POOR? just what is Poor especially here in the PI

[stevewool]

Thank God I am not poor compared to some folk, 

If many of you folks employ people what do you pay them if you don't mind me asking.

 

[MikeB]

1 hour ago, Benington said:

A haircut from P50.

A few years ago I was walking around Valencia with Dave H, trying to decide if I wanted to live there and we saw a big sign in front of a store, "HAIRCUTS P20". That's the cheapest I've ever seen. We laughed because there is a well-known (notorious) cheapskate who would have jumped on it. We passed. Remember, Dave?

To the topic, contrary to what many think, there is govt aid like the "4Ps". The truly poor get a base benefit and extra for each child who attends school at least 85% of the time. Our helper had 6 kids, 3 in school. Between that and what I was paying her and her on-and-off working husband they did all right. But it's not exactly the model of efficiency. When she moved one town away, from Dalaguete to Argao, it took them over a year to restart payments. No back pay, of course.

[Benington]

9 hours ago, MikeB said:

A few years ago I was walking around Valencia with Dave H, trying to decide if I wanted to live there and we saw a big sign in front of a store, "HAIRCUTS P20". That's the cheapest I've ever seen

...there is govt aid like the "4Ps". The truly poor get a base benefit and extra for each child who attends school at least 85% of the time. Our helper had 6 kids, 3 in school. Between that and what I was paying her and her on-and-off working husband they did all right.

I saw one or two 40s a few years ago, but 20 is worryingly low for both barbero and customer! He would need large tips to survive if it was a long term price..and in over 10 years here I've never seen a local give a tip in a regular barber shop.

Yes, there's the 4Ps cash transfer program, targeted at the lowest income families. It's one of the most sophisticated and far reaching poverty reduction programs in the world. Something to admire, but it also draws attention to the acuteness of the  problem. Keeping track of people who move from squat to squat must be very difficult.

Sure, the helper "did all right", but the official aim of the 4Ps is for families to graduate from the program. How hard that is can be seen from this Davao report:

http://www.sunstar.com.ph/davao/local-news/2017/02/14/21-4ps-reach-self-sufficiency-525642 

Despite rumours to the contrary the Aquino 4P program has been kept and expanded under Pres. Duterte, with the DSWD budget upped by 17%. Critics view it as a "stop gap" measure. They prefer to talk about "quality growth" as an aim and would prefer that the government concentrates more on areas like agriculture, not spending so much on infrastructure, which they feel won't help the poor much. I tend to agree.

Possibly, some of their measures will make things worse. Increased excise taxes on fuel as part of the Tax Reform package are going to increase inflation, already rising due to Peso weakness. The poor don't benefit from lower income tax. The recently not confirmed DSWD secretary had promised to compensate them, but then that money cannot be used on the government's growth agenda items.

 

[scott h]

12 hours ago, Benington said:

but I think everybody would agree that P100 a day is about as low as you can go here

Nope, 20 pesos for 14 pieces of pan de sal, 30 pesos for tapas and rise,  10 pesos for 2 sticks of BBQ. (and that's here in metro where prices are higher) that leaves a person 50 pesos for beer or smokes or whatever. With in a 2 minute walk there are 5 coconut trees (never picked). It all depends on a persons view on what someone NEEDS.

Unless a person lives in Bagio, I have never heard of someone dying of hypothermia here.

[MikeB]

The country desperately needs the RH Law to be implemented and I read that Duterte was pressing hard for the implementation in his 2017 SONA speech, even addressing the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court directly as to why there was still a TRO on the law almost 5 years after it was signed into law. First a secret congressional committee gutted the budget by 80%, than the Supreme Court put a TRO on 2 specific contraceptive implants but it stopped the distributions of almost all contraceptives to the poor. Lies were circulated that they cause blindness and disease. Hundreds of millions of pesos were spent on these implants that are now expiring. Even though it’s the law they continue to sabotage it and always will. Hopeless.

