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27 minutes ago, Explorer said:

This not conclusive, virus in nose, mouth not sterilized and can be transmitted. per https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7505651/

"Challenge studies in vaccinated primates showed reductions in pathology, symptoms, and viral load in the lower respiratory tract, but failed to elicit sterilising immunity in the upper airways. Sterilising immunity in the upper airways has been claimed for one vaccine, but peer-reviewed publication of these data are awaited."


Sterilising immunity in the upper airways is not the issue under discussion nor relevant to the legal issue under discussion.

What matters in that matter is whether or not a 'reasonable person' would conclude that risk would (or could) be materially lower if an action was taken (in this case requiring vaccination of travelling passengers) and only a "on the balance of probabilities" requirement needs to be met not a "beyond reasonable doubt" criteria.

Because we're discussing civil litigation issues and why the airlines in and of themselves want to do this.

It is my contention (and it seems the view of the QANTAS CEO) that on the balance of probabilities requiring vaccination for passengers is likely to reduce potential harm to carried passengers (and that's all the criteria that's needed for it to proceed).

In other words the airlines don't need 'proof' they just need reasonable cause to suspect it will help.

Edited by GeoffH
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19 hours ago, TerryP said:

Mmm

Airline and tourism boost.

Vaccine vacation!!!

I was hoping this was going to be a light-hearted positive post until I made this comment

We've now got a perfect storm of lawyers turning up sueing airlines, passengers and government

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2 hours ago, TerryP said:

I was hoping this was going to be a light-hearted positive post until I made this comment

We've now got a perfect storm of lawyers turning up sueing airlines, passengers and government

It looks like it's already started. It was brought up in the Scottish Parliament by the opposition party as an infringement of Article 13 of the Human Rights Act. Australia is also kicking off. No doubt it will just be a money making exercise for the lawyers, but I wonder how many Airlines etc have spare money to go through the courts. 

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1 minute ago, Snowy79 said:

It looks like it's already started. It was brought up in the Scottish Parliament by the opposition party as an infringement of Article 13 of the Human Rights Act. Australia is also kicking off. No doubt it will just be a money making exercise for the lawyers, but I wonder how many Airlines etc have spare money to go through the courts. 

Just came on the news here in the past few minutes they are going to allow passengers arriving here to have the quick testing upon arrival at their own expense to avoid 14 day quarantine

Not related to vaccine but another measure to help international travel

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28 minutes ago, Snowy79 said:

Australia is also kicking off. No doubt it will just be a money making exercise for the lawyers, but I wonder how many Airlines etc have spare money to go through the courts. 

I wouldn't be surprised to see the airlines try to bring the cases together to minimize costs, just that argument will take a while and that's without getting started.

Having said that I don't see these court cases as being anything other than a delaying tactic that won't ultimately stop airlines (and long distance bus companies and hospitals and nursing homes and others) from implementing this.

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25 minutes ago, GeoffH said:

I wouldn't be surprised to see the airlines try to bring the cases together to minimize costs, just that argument will take a while and that's without getting started.

Having said that I don't see these court cases as being anything other than a delaying tactic that won't ultimately stop airlines (and long distance bus companies and hospitals and nursing homes and others) from implementing this.

Lawyers are like rugby teams Geoff they hunt in packs if that follows through perhaps they should employ English lawyers after all as long as they don't come up against South Africans they should win easily

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9 hours ago, TerryP said:

Lawyers are like rugby teams Geoff they hunt in packs if that follows through perhaps they should employ English lawyers after all as long as they don't come up against South Africans they should win easily

I sort of wish they were like cricket teams... we'd have a better chance of winning out here  :hystery:

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4 hours ago, GeoffH said:

I sort of wish they were like cricket teams... we'd have a better chance of winning out here  :hystery:

Yes, but you lot keep tampering with your balls :whistling:

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2 hours ago, jimeve said:

Yes, but you lot keep tampering with your balls :whistling:

That's a bit below the belt. (To coin and phrase)🤭

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