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Just now, TerryP said:

If they had stated the parameters they base their figures on and how they selected the study participants it would be more credible. Same as the efficacy tests of the vaccine since day 1. Russian and Chinese vaccines are being treated with massive skepticism because they did not conform to internationally recognised standards. Why should this report be given any credibility

It's a newspaper article, Terry, not a medical journal.  I have no dog in this fight so I won't be offended if you decide to stick it in your pipe and smoke it! :smile:

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I like some of what our orange guy has done but the US must also recognize, support and respect our friends. Canada and GB are true proven friends.

Never fear the Pfizer vaccine, maker of Viagra.  It they can raise the dead they can surely heal the sick! 

Just announced here in the UK Oxford/Astra zenika phase 3 results Up to 90% effective Another newsfeed I found said the cost per vaccine for Pfizer and moderna would be around 35 USD wh

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Just now, hk blues said:

It's a newspaper article, Terry, not a medical journal.  I have no dog in this fight so I won't be offended if you decide to stick it in your pipe and smoke it! :smile:

Yeah. Another example of the press gobbing off without knowing the full facts.

Never mind it sells newspapers or advertising space

No offence taken

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Just now, TerryP said:

Yeah. Another example of the press gobbing off without knowing the full facts.

Never mind it sells newspapers or advertising space

No offence taken

Not knowing the full facts and not printing them because 99.9% of readers would get bored are 2 different things, Terry.  There is nothing unusual about a newspaper taking the salient points from a lengthier document and printing them - in fact, it's pretty much always how it's done.  The fact that you are one of 0.1% of people who want the detail is of no interest to them. 

We agree on one thing - it's much too early to say which approach is right and which is wrong.  Unfortunately, it will be too late for the UK as we aren't adopting a wait and see approach.  Again, It's an approach I agree with.

 

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9 minutes ago, hk blues said:

Not knowing the full facts and not printing them because 99.9% of readers would get bored are 2 different things, Terry.  There is nothing unusual about a newspaper taking the salient points from a lengthier document and printing them - in fact, it's pretty much always how it's done.  The fact that you are one of 0.1% of people who want the detail is of no interest to them. 

We agree on one thing - it's much too early to say which approach is right and which is wrong.  Unfortunately, it will be too late for the UK as we aren't adopting a wait and see approach.  Again, It's an approach I agree with.

 

It could be said I've manipulated what has been said in this report to suit my own agenda. Probably true.

Flip side is some antivaxxer with half a brain could do the same and they do in many cases. Influencing some of the 99.9% who just read the salient points.

To my mind it's just irresponsible opinionated journalism not to at least make some reference as to the criteria of the the survey

We're not dealing with a report on a road test of the latest land rover

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On 1/18/2021 at 5:22 PM, Snowy79 said:

I'm still hoping for them to spend more money finding out who is more succeptible to Covid.  A few small investigations have shown that certain people are predisposed to serious Covid depending on their DNA, but as there's no money in finding out who not to vaccinate I can't see many pharmaceutical companies spending too much time and effort trying to cut their customer base.

As for the trying to keep healthy that's the option I'll try first.  Of the fit guys I know that have died over the years they tend to have been sudden, heart attacks, blood clots etc.  The unfit ones tend to have suffered strokes and not died.  I'd rather not wake up than be stuck in a chair staring at a clock with someone wiping my butt for the next 20yrs. :1927_: :whistling:

I don't know about DNA but many studies are indicating that vitamin D deficiency is major contributor to covid19 (and flu). Vitamin D is produced by sun exposure, the closer to the equator you live, the easier it is for your body to synthesize vitamin D from the sun's rays all year round, this may explain why flu season is mainly during the winter and more people are impacted in north america/europe. If you tell someone to take vitamins they treat you like a nutcase, I guess some are inadvertently became shills to the "pharmaceutical industrial complex"... but why should I care? I will take my gains from the pharma industry, have a nice juicy steak dinner tonight and of course will not forget to take my vitamins (vitamin D and C daily, zinc every 2 days).

"New Study Found 80% of COVID-19 Patients Were Vitamin D Deficient

The study also found that people who had both COVID-19 and lower vitamin D levels also had a higher number of inflammatory markers such as ferritin and D-dimer, which have been linked to poor COVID-19 outcomes. A different study found that COVID-19 patients who had adequate vitamin D levels had a 51.5 percent lower risk of dying from the disease and a significant reduced risk for complications."

