[2020-10-31] 13A Visa Intramuros Appication BOI Experience (Initial, with potential scam details)

[Shol]

Hi there.

The purpose of this post is to give anyone reading an insightful, hands-on/modern experience on what to expect when they visit BOI, Main Office in Intramuros, Magellanes Dr for obtaining a 13A Marriage Visa. I will not go over the 13A Visa process but just focus on the experience and thoughts on what to expect and to help those trying or looking to apply.

Appointment - We arrived at the big, old building about an hour before our scheduled interview time. (Interview is secured online, 3 working days before you want to go, but you have to be fast and book it within the first 5 minutes or they "sell out" lol, see (http://e-services.immigration.gov.ph). It seems like this website is separate for the immigration.gov.ph one which everyone tells you to visit, but hardly ever works.  Our time spent for this entire "ordeal" was approximately 4 hours. 

They checked our transaction slip on my phone, no issues so "probably" no need to print as I forgot. They seemed to remember us when we came back in so didn't have to do it all over again. They validated that my companion was my wife and Petioner but that was it. There doesn't to be any sort of organized appointment. You get let in and then you simply have to find your way to counter 20 (which is on the transaction slip) and then figure things out from there.

Notes - Lots of action here despite the limited appointments. Many apparent fixers outside and notary service signs. (I did not get approached by anyone, but I could sense that had I shown some general "indecision" this would have happened pretty fast :)) Building is very old and run down lots of garbage and you generally want to get inside as soon as possible.   

Inside (Counter 20 Area) - Counter 20 is pretty much straight inside; there were gaps on when people were at the window but after getting settled you need to sort of be assertive to get served since it is still quite hectic. You will notice a lot of fixer types with massive amounts of folders and ID's, some wearing "BI Accredited" shirts; I didn't experience them other than to get directed towards the "helpdesk" which is situated near the stairs to have my documents "validated" before starting the official process. We got to talk to one of the ladies working there finally and were told she needed to eat lunch, and would look after us in a bit. Was a bit hesitant to hand over our documents to her but we did it. After about 20 minutes we were called over and my wife was told that our stuff looked good but we needed to "notarize" the joint letter and a "new" document that isn't mentioned anywhere on the BOI website, called an "Affidavit of Guarantee with Authenticity". We were informed multiple times that the official website online was "not updated" with these new changes. Due to social distancing, and language barriers, I decided to let my wife handle this and one thing of of note with mask/shield on and the noise, it was extremely hard to hear anyone talking and this contributed to what happened next.

Scam #1 Alert - So we were told that, contrary to the website we needed to notarize the joint letter and affidavit document, but we would be "helped". Honestly, I wouldn't have done this but they told her that it was 900 or so PHP and that we couldn't "proceed to the next steps" without doing that, which I believe is false since there are details online that there is no need to have any notarization on that as of 2016, and never heard of this affidavit before. Just decided to do it. Ugh.

So we are led outside and down a side street into a row of notary republics pretty much setup for this purpose and they proceeded to "redo" our joint letter, create this "Affidavit of Guarantee with Authenticity" letter and have us fill out this questionnaire which we were told now "replaces" having to do the interview. (Pretty much, what they would have asked in the interview) I just followed my wife’s lead but yes, was a bit nervous that this was not only perhaps a scam, but that I might get extorted, robbed or even brutally murdered. Fortunately, none of that happened :)) All of the documents were notarized and we were charged 950 PHP and then walked back into BOI. I realized at this point, this was a big scam setup as I saw other foreigners there doing the same nonsense, being led to their “doom” by a non-BI “helper”. I would like to hear replies to those who follow me on what happens here if this is challenged, since my wife was not given any option; do that or you can't continue. I suspect that the questionnaire and whatever would have been available regardless.

Upon returning we were told to wait and she was happy to provide us with "free" fasteners for our folders since we didn't have any, LOL. When we were waiting my wife asked "how long will this take" and then that started our “criminal” lady to engage us with scam attempt #2. (I really wanted to snapshot this person’s picture but my wife was a bit nervous for me to do that.)

