Shady Posted January 16, 2021 Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) COVID-19 vaccination: 23 elderly people dead after Pfizer shot in Norway https://www.businesstoday.in/current/world/covid-19-vaccination-23-elderly-people-dead-after-pfizer-shot-in-norway/story/428119.html Quote Norway COVID-19 immunisation: The Norwegian Institute of Public Health has cautioned against vaccinating elderly people above 80 years of age saying those with a short life span may not benefit much from the jab In a worrying development, 23 elderly people died within a short time of receiving their first coronavirus vaccine shots in Norway. However, there is no confirmation yet if there is direct correlation between the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 jab and these deaths. Although a direct correlation between the Pfizer jab and these deaths is yet to be established, experts have said that 13 out of 23 people who died showed common side effects of mRNA vaccines such as diarrhea, nausea and fever. The Norwegian Institute of Public Health has cautioned against vaccinating elderly people above 80 years of age saying those with a short life span may not benefit much from the jab. The Norwegian regulator further told Bloomberg, "For those with the most severe frailty, even relatively mild vaccine side effects can have serious consequences." Pfizer and BioNTech are working with the Norwegian authorities to investigate the deaths in Norway. According to Pfizer, the regulator discovered "the number of incidents so far is not alarming and in line with expectations". more at link Edited January 16, 2021 by Dave Hounddriver add text of the story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry P Posted January 16, 2021 Author Posted January 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, Shady said: COVID-19 vaccination: 23 elderly people dead after Pfizer shot in Norway https://www.businesstoday.in/current/world/covid-19-vaccination-23-elderly-people-dead-after-pfizer-shot-in-norway/story/428119.html Read this earlier shady Antivax lunatics have jumped right on it. Headline is sensational get into the details its not surprising. However they are getting mileage out of it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy79 Posted January 16, 2021 Posted January 16, 2021 21 minutes ago, TerryP said: Read this earlier shady Antivax lunatics have jumped right on it. Headline is sensational get into the details its not surprising. However they are getting mileage out of it There may be a bit of truth in the vaccine affecting older people and I'm sure limitted tests have been carried out before the vaccine was given to those above 80. My previous partner in the UK had worked in care homes for a good twenty years and the last ten as senior manager in a few private and public care homes. I can still recall her saying it's flu vaccine time of the year, watch my deaths go up. Every death was recorded as beds were blocked and a full care home meant additional bonuses. She'd tongue in cheek say " It'll be a poor pay month." She had all the records to prove that since the introduction of the flu vaccine there was a definite increase in deaths amongst those that were over 70 and had underlying health conditions. In her words the vaccine exasperated the ilnesses. She paid close attention to who received the injections and obviously monitored them daily. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry P Posted January 16, 2021 Author Posted January 16, 2021 9 minutes ago, Snowy79 said: There may be a bit of truth in the vaccine affecting older people and I'm sure limitted tests have been carried out before the vaccine was given to those above 80. My previous partner in the UK had worked in care homes for a good twenty years and the last ten as senior manager in a few private and public care homes. I can still recall her saying it's flu vaccine time of the year, watch my deaths go up. Every death was recorded as beds were blocked and a full care home meant additional bonuses. She'd tongue in cheek say " It'll be a poor pay month." She had all the records to prove that since the introduction of the flu vaccine there was a definite increase in deaths amongst those that were over 70 and had underlying health conditions. In her words the vaccine exasperated the ilnesses. She paid close attention to who received the injections and obviously monitored them daily. Devil if you do devil if you don't. How many would have survived had they caught the real thing? How many more would have died had they not received the vaccine. Medical science has advanced dramatically over the last few decades keeping more and more people alive who would have otherwise died but are no less frail is that a factor What's the option? Vaccinate the rest of the population who are not going to be adversely affected by the virus or the vaccine and keep the vunerable locked up until we've achieved some kind of herd immunity The statistics show that 88%of deaths are among the older and those with comorbities. The figures would look nice keeping them locked up in a sealed room. I wonder how many would survive that. Better still let them wander about in the general population without being vaccinated and see what happens. I think their freedom would be short lived literally Nothing is a perfect fit in this situation we're in. What's happening is a compromise reached by eminent scientists as to the vaccine programme. Let's get on with it for Christ's sake and emerge from this mess 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Explorer Posted January 16, 2021 Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Snowy79 said: My previous partner in the UK had worked in care homes for a good twenty years and the last ten as senior manager in a few private and public care homes. I can still recall her saying it's flu vaccine time of the year, watch my deaths go up. Every death was recorded as beds