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/new-study-found-80-percent-of-covid-19-patients-were-vitamin-d-deficient

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1 hour ago, Explorer said:

I don't know about DNA but many studies are indicating that vitamin D deficiency is major contributor to covid19 (and flu). Vitamin D is produced by sun exposure, the closer to the equator you live, the easier it is for your body to synthesize vitamin D from the sun's rays all year round, this may explain why flu season is mainly during the winter and more people are impacted in north america/europe. If you tell someone to take vitamins they treat you like a nutcase, I guess some are inadvertently became shills to the "pharmaceutical industrial complex"... but why should I care? I will take my gains from the pharma industry, have a nice juicy steak dinner tonight and of course will not forget to take my vitamins (vitamin D and C daily, zinc every 2 days).

"New Study Found 80% of COVID-19 Patients Were Vitamin D Deficient

The study also found that people who had both COVID-19 and lower vitamin D levels also had a higher number of inflammatory markers such as ferritin and D-dimer, which have been linked to poor COVID-19 outcomes. A different study found that COVID-19 patients who had adequate vitamin D levels had a 51.5 percent lower risk of dying from the disease and a significant reduced risk for complications."

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/new-study-found-80-percent-of-covid-19-patients-were-vitamin-d-deficient

Let's look into this healthline news item from October 27 2020

In the first paragraph. "Some information may be out of date. Visit our coronavirus hub and follow our live updates"

Nope!! Nothing there. Oh!! Hang on there it is. Advertisements from vitamin D manufacturers and retailers.

Back to the news item

"Of all covid patients (216 in total??? Hardly comprehensive) 82% were vitamin D deficient

British medical journal places more than 70% of all age groups below ideal vitamin levels 27% deficient. Read into that what you will

Not going to bother with the rest

Closing statement on news item by Dr Hans Konrad Biesalski (former professor) former? How's that work then? However

"It looks like patients with a poor vitamin D status may have more severe covid 19, but the new study didn't find that relationship

I'm still in the queue with my lager and ciggys

 

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4 hours ago, Explorer said:

I don't know about DNA but many studies are indicating that vitamin D deficiency is major contributor to covid19 (and flu). Vitamin D is produced by sun exposure, the closer to the equator you live, the easier it is for your body to synthesize vitamin D from the sun's rays all year round, this may explain why flu season is mainly during the winter and more people are impacted in north america/europe. If you tell someone to take vitamins they treat you like a nutcase, I guess some are inadvertently became shills to the "pharmaceutical industrial complex"... but why should I care? I will take my gains from the pharma industry, have a nice juicy steak dinner tonight and of course will not forget to take my vitamins (vitamin D and C daily, zinc every 2 days).

"New Study Found 80% of COVID-19 Patients Were Vitamin D Deficient

The study also found that people who had both COVID-19 and lower vitamin D levels also had a higher number of inflammatory markers such as ferritin and D-dimer, which have been linked to poor COVID-19 outcomes. A different study found that COVID-19 patients who had adequate vitamin D levels had a 51.5 percent lower risk of dying from the disease and a significant reduced risk for complications."

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/new-study-found-80-percent-of-covid-19-patients-were-vitamin-d-deficient

That's me done for the night. I'm taking your advice explorer I've just had 4 vitamin D tablets

S...t wrong packet Viagra

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54 minutes ago, TerryP said:

That's me done for the night. I'm taking your advice explorer I've just had 4 vitamin D tablets

S...t wrong packet Viagra

You're in for a hard night then. 

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13 hours ago, TerryP said:

It could be said I've manipulated what has been said in this report to suit my own agenda. Probably true.

Flip side is some antivaxxer with half a brain could do the same and they do in many cases. Influencing some of the 99.9% who just read the salient points.

To my mind it's just irresponsible opinionated journalism not to at least make some reference as to the criteria of the the survey

We're not dealing with a report on a road test of the latest land rover

Again Terry, it's a newspaper report not a medical journal. The fact they include only the most salient points doesn't mean that's all they have.