 

[Jack Peterson]

1 hour ago, Benington said:

I saw one or two 40s a few years ago, but 20 is worryingly low for both barbero and customer! He would need large tips to survive if it was a long term price..and in over 10 years here I've never seen a local give a tip in a regular barber shop.

 This the sort of thing I was Referring to, The barber I use is 40 pesos ( about average over all Dumaguete) and takes 5/10 mins, he rents a chair in a 6 man Service and actually earns well, he bought a Rouser Motorcycle last year and the fact that he still has it means to me that he is making his payments so He survives and at a price that the local can Afford and at the same time make Foreigners Happy. As to Tips well he gets plenty but he tells me that is his Beer Money, I guess  Some here you may be living in a pretty up market place as here in the Poorer end of Negros most of the locals Tip and I have noticed this when Out, the Seemingly better off Local Does not Tip yet the Man in the Street does, So now I ask, do you all think/agree In my Thinking that some are not as Poor as they Make out?  I pay 40 + a 20 peso tip = 60 and am Happy at that.

 I would ask Though, what you mean by a Regular Barbers Shop? to me, a Barber's shop is a Barbers Shop, if you mean one of those fancy MALL sited Well lit salon type things with all the Adverts of Stars and types of Cuts. You're paying for all that 

 BTW he does about on Average of 150 cuts per week so at 25 peso( his cut of the 40 after chair rent)= 3.750 peso per week in wages + Tips and only works 5 days, he can work 6 or 7 but says he is not Greedy & he has a wife & 2 Kids at Home  

 Closing on this Barber issue I will ask has anyone really seen an EMPTY barbers Shop for more than a few Minutes? My barbers are open 6.45am to 8pm with different starting times for the lads  subject  to demand

[Benington]

11 minutes ago, scott h said:

.. that leaves a person 50 pesos for beer or smokes or whatever... It all depends on a persons view on what someone NEEDS.

Unless a person lives in Bagio, I have never heard of someone dying of hypothermia here.

,,,40 actually...doesn't leave much for beer and cigs.....could have a cheap haircut instead.

Sure, Ph is one of the easier countries in the world to find cheap, crowded places to live in or even to live outside. Many may see it at first as a short term solution to their problems and they do get some tangible benefits, But then it can become long term. With plenty of ways to get illnesses like TB, which you can die from.

For many in long term poverty their needs will have been influenced by feelings of hopelessness.

So,I don't know if the people running programs like the 4Ps try to ensure that the people they are aiding genuinely want to get out of extreme poverty. It's a "conditional" program, but are they really going to take people off?

[Benington]

25 minutes ago, Jack Peterson said:

 This the sort of thing I was Referring to, The barber I use is 40 pesos ( about average over all Dumaguete) and takes 5/10 mins, he rents a chair in a 6 man Service and actually earns well,  Some here you may be living in a pretty up market place as here in the Poorer end of Negros most of the locals Tip

 I would ask Though, what you mean by a Regular Barbers Shop?

I mean the same sort of basic shop as you describe...here in Tagaytay it's a bit more, at 50 or 60. They don't attract the better heeled locals, so many Malls they can go to in Cavite and Manila, so that's maybe why they are not that busy. Tagaytay is a bit spread out, no one central area, maybe people don't become regular enough in any one shop to feel they should give a tip?

[Jack Peterson]

3 minutes ago, Benington said:

maybe people don't become regular enough in any one shop to feel they should give a tip?

Not wanting to get into tips again per say but I don't Tip because I am a regular anywhere I tip for the Service Given

[scott h]

12 minutes ago, Benington said:

extreme poverty

It might help Ben if you give us Your definition of "extreme poverty" it might help to refine the discussion. Not the description of some ivory tower fuzzy eared academic lololol.

Extreme poverty to me is those areas of the world where drought, famine and water born diseases run rampant. These are in my opinion brought on by over population, which is a self inflicted problem.