Scam #2 Alert - So my wife was asked despite it being on our forms, where we lived, and we were told that the process will take 2-3+ months and that will have to come back 3-4 times for everything. (This turned out to be false, at least so far) and that if we wanted, she could take care of it all for her, "between you and me" for a massive amount of PHP. She was "positively scripted" by saying how far we lived and what a hassle, but despite that my wife declined and we were then moved onto the next sections for what I assume would be the regular "non scam" processing.

Notes - Very hard to communicate, loud and masks and shields. Was appalled that despite all the crackdowns on corruption, how flagrant and easy it's attempted here. I suspect that most of the employees are aware, but not all are involved but since they want their jobs, it's passively accepted. No one stops the herd of foreigners being led out to get ripped off for these unrequired notary services. (I would happily love to be contradicted on this one as a general rule, but I doubt it.)

As of Oct 31st, 2020 I would recommend:

• Buying your own fasteners and 2 folders, 1 for both the 13a/ACR.
• Might want to notarize your joint letter. At this point, I am still not 100% sure if this new one, the "Affidavit of Guarantee with Authenticity" is an actual requirement or simply part of this scam. I will update this post when I get more info.  I mean I don't think it's required but why not just avoid having hassles, right? I can upload a copy of the document that was provided to me at the notary scam area.
• Make sure to print your ENTIRE passport, front to back. This was a requirement, I read somewhere else, and can confirm that had I not had this, they would have ripped me off for another 500 or so PHP for overpriced copies.
• Avoid interaction with the helpdesk and head straight through and talk directly to those who would organize your documents; I believe now that if my wife had done that; the whole "notary" scam might not have happened.
• Actually avoid interaction / discussion with anyone that's not behind an actual/window counter. LOL. Well you can ask the guard how to find the CR I suppose :)
• Wear your masks and shields well, it’s little wonder this building has had a covid cases, there is very little social distancing and people and employees are really close together in rooms, and areas, and there are lot of careless coughers amidst the confusion and repetitive, redundant challenges faced by a lot of folks.
• From my perspective, you "should not" have to come back to do biometrics or anything else as is indicated on some other blogs online, as well as identified here by one of our villain employees.   I am not sure if there is a cutoff for that as in time of day dependent or whatever, but I can say for sure that what was communicated to us at the time was done to entice us to take up the "fix" offer to have it done faster, etc.   Once I progress I will update this post to reflect my current reality.

Counter 214,12/15.Cashier - I believe this is where our "BI Clearance Certificate" was provisioned and then we proceeded to counter 12 (or 15) for another document check, then to a cashier right next to that. I paid a total of 11040 PHP so far, and not sure if there will be any more charges at this point. I was told that the cost is determined by "Immigration Status" and the last date of arrival; whatever that means. I am currently on a Balikbayan- visa until next year. So maybe that helped or perhaps upon release, will be hammered with yet another onslaught of nonsense PHP charges :)

We were then bounced back up to 214 to see if we can do biometrics and we were told yes so we proceeded down to counter 44 where i waited and was finally called to 42 to do the fingerprint, picture and signature. (And had 2-3 fixers move past me to do the biometrics with their "clients" first , lol)

I have added a small rough floorplan (done from memory lol) to give you an idea of the main floor layout and where to know important spots.  On the second floor, you really only go to 214, and it's a right up the stairs, pretty much to the end of the hallway.

Then we went back to counter 20 and submitted everything and I suppose for the time being we were done. The guy there said the approval would take "max 2 months' but we shall see. LOL. We were also told that the ACR card would be available once the 13a was approved, but no specific time frame given.  Just call their general support # to inquire.

Notes - So be careful as surprisingly there are a lot of potential issues/scams that will either cost you money or create unrequired hassles.  Please respond and add your contributions to this post to help others with their future experiences.  I will continue to update this post with any new information on reality as it happens with my own application as well other folk's experiences.  Very hard to sustain official processes versus fake ones especially when you get different answers all over the place and the official website is horribly unreliable. (immigration.gov.ph - Getting a URL rejected as we speak.)

Thanks and hope it helps!

Edited October 31, 2020 by Shol
More details :)

[Dave Hounddriver]

Thanks for the report.  It has me thinking, if it was me I would get a lawyer to do the whole thing and just pay the price.  Costs a lot more though.  Good to hear you got it to work for you.

