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10 minutes ago, Snowy79 said:

Hot off the press and peer reviewed the case mortality rates for Covid. As I'm sure as most suspected it varies between locations but throwing in the fact that there is evidence of false diagnosis I wonder if the fatality rate is even lower. 

You can 'wonder if it is' but that's not what the sheet you pasted says, rather it says that in low case areas (where presumably the virus is under good control and where the hospital system is not overwhelmed) the case fatality rate is lower and in areas where the virus is more common fatalities are higher.

And that the CFR is somewhere between 0.0% and 1.6% (which is what I said about 3 months ago) and currently sitting at about 0.27% (which is a bit meaningless because it varies with location, case load, population demographics and local medical services).

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There is truth in what you write.  A while ago I googled to see who I might know (celebrities and such) that died of Covid.  I was astonished to see that all the dead were victims of "complications" o

Well, guys, here's a view from a guy who is 72 years old and has diabetes,.  I'm chugging along pretty well for my age: still lift weights and work out, AIC is below 6.0.  But if I catch COVID, and th

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2 hours ago, Jay Smith said:

I think that after doing some research, even if you don't like my links, you will find that the  posters claims are slightly exaggerated. :shades:

I guess you are referring to me, the OP, the original poster.  Did I make claims?  I made observations, and the gist of it was we don't really know who or what to believe.  My observations were mostly about the Philippines.

2 hours ago, Jay Smith said:

The National Academy of Sciences has an article on Covid mortality that the poster and any readers who are curious about the true mortality impacts might consider interesting.

 https://www.pnas.org/content/117/36/22035

I don't see high relevance in that article, to anything I said.  Are you referring to "In the U.S., the average age of a Covid death is 78.  The normal average age of death is 78." ? The link you gave is to their study "if" one million died.  They also did a study of "if" 250,000 died, a more realistic number.  If you use the 1 million, they say the impact is 2.9 years on life expectancy, for 2020.  If you use 250,000, the impact is one year, for 2020.  The 1 million is obviously not going to happen.  So if the average age is 78 now, 2020 might be 77, if you use their projections.

https://vcresearch.berkeley.edu/news/demographers-put-covid-19-death-toll-perspective

That being said, I would take anything coming from UC Berkeley with a grain of salt.  That article may be perfectly fine, but the school in general is full of left wing brainwashing staff.  I would never let my child go there, even if it were free.

3 hours ago, Jay Smith said:

Also regarding worldwide poverty levels...Worldbank.org has some really good data. 

https://blogs.worldbank.org/opendata/updated-estimates-impact-covid-19-global-poverty-effect-new-data

I was directly quoting the WHO high official who came out with the new anti-lock down policy, but I did get it wrong.  I said poverty had doubled but what he said was it would double by the end of 2020.

The Worldbank figure is a projection of "extreme" poverty.  I'm not sure if that is what the WHO guy was referring too.  "Extreme" poverty is making less than $1.90 per day.

The lowest, middle and upper middle economic classes, who have to work everyday, are the hardest hit by extreme economic lockdown measures.  Not nearly as much immediate impact on upper classes and retirees.

I'm not a big fan of these "World" organizations.  I'm not sure they are trustworthy or unbiased anymore.  You know who owed the most money to World Bank, as of 2017.  China.

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1 hour ago, OnMyWay said:

You know who owed the most money to World Bank, as of 2017.  China.

Considering the size of China's economy, I wouldn't doubt it. Don't know what that has to do with the quality of the information. Also, I don't understand what you would have against World organizations except that their views might not match those of some US political organizations. Considering the current political climate in the US, I'd much rather trust information from one of those 'world' organizations than anything coming out of the States. I'm in the Philippines, and one big reason for that is American politics.

 

1 hour ago, OnMyWay said:

the school in general is full of left wing brainwashing staff.  I would never let my child go there, even if it were free.

And this just makes me scratch my head. Sure, Berkley is a liberal college and it has been since....forever. How could that possibly impact the quality of, say, the Berkley Research Department (which they are famous for), Math, or Technology departments? unless, once again, this has to do with a political position. Berkley is one of the oldest research colleges in the western states if not in the entire USA and is ranked #30 for colleges across the globe. If my daughter got a free ticket to study there, I'd be buying her a plane ticket in a heartbeat.