were blocked and a full care home meant additional bonuses. She'd tongue in cheek say " It'll be a poor pay month." She had all the records to prove that since the introduction of the flu vaccine there was a definite increase in deaths amongst those that were over 70 and had underlying health conditions. In her words the vaccine exasperated the ilnesses. She paid close attention to who received the injections and obviously monitored them daily. I am 60+ and never took flu vaccine, also not on any prescription medicine, nurses at dr office always raise eyebrow because in this country everybody over 60 suppose to be on some scheduled medicine (pushed by the pharmaceutical industry)... "Targeting the elderly (individuals aged 65 years) for influenza vaccination may not decrease hospitalization or mortality rates in this population, according to a study published in Annals of Internal Medicine." https://www.infectiousdiseaseadvisor.com/home/topics/respiratory/influenza/increasing-vaccination-rates-for-the-flu-in-elderly-people-did-not-decrease-death-rate/ Edited January 16, 2021 by Explorer 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry P Posted January 16, 2021 Author Posted January 16, 2021 2 hours ago, Explorer said: I am 60+ and never took flu vaccine, also not on any prescription medicine, nurses at dr office always raise eyebrow because in this country everybody over 60 suppose to be on some scheduled medicine (pushed by the pharmaceutical industry)... "Targeting the elderly (individuals aged 65 years) for influenza vaccination may not decrease hospitalization or mortality rates in this population, according to a study published in Annals of Internal Medicine." https://www.infectiousdiseaseadvisor.com/home/topics/respiratory/influenza/increasing-vaccination-rates-for-the-flu-in-elderly-people-did-not-decrease-death-rate/ Point taken Solution please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum Support Mike J Posted January 16, 2021 Forum Support Posted January 16, 2021 6 hours ago, Explorer said: I am 60+ and never took flu vaccine, also not on any prescription medicine, nurses at dr office always raise eyebrow because in this country everybody over 60 suppose to be on some scheduled medicine (pushed by the pharmaceutical industry)... "Targeting the elderly (individuals aged 65 years) for influenza vaccination may not decrease hospitalization or mortality rates in this population, according to a study published in Annals of Internal Medicine." https://www.infectiousdiseaseadvisor.com/home/topics/respiratory/influenza/increasing-vaccination-rates-for-the-flu-in-elderly-people-did-not-decrease-death-rate/ The study is indeed thought provoking. This study covers what we would call the "old flu" and I think most experts, and the numbers show, that covid is more lethal so I suspect there will be a study in the next year or so to see just how effective the new vaccine works on various age groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Explorer Posted January 16, 2021 Posted January 16, 2021 14 hours ago, GeoffH said: The vaccine protects the vaccinated person from serious disease (no matter which Covid vaccine you get) however some people will still catch Covid even after they're vaccinated (but they won't get seriously sick and their viral load will be a lot smaller). What is unclear right now (because the safety testing wasn't testing for that) is whether these few people can pass on the virus. You keep saying it but it does not make it true. Yes, the viral load in the lower respiratory tract is smaller but the vaccine cannot reduce the viral load in the upper respiratory tract and we all know from where the virus is transmitted, so for this reason even for the vaccinated, mask/social dist/PCR test is required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffH Posted January 17, 2021 Posted January 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Explorer said: You keep saying it but it does not make it true. Yes, the viral load in the lower respiratory tract is smaller but the vaccine cannot reduce the viral load in the upper respiratory tract and we all know from where the virus is transmitted, so for this reason even for the vaccinated, mask/social dist/PCR test is required. The vaccines we have now cannot reduce the viral load in the upper respiratory tract but there are vaccines in development which are expected to be able to do so because they will be administered Intranasal and/or orally. It is true I haven't made the distinction between the current interim vaccines and the medium term ones that will become available in late 2021 / early 2022 but we were to be fair talking about medium term outcomes such as vaccine passports.s And I maintain that is is still unclear to what degree a person vaccinated with one of the current high efficacy intramuscular vaccines will be infectious. There is evidence of reduced viral load in the upper respiratory tract in vaccinated individuals compared to the control group (although not absent) which translates to (on average) less serious infections (and possibly less infections). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Explorer Posted January 17, 2021 Posted January 17, 2021 2 hours ago, Mike J said: The study is indeed thought provoking. This study covers what we would call the "old flu" and I think most experts, and the numbers show, that covid is more lethal so I suspect there will be a study in the next year or so to see just how effective the new vaccine works on various age groups. Covid is more lethal because it is new and our body don't know how to handle it yet. The Spanish Flu was very lethal, today's Flu contain traces of it but still not so lethal anymore. H1N1 is a strain of the Spanish flu but the 2009 pandemic was much less lethal. Covid will probably take the same path. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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