 17 months and medically evacuated from North Korea last week.

Doctors said he returned with severe brain damage, but it was not clear what caused it.

Parents Fred and Cindy Warmbier told The Associated Press news agency in a statement the day of his release that they wanted "the world to know how we and our son have been brutalised and terrorised by the pariah regime " and expressed relief he had been returned to "finally be with people who love him."

Ohio's US senators sharply criticised North Korea soon after his release.

Republican Sen. Rob Portman of the Cincinnati area said North Korea should be "universally condemned for its abhorrent behavior."

Democratic Sen. Sherrod Brown of Cleveland said the country's "despicable actions ... must be condemned." Portman added that the Warmbiers have "had to endure more than any family should have to bear."

Three Americans remain held in North Korea. The US government accuses North Korea of using such detainees as political pawns.

North Korea accuses Washington and South Korea of sending spies to overthrow its government.

[Mike J]

The question that kept coming into my mind as I read the news was "Why in the hell would anyone in their right mind want to visit North Korea?"  It seems that people from the USA, and other democratic countries, seem to feel they have certain "rights" even when they are outside their native borders.  The more liberal the political climate of the home country, the more likely they are to get into trouble and then cry foul.  I am reminded of the tourist, I think he was Dutch, who was sent to jail here in the Philippines for several years because he had a couple of marijuana cigarettes in his possession.  He and his friends were outraged that he could be treated in such a manner.   When traveling to another country it would be a good idea to remember those infamous words that Dorthy spoke in the Wizard of Oz.  "Toto, I don't think we are in Kansas anymore."

[mogo51]

I agree with both posts above and there is no doubt that this young man did a very stupid thing.  The first stupid thing, going there in the first place.  It's notlike there aren't any other countries to go to.

However, the response by North Korean thugs aka military/police is a great 'overkill' (sorry for the pun).  This young man was stupid no doubt, but that is not enough for him to be killed.  When will the rest of the world make this medieval country be accountable for his reckless actions.

[Dave Hounddriver]

46 minutes ago, Mike J said:

"Why in the hell would anyone in their right mind want to visit North Korea?"

As I read this, my mind flashes back to stories of black people in the southern US who wanted to visit Texas (years ago) and yet they must have known that the red necks there may tie them up and drag them behind their pickup trucks and yet they still went.

Then there were the missionaries of old who went into areas where they knew darn well the local headhunters were going to kill them and eat them, and yet they still went.

In current times there are local expats who want the thrill of travelling to Mindanao, even though there are people being killed there, and ye they still go.

I don't know how to account for it except to say some people seem to get an erection travelling into danger zones.  Its weird.  Yes it is wrong for the North Koreans to allow people into their country and then treat them this way.  If they don't want them and they close the borders and the guy still sneaks in then its all on him.  But if he came in legally then No Kor has a moral obligation to just deport the guy if he is committing some minor offense.  Not lock him up until he gets sick and dies.  If they don't like that then don't let people in.

[robert k]

1 hour ago, Mike J said:

The question that kept coming into my mind as I read the news was "Why in the hell would anyone in their right mind want to visit North Korea?"  It seems that people from the USA, and other democratic countries, seem to feel they have certain "rights" even when they are outside their native borders.  The more liberal the political climate of the home country, the more likely they are to get into trouble and then cry foul.  I am reminded of the tourist, I think he was Dutch, who was sent to jail here in the Philippines for several years because he had a couple of marijuana cigarettes in his possession.  He and his friends were outraged that he could be treated in such a manner.   When traveling to another country it would be a good idea to remember those infamous words that Dorthy spoke in the Wizard of Oz.  "Toto, I don't think we are in Kansas anymore."

I think the guy was ( some nationality ), his defense was the laws are barbaric, not that he wasn't guilty of breaking them, he needed a better lawyer. The guy then went on to say he was going on a hunger strike...in Philippine prison? Who would notice?

I don't think the young man deserved death. I think he believe that all places are the same because the open borders crowd keep saying that and he was in the academic bubble chamber. Not all places are the same. Americans are not covered by the constitution after leaving US territory. Kids need to be taught these things.

Funny that someone can erroneously say it was a Dutch man ....I have to look up the video now.

 

Edited June 20, 2017 by robert k
correct spelling, first edit was for censorship.

[robert k]

35 minutes ago, Dave Hounddriver said:

As I read this, my mind flashes back to stories of black people in the southern US who wanted to visit Texas (years ago) and yet they must have known that the red necks there may tie them up and drag them behind their pickup trucks and yet they still went.

 

Wasn't tied up in the Texas matter, just lodged under the truck. I think you are mixing it up with the South Carolina matter where the man was chained behind a truck. Not to defend anyone, hit and run/attempted murder/murder would have been a heinous enough crime but to keep the record straight.

[OnMyWay]

Reminds me of a British guy I used to work with.  He was gay but not very effeminate.  Most people did not know for sure that he was gay.

He had some Iranian friends and used to take vacations in Iran.  Not a place I would vacation but he loved it.  It could be his friends were well connected and protected him well.  His family in the UK was super wealthy and he really did not need to work.

Edited June 20, 2017 by OnMyWay

[Queenie O.]

I think I read that he stopped over for a quick visit on his way to Hong Kong to begin a study program abroad.  It's sad what happened to him, but I think that it was foolhardy of him to stop there in the first place. What possessed him to impulsively grab  that banner, we'll never know.  Naive and inexperienced I guess, and it cost him his life. Travel anywhere  requires common sense and having your wits about you,  let alone when venturing in to dangerous or unwelcoming places.

[Queenie O.]

13 minutes ago, OnMyWay said:

Reminds me of a British guy I used to work with.  He was gay but not very effeminate.  Most people did not know for sure that he was gay.

He had some Iranian friends and used to take vacations in Iran.  Not a place I would vacation but he loved it.  It could be his friends were well connected and protected him well.  His family in the UK was super wealthy and he really did not need to work.

Maybe he was rebelling and sympathizing with the treatment of gays in Iran. Being wealthy he must have felt that he was more protected and insulated.

[Ram1957]

Did he ask for it? Well I'm sure he didn't. Too bad he got caught up it the situation that ended his life. On the other hand why was North Korea still a country the United States allows a passport holder to visit. Yet there are three countries you cannot visit on a US Passport. Those countries are, Central African Republic, Eritrea and Libya. So why wasn't North Korea on that list as they are known for the prison camps and human rights abuses? North Korea still holds other foreign nationals in their prisons hopefully they won't meet with the same fate as Otto did. My heart goes out to his family and friends. Nobody should have to die just because he has different views of the world than the Government of North Korea has. https://www.tripsavvy.com/countries-you-cant-visit-with-us-passport-3259961