POGO article

[hk blues]

3 minutes ago, OnMyWay said:

I agree that it is an editorial with an anti-Duterte slant, but even if you take the statistics with a grain of salt, they are alarming.

I think your downside list is very short.

--  Yes, their are trickle down jobs that are generally lower skilled jobs, but the big, big money is going into the pockets of big corporations and criminal syndicates.

--  Big money is also going into the pockets of those involved in corruption.  Politicians, police, building managers, etc.  Everyone wants a piece of the pie.

--  You have forgotten that many of the Chinese average POGO employees were scammed and do not receive the promised wages and benefits.  Organized crime is probably involved in the entire recruitment process.  Some of these employees are treated like slaves.

-- The illegal immigration aspect of this is huge and the government really has no idea how many legal or illegal POGO workers there are.

--  The tax collection can't be improved much unless the illegal immigration is stopped.  Billions of lost pesos that could be used to improve the lives of Filipinos.

--  The skyrocketing real estate prices are impacting the average Filipino, who get priced out of the market and then have to rent at higher rates.

--  As we all know, the Philippines is really poor at enforcement of laws.  They like to make them, but they are not enforced due to lack of resources or corruption.  Therefore, everything they say about changing the way POGOs are handled is probably just talk.  Nothing will change.  Unless....

--  I still think, or hope, this will end with a complete phase-out or ban of POGOs.  However, The Philippines has played right into the hands of the Chinese again.  The Chinese could pull the plug on this any time they want, but now hold all the financial cards.  If the POGOs go, the Philippines real estate market will collapse and the economy will fall into a recession.  Perhaps the next administration can tackle it.

I could go on but I'm tired.  As stated in my September post, POGOs are a big mistake for the Philippines.  IMHO.

Again, to put  a more balanced slant on things, couldn't many of the above downsides be applied to many types of overseas (and domestic) investment here, and indeed the mere presence of foreigners here?  That said two wrongs don't make a right.

I very much doubt the removal of POGOs will enrich the lives of many/any Filipinos. 

[OnMyWay]

14 minutes ago, hk blues said:

Again, to put  a more balanced slant on things, couldn't many of the above downsides be applied to many types of overseas (and domestic) investment here, and indeed the mere presence of foreigners here?  That said two wrongs don't make a right.

I very much doubt the removal of POGOs will enrich the lives of many/any Filipinos. 

Can you give some comparison examples?  Most businesses start out with a legal premise for operating.

I think what you have forgotten, and I forget to mention above, is that the POGO business model illegal at it's core. Most customers are in countries where gambling, online or otherwise, is illegal.  That is why China has a tremendous choke hold on the Philippines.  They can shut it all down almost overnight.  They already restrict the internet in their country so they could easily block these websites.  So can you imagine how the conversations go when Duterte talks to the Chinese?  "Stop bothering us about the Spratlys or we will shut down the POGOs and ruin your economy".  Of course you don't see that on the news, but think about it.

In the short term, removal of the POGOs will be very painful for Filipinos.  However, if the Philippines wants to move away from being corruption based, the sacrifice will have to be made.  The long term benefits will take many years.  Before the POGOs, the economy was growing nicely.  Duterte got the wool pulled over his eyes when he allowed POGOs.

[OnMyWay]

Here is a long, recent article on the POGOs, with a lot of info.

https://businessmirror.com.ph/2019/12/19/pogos-path-to-peril-or-prosperity-for-phl-property-sector/

[OnMyWay]

This opinion piece is fairly close to my thoughts on POGOs.

https://www.manilatimes.net/2020/02/16/opinion/columnists/topanalysis/pogos-tax-evading-sex-den-hosting-criminal-coddling-insufferables/686349/

[OnMyWay]

As predicted.  The beginning of the end, has begun.  China holds all the cards and can make this hard for the Philippines, or maybe easier.  However, they will not make it easier without getting something in return.

https://cnnphilippines.com/news/2020/2/25/china-starts-pogo-crackdown.html

CNN Philippines (February 25) – China said it started laying the groundwork to stop cybercrimes committed by Chinese nationals outside of China, including the Philippines.

“To crack down on cross-border telecom fraud, [China's] Ministry of Public Security has obtained a list of Chinese nationals suspected of committing long-term telecom fraud crimes abroad, who are classified as the persons prohibited from exiting China,” the Chinese Embassy in Manila said in a statement on Sunday. 

The reaction stemmed from a report that thousands of Chinese nationals illegally working for Philippines’ offshore gaming operators or POGO may have their passports revoked for supposedly being involved in illegal activities.

China then expressed its willingness to work with the Philippines in its fight against POGO amid issues on lost job opportunities for Filipinos, tax evasion and even national security. The Bureau of Internal Revenue earlier revealed over ₱27 billion worth of tax liabilities remain uncollected from the POGO sector.

RELATED: Defense chief fears POGOs may shift operations to spying

The embassy said the close coordination is aimed at protecting “the legitimate rights and interests of nationals of the two countries, and to promote the China-Philippines friendship and cooperation.”

A whistleblower revealed in a Senate probe last week a scheme that allowed Chinese nationals, mostly POGO workers, to enter the country with ease by paying immigration officers at the Ninoy Aquino International Airport a minimum of ₱10,000 in grease money.

READ: Witness: 90% of Immigration Bureau personnel involved in 'pastillas' scheme

This prompted President Rodrigo Duterte to relieve 19 Immigration employees from their duty pending investigation.

PAGCOR stopped accepting new applications for POGO licenses in August last year.

[scott h]

5 hours ago, OnMyWay said:

China holds all the cards

They not only hold all the cards, but they can deal from the bottom of the deck and there is nothing anyone can say about it 

[Snowy79]

If you want to see what POGO's can do to an area have a look at Sihanookville in Cambodia. The city has had billions of Chinese money pumped into it to upgrade the infrastructure.  New Malls, hospitals, roads and luxury apartments.  Real estate prices were going through the roof.  

Fast forward to today and the Cambodian government has banned POGOS in Cambodia.  Thousands of developments have been stopped mid flow, Chinese workers abandoned with no pay or passports.  The city is going to turn into a ghost city.  Pulling out has had a massive effect on the city.  

The Chinese money men don't care, they will just up sticks and move to Dubai, Thailand the Philippines etc.  They could use Cambodia as a threat to other areas about what will happen if they pull out.  Manila and Cebu property prices would crash if the POGO's relocated. 

[Marvin Boggs]

Are you saying the Chinese pulled out with no warning?  Or Cambodia had second thoughts and decided to shut down the POGOs.

[OnMyWay]

1 hour ago, Marvin Boggs said:

Are you saying the Chinese pulled out with no warning?  Or Cambodia had second thoughts and decided to shut down the POGOs.

It appears that Cambodia passed the law that ended it, last August, effective January 1.

[Snowy79]

2 hours ago, Marvin Boggs said:

Are you saying the Chinese pulled out with no warning?  Or Cambodia had second thoughts and decided to shut down the POGOs.

The Cambodians outlawed it so the Chinese took their money elsewhere. Pretty much threw the keys out the window and walked away.  Imagine a city losing the majority of it's income over night.  Plenty of locals would have borrowed on future earnings to buy vans, bars and restaurants and now have no income to repay the loans.