[Shol]

Thanks.  Just can really feel how it is to kind of end up "floundering" so I want to help people avoid that.

And I don't know or think for sure I am out of the woods just yet.  Need to get it approved and stuff and who knows what shenanigan's is to come haha :)

I am sure that a lot of the fixers there would have been happy to be appointed as my "lawyer" :)

Edited October 31, 2020 by Shol

[Freebie]

Good report and despite all the nonsense being said about no one tolerating " a whiff of corruption", it seems to exist and is tolerated in many dealings and interactions with govt people. Fortunately theres been some progress in the country and now the driving licence renewals are generally "fixer free" even tho 20 years back , LTO ofcies were swarmed by fixers.

Phil Health is relatively fixer free and BIR is also a fixer free environment.

[Shol]

I was really sad and kind of surprised to experience that I did yesterday.  But in retrospect with the government and political situation here currently, perhaps I should not have been so much.

How can there really be no "whiffs of corruption" when there's obviously corruption all the way up the food chain?

[OnMyWay]

Nice report, good detail, which all who know me here, know I appreciate!

I'm very surprised at some of it.  Have things gone downhill due to extra "precautions" made for Covid?  Have these resulted in people taking advantage? I think the lesson here is to avoid Intramuros.

I did the first part of my 13a at Intramuros in 2017 because it could not be done at any offices in my area.  Now it can.  I can't recall any major issues.  The helpdesk was helpful, that is all.  Had to buy two folders, but they were reasonable, at a desk inside.  Now I have seen that people know to bring those folders.  I may have made some copies, at the room near that small resto.  Reasonable.  Never had to go outside the premises.

The people walking around with big stacks of folders are not fixers.  Most are authorized travel agents doing extensions for customers.

I did the second half of my 13a in Balanga when they just started doing them.  It was great.  Small office, maybe 4 people working there.  Highly recommended.

[Freebie]

2 hours ago, Shol said:

 

How can there really be no "whiffs of corruption" when there's obviously corruption all the way up the food chain?

There are many contradictions in the Philippines....too many to list here...but you have uncovered/enjoyed one of the better ones.

More fun in the Philippines diba ?

 

 

 

 

 

[Shol]

1 hour ago, OnMyWay said:

Nice report, good detail, which all who know me here, know I appreciate!

I'm very surprised at some of it.  Have things gone downhill due to extra "precautions" made for Covid?  Have these resulted in people taking advantage? I think the lesson here is to avoid Intramuros.

I did the first part of my 13a at Intramuros in 2017 because it could not be done at any offices in my area.  Now it can.  I can't recall any major issues.  The helpdesk was helpful, that is all.  Had to buy two folders, but they were reasonable, at a desk inside.  Now I have seen that people know to bring those folders.  I may have made some copies, at the room near that small resto.  Reasonable.  Never had to go outside the premises.

The people walking around with big stacks of folders are not fixers.  Most are authorized travel agents doing extensions for customers.

I did the second half of my 13a in Balanga when they just started doing them.  It was great.  Small office, maybe 4 people working there.  Highly recommended.

 

I was surprised as well.   In covid times at least if you live around Manila, not much options. I actually inquired since it was difficult to get an appointment but all of the sites would require you to go through Manila pretty much; at least partially.  We used the lady near the restos for some copies later and it was fine.   But I read on another blog about someone who had to pay 450 PHP to duplicate their passport; so the assumption is that it was with one of notary services nearby since I saw those options when I was there.

I really hope to hear from others and their stories after as well since I don't have all the details or specifics since we really wanted to simply get it done efficiently but it was daunting being there with so many in covid times with those contraptions on our heads :)

I appreciate your kind words and thoughts, and really just hope for the best for anyone else has to go through this, since at least currently for most it would still seem to be the best option since leaving/re-entering for a BB is not possible at the moment....

 

[OnMyWay]

1 hour ago, Shol said:

since at least currently for most it would still seem to be the best option since leaving/re-entering for a BB is not possible at the moment....

Yes, they may be experiencing a rush on 13A!

[Jack Peterson]

25 minutes ago, OnMyWay said:

 yes, they may be experiencing a rush on 13A!

 Which, is exactly what they (BI) want. That way, they can keep the Tourist Visas as Tourist and do away with this 3 year Long term issue