 

1 hour ago, OnMyWay said:

My observations were mostly about the Philippines.

No, your observations were about the USA, as is evidenced by your specific referral to deaths in the USA. And your implication in that statement was that the average age of death from Covid in the US and the general average of death are the same, so why worry.

The reality is that out of the 203,043 deaths directly attributable to Covid 19 infection in the US through Oct 14, 2020, 69,394 were people aged 45 to 64.

Thats more than a third. 

 

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1 hour ago, Jay Smith said:

Considering the size of China's economy, I wouldn't doubt it. Don't know what that has to do with the quality of the information. Also, I don't understand what you would have against World organizations except that their views might not match those of some US political organizations. Considering the current political climate in the US, I'd much rather trust information from one of those 'world' organizations than anything coming out of the States. I'm in the Philippines, and one big reason for that is American politics.

 

And this just makes me scratch my head. Sure, Berkley is a liberal college and it has been since....forever. How could that possibly impact the quality of, say, the Berkley Research Department (which they are famous for), Math, or Technology departments? unless, once again, this has to do with a political position. Berkley is one of the oldest research colleges in the western states if not in the entire USA and is ranked #30 for colleges across the globe. If my daughter got a free ticket to study there, I'd be buying her a plane ticket in a heartbeat.

 

No, your observations were about the USA, as is evidenced by your specific referral to deaths in the USA. And your implication in that statement was that the average age of death from Covid in the US and the general average of death are the same, so why worry.

The reality is that out of the 203,043 deaths directly attributable to Covid 19 infection in the US through Oct 14, 2020, 69,394 were people aged 45 to 64.

Thats more than a third. 

 

I could continue the discussion on all those points, but I won't.  We all can believe what we want to believe, and act accordingly.

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Jay, asking respectfully....... please lighten up. :smile:

You are welcome to share your ideas and opinions that's what a forum is for. You may not attack other members. Please review the simple forum rules. Thanks for understanding. 

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13 hours ago, hk blues said:

The fast food companies here are big business so have some clout.

Acutely the places I go are not fast food at all. The rules are from my understanding or at least in Cebu city that once you are seated  then masks and shields not required obviously hard to drink or eat with that. 

The staff are still wearing the required set up.  My statement I guess in another post is in reality we are all slowly letting our  guard down or moving to what was once normal which I think it should be.

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On 10/19/2020 at 12:26 AM, Jollygoodfellow said:

Beats me why in reality I can go to a resturaunt and as soon as I have signed in and given details I no longer need mask or face shield. 

The point being where have they been, with who, how long without a mask, etc.  If a person tries to enter a restaurant without mask and/or shield, I as either a patron or owner would assume the person for whatever reason was choosing not to wear a mask and/or shield when out in public.  That is not the person I would want if I were the owner or customer.  

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10 hours ago, Jollygoodfellow said:

My statement I guess in another post is in reality we are all slowly letting our  guard down or moving to what was once normal which I think it should be.

Are you saying we should no longer be wearing masks and practicing social distancing? 

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10 hours ago, Mike J said:

The point being where have they been, with who, how long without a mask, etc.  If a person tries to enter a restaurant without mask and/or shield, I as either a patron or owner would assume the person for whatever reason was choosing not to wear a mask and/or shield when out in public.  That is not the person I would want if I were the owner or customer.  

My friend owns 2 restos and one is across the street from City Hall in Dinalupihan.  He said they usually pop in once a day to check that the rules are being followed.  He has 50 % of his tables stored and you can't sit across from someone.  You need a mask to enter, but once you sit down, you are allowed to take if off.  At his other new resto in Balanga, same rules, but they don't check him everyday.

In California, the governors office  put out guidelines that you should put your mask back on between bites.  A few weeks before, they said you should not take your mask on and off a lot, which means touching it a lot.  Typical.

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2 hours ago, OnMyWay said:

In California, the governors office  put out guidelines that you should put your mask back on between bites. 

I don't know about everyone else, but that seems farcical and indeed increases the risk of infection surely as much more face touching will be required. 

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