Rational Re-opening

[scott h]

Our Mayor (whose family owns a local hospital, his brother is a congressmen, his Dad is captain of one of the Barangays, sister is a Barangay counselor, in other words has no need of income )  is leading the charge here in metro Manila to extend the ecq for the ENTIRE Metro Manila. 

My question is, unless I am missing something, can there not be a happy medium to reopening?

My example is a nail salon. If both the customer and the salon worker wear masks (so in case they sneeze or cough they will not infect the other) and they both wash their hands (and the customers feet in case of a pedicure) and to be extra, extra careful the clippers and files can be sterilized. The same argument can be made for barbers (but a shave might still be out of the question)

How about the local hardware store (ours is operating out of his back door ) I both are wearing masks and customers are kept from mobbing the counter is the risk of infection unacceptably high? (I suppose eah item purchased kan be wiped down on the off chance that the virus is on a pvc or a bag of cement )

Our local tailor is closed. But if a person wants to get fitted for Barong, and again both are wearing masks and the tailor even sterilized his measuring tape  if the risk of infection unacceptable? 

Now as a customer if I entered any of these establishments and the staff was coughing, sneezing, had watery eyes and such I would take my business elsewhere. 

So again the question is, isn't there a logical, systematic way to reopen parts of the economy with out endangering the public as a whole?

I will answer my own question. Having spent over 30 years supervising soldiers, I know you have to lower your expectation to the lowest common denominator. Make all your instructions understandable to the dumbest guy. 

So in other words, the government can not trust its citizens to act responsibly 

[GeoffH]

21 minutes ago, scott h said:

So again the question is, isn't there a logical, systematic way to reopen parts of the economy with out endangering the public as a whole?

I will answer my own question. Having spent over 30 years supervising soldiers, I know you have to lower your expectation to the lowest common denominator. Make all your instructions understandable to the dumbest guy. 

So in other words, the government can not trust its citizens to act responsibly 

Some countries are trying to cautiously reopen their economies, at this point in time it remains to be seen if this is going to cause a surge in infections or whether current infection rates can be maintained at a managable level.

 

Excuse me for using an Australian example but motorcyclists here have been complaining that riding a motorbike by yourself is 'effective social distancing' and 'excercise' and as someone who enjoys riding a motorbike I'd generally agree with that.

So a state government here said "ok guys, you can go for a ride in your local area, up to 50 kilometers (30 miles) from home for exercise but you can't ride in groups".

So what happens?  A crap load of motorcyclists all decide to ride from the city up to the nearest mountain to the lookout up the top (via the twisty mountain road) and we ended up with several hundred bikes and motorcyclists gathered at a now crowded parking area at the top of the mountain *sigh* .

 

People in groups... suck.

[scott h]

25 minutes ago, GeoffH said:

A crap load of motorcyclists all

as I said people can not be trusted 

[Snowy79]

Rotational opening requires common sense.  I really should stop here but perfect examples are the tandom riding of motorcycles, single passengers in the back of a tricycle which is allowed in a lot of areas and swimming.

It's OK to sleep, eat etc with your partner but you can't have them sit on the rear of your motorcycle, just have checkpoints and if the person isn't related impound the bicycle, word will soon spread but life will be so much easier for people. 

As for the tricycles it's as good as an aerosol spreading the virus if a person is infected.  The face mask doesn't stop viruses unless it's medical grade and most are just bits of cloth, cut down t-shirts etc.  If you've ever followed a tricycle with a smoker in it you can smell them from 20ft away.  The breath of any passenger will be getting exhaled into the atmosphere and the tiny particles will be hitting air currents at about 30kph, pretty much like sneezing. 

The beach where I am is over 4km long, you can walk it to the shops but not jog or swim.  On an average day I see about 10 people, step off the path onto the beach  and you'll be whistled at by the police and threatened with arrest.  Walk down the main road or go to the market and there's literally hundreds of people milling about and that's OK. 

[Shady]

1 hour ago, scott h said:

isn't there a logical, systematic way to reopen parts of the economy with out endangering the public as a whole?

It looks like the plan will be re-open, but limit the amount of patrons.

 

[Mick]

My take on this is, while lockdown is on and liquor bans.... Easy life for those in charge, as there income will not change, and they will have contacts to get what ever they want when they want. 

[Tommy T.]

Take a look at this situation in South Korea:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/south-korea-backtracks-on-reopening-after-covid-19-cases-jump/ar-BB13OylK?li=BBnbfcL

>Despite recently reopening businesses amid an impressive decline in new coronavirus case, the South Korean government has issued a nationwide health advisory for bars and nightclubs to close down for 30 more days after health officials tracked 13 new cases to a single person who attended five nightclubs and bars in the country's capital city of Seoul.

"We believe we will have another community infection," said Vice Health Minister Kim Gang-lip at a Friday press briefing. "The spread took place in enclosed and crowded spaces. Transmission with no known source of infection can lead to a widespread cluster infection and that is why the government is not letting its guard down." 

The man in question had no symptoms when he visited the nightspots. He eventually tested positive on Wednesday and gained admittance to a hospital in Suwon, a city south of Seoul, according to the UPI wire service. 

Officials think he may have come in contact with over 1,500 people during his night out. City officials are now using CCTV and credit card records to help identify visitors and are encouraging them to self-isolate and immediately report any coronavirus symptoms to local hospitals. 

With a decline in new cases, South Korea has allowed places of worship, museums venues, recreational facilities and nightclubs to recently resume reopen. The country's high schools begin reopening next week and its lower schools will gradually reopen throughout May.

However, similar to the reopening plans of many U.S. states, South Korea has said it will pull back on and reverse reopenings if new cases emerge. 

While the number of coronavirus cases in South Korea originally exploded in late February and early March, the country's Ministry of Health worked hard to conduct rigorous contact tracing, contacting anyone who had attended venues where patients with confirmed cases of coronavirus had gone. Using a combination of interviews and cellphone surveillance, anyone in proximity to these patients and their neighbors were widely tested and all encouraged to self-quarantine.

Within the first two weeks of March, new daily cases in South Korea declined from 800 to fewer than 100, according to The Atlantic.<

South Korea seemed to have the virus at bay and controlled, so started to loosen up. Look at what just one infected person could cause? Now multiply this thousands of times in USA and other countries that are so eager to re-open as soon as possible?

[Tukaram (Tim)]

Depends on how you expect your people to behave. We had a liquor ban in Iloilo. When they mayor relaxed the ban, he gave a strong warning that if there are any infractions he would reinstate the ban.  It was all pretty simple - no parties, no fiestas, no drinking in public...

There were so many alcohol related incidents that first night, that the ban was reinstated within 18 hours.  The leaders do not think they can trust the people to behave properly... and they may be right. 

[Tommy T.]

1 minute ago, Tukaram (Tim) said:

The leaders do not think they can trust the people to behave properly... and they may be right. 

I agree...

Common sense seems to be slowly vanishing. The leaders give an inch and the crowd takes a mile.

I think there seems to be few who can be trusted to use "common" sense... Here or in USA and other countries...And then the "masses" wonder why there are so many regulations? Duhhhh...

[scott h]

13 minutes ago, Tukaram (Tim) said:

When they mayor relaxed the ban,

have you seen all the stories of liquor smuggling? Officials, police, ambulances even hearses transporting bodies