Anyway, you may not trust the Israeli media but I'm sure you trust the BBC who are reporting today that the British Government are "looking seriously" at the efficacy rates based on the results of the Israeli study. I'm sure they are not doing this on the basis of a sensationalist newspaper article.

Let's be fair here, Terry, the report is hardly an outlier detailing findings which are contrary to the statements from the Pharmas and experts - the protocols are 2 jabs and efficacy rates are based on that. They have all cautioned against the UK decision as it's simply untested. 

Anyway, let's hope they are all wrong for the sake of the UK and the rest of us who will benefit from the alternative protocol.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Explorer said:

I don't know about DNA but many studies are indicating that vitamin D deficiency is major contributor to covid19 (and flu). Vitamin D is produced by sun exposure, the closer to the equator you live, the easier it is for your body to synthesize vitamin D from the sun's rays all year round, this may explain why flu season is mainly during the winter and more people are impacted in north america/europe. If you tell someone to take vitamins they treat you like a nutcase, I guess some are inadvertently became shills to the "pharmaceutical industrial complex"... but why should I care? I will take my gains from the pharma industry, have a nice juicy steak dinner tonight and of course will not forget to take my vitamins (vitamin D and C daily, zinc every 2 days).

"New Study Found 80% of COVID-19 Patients Were Vitamin D Deficient

The study also found that people who had both COVID-19 and lower vitamin D levels also had a higher number of inflammatory markers such as ferritin and D-dimer, which have been linked to poor COVID-19 outcomes. A different study found that COVID-19 patients who had adequate vitamin D levels had a 51.5 percent lower risk of dying from the disease and a significant reduced risk for complications."

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/new-study-found-80-percent-of-covid-19-patients-were-vitamin-d-deficient

I think the jury is still out as to whether it's the vitamin D deficiency or the lifestyles of those with the deficiency.  Again many studies have claimed and counter claimed reasons and all can be credible if worded correctly.  I'm more into the belief that those that are deficient of vitamin D tend not to spend so much time outdoors and it could a sedentary lifestyle that plays a larger part. 

You only need a very small amount of vitamin D supplement to get back to a normal level but again it has to be the correct supplement.   Many vitamin D supplements on the market aren't readily absorbed into the body so taking them you are just wasting money. 

Give it a year or two to see if it is the vitamin D as recording of Covid accurately hasn't fully been done as you'd expect Covid cases to have been low in summer months and higher in winter months in the Northern HemispherE.  Interestingly vitamin D deficiency is higher in Arabic Countries, maybe wearing pyjamas during the day is a leading cause of covid. :89:

The Royal College of Physicians a proper clinical establishment that doesn't get paid to hype vitamins are looking into the following areas as listed on their website: Do patients hospitalised with severe COVID-19 illness have lower vitamin D and Treg levels than COVID-19 positive patients whose illness is milder and who remain quarantined at home? Does vitamin D supplementation increase Tregs in these patients? Does vitamin D supplementation in the general population (particularly those who are vitamin D deficient) reduce hospitalisation (or days in hospital) when COVID-19 occurs? If vitamin D has beneficial effects against COVID-19, it would follow that the severity of the disease should lessen in the Northern hemisphere as exposure to increasing sunlight on the skin in springtime increases endogenous production of vitamin D through the photolysis of 7-dehydrocholesterol.  That's one study that's worth looking into.

From the same College: It is important to recognise that there is a potential for vitamin D toxicity. Consequently, more than the usual daily supplement should only be taken under medical supervision. The efficacy of vitamin D supplements in the prevention of acute respiratory tract infections has best been demonstrated with the chronic intake of low doses, rather than the bolus administration of large doses.14 This is well illustrated by the failure of a single, large enteral dose to improve the outcomes of vitamin D-deficient patients admitted to the intensive care unit (ICU) with pneumonia, sepsis, shock, or respiratory failure, relative to ICU patients given a placebo.15

 

14. Martineau AR, Jolliffe DA, Hooper RL, et al. Vitamin D supplementation to prevent acute respiratory tract infections: systematic review and meta-analysis of individual participant data. BMJ 2017;356:i6583. [PMC free article] [PubMed] []
15. Ginde AA, Brower RG, Caterino JM, et al. Early high-dose vitamin D(3) for critically ill, vitamin D-deficient patients. N Engl J Med 2019;381:2529–40. [PMC free article] [PubMed] []
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