robert k Posted June 21, 2021 Posted June 21, 2021 11 hours ago, Mike J said: I am with @scott h, tired of being in lockdown and having little or no social life. Had a stroke in 2017 and now have to take blood thinning meds. Astra vaccine June 3rd, will get the second Aug 3rd. The chances of death from vaccine induced blood clots, especially among men, is far lower than the chances of catching and dying from covid. You have of course confirmed data and studies to back that statement up? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffH Posted June 21, 2021 Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, robert k said: You have of course confirmed data and studies to back that statement up? This strongly supports that he is correct in his view about the risk vs benefit. https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/documents/chmp-annex/annex-vaxzevria-art53-visual-risk-contextualisation_en.pdf The first group relates to areas with high numbers of Covid infections, the second group to areas with moderate numbers of Covid infections and the last to areas with low numbers of Covid infections. In areas of high Covid prevalence there is no question that the vaccine is a better option for all age groups but in areas with low Covid case numbers (Australia or New Zealand for example) there is a case to be made for restricting use of certain vaccines to the over 60s (which is what Australia has in fact done with Astra Zeneca). The Philippines is however a country with at best a medium level of infections and all age groups are statistically better off being vaccinated. Edited June 21, 2021 by GeoffH 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert k Posted June 21, 2021 Posted June 21, 2021 8 hours ago, GeoffH said: This strongly supports that he is correct in his view about the risk vs benefit. https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/documents/chmp-annex/annex-vaxzevria-art53-visual-risk-contextualisation_en.pdf The first group relates to areas with high numbers of Covid infections, the second group to areas with moderate numbers of Covid infections and the last to areas with low numbers of Covid infections. In areas of high Covid prevalence there is no question that the vaccine is a better option for all age groups but in areas with low Covid case numbers (Australia or New Zealand for example) there is a case to be made for restricting use of certain vaccines to the over 60s (which is what Australia has in fact done with Astra Zeneca). The Philippines is however a country with at best a medium level of infections and all age groups are statistically better off being vaccinated. Except I'm not in the age group where it's sensible to Risk AstraZenica. Also, they have just admitted that they killed anyone. Also, that report was written in large part by the people who developed AstraZenica, which had to have a name change because people wouldn't take it. Sounds as self serving as Peter Daszak, saying there were no bats in the Wuhan lab, all bats were sampled and released in the field and so forth and so on when we all know that is patently untrue. Do you have anything from an independent source? Not the people who made the vaccine? I'm also interested if the poster meant it was safe for a particular vaccine? Age group? Whether or not you need to be on blood thinners? Maybe he should tell more about it? He didn't say it was his opinion. Footnote for the bats in the lab. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/evidence-mounts-wuhan-lab-studied-live-bats- 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum Support Mike J Posted June 21, 2021 Forum Support Posted June 21, 2021 11 minutes ago, robert k said: Except I'm not in the age group where it's sensible to Risk AstraZenica. Also, they have just admitted that they killed anyone. Also, that report was written in large part by the people who developed AstraZenica, which had to have a name change because people wouldn't take it. Sounds as self serving as Peter Daszak, saying there were no bats in the Wuhan lab, all bats were sampled and released in the field and so forth and so on when we all know that is patently untrue. Do you have anything from an independent source? Not the people who made the vaccine? I'm also interested if the poster meant it was safe for a particular vaccine? Age group? Whether or not you need to be on blood thinners? Maybe he should tell more about it? He didn't say it was his opinion. Footnote for the bats in the lab. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/evidence-mounts-wuhan-lab-studied-live-bats- I mentioned Astra in the post because I was aware of the rare clotting issue, did some due diligence, and decided (as did medical professionals around the world) that the risk was quite low in comparison with being vaccinated. Were I a young lady, I would probably choose a different vaccine if available. I am a 71 year old male. I am a bit confused as to your question about the blood thinners. If you mean do I take thinners, the answer is yes, I take clopidogrel. Point taken, I did not say it was my opinion as well as that of the medical community at large And I think they changed the name to AstraZeneca because how do even pronounce Vaxzevria. My opinion of course. https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-benefits-still-outweigh-risks-despite-possible-link-rare-blood-clots Spoiler EMA’s safety committee, PRAC, concluded its preliminary review of a signal of blood clots in people vaccinated with Vaxzevria (previously COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca) at its extraordinary meeting of 18 March 2021. The Committee confirmed that: the benefits of the vaccine in combating the still widespread threat of COVID-19 (which itself results in clotting problems and may be fatal) continue to outweigh the risk of side effects; the vaccine is not associated with an increase in the overall risk of blood clots (thromboembolic events) in those who receive it; there is no evidence of a problem related to specific batches of the vaccine or to particular manufacturing sites; however, the vaccine may be associated with very rare cases of blood clots associated with thrombocytopenia, i.e. low levels of blood platelets (elements in the blood that help it to clot) with or without bleeding, including rare cases of clots in the vessels draining blood from the brain (CVST). These are rare cases – around 20 million people in the UK and EEA had received the vaccine as of March 16 and EMA had reviewed only 7 cases of blood clots in multiple blood vessels (disseminated intravascular coagulation, DIC) and 18 cases of CVST. A causal link with the vaccine is not proven, but is possible and deserves further analysis. The PRAC involved experts in blood disorders in its review, and worked closely with other health authorities including the UK’s MHRA which has experience with administration of this vaccine to around 11 million people. Overall the number of thromboembolic events reported after vaccination, both in studies before licensing and in reports after rollout of vaccination campaigns (469 reports, 191 of them from the EEA), was lower than that expected in the general population. This allows the PRAC to confirm that there is no increase in overall risk of blood clots. However, in younger patients there remain some concerns, related in particular to these rare cases. The Committee’s experts looked in extreme detail at records of DIC and CVST reported from Member States, 9 of which resulted in death. Most of these occurred in people under 55 and the majority were women. Because these events are rare, and COVID-19 itself often causes blood clotting disorders in patients, it is difficult to estimate a background rate for these events in people who have not had the vaccine. However, based on pre-COVID figures it was calculated that less than 1 reported case of DIC might have been expected by 16 March among people under 50 within 14 days of receiving the vaccine, whereas 5 cases had been reported. Similarly, on average 1.35 cases of CVST might have been expected among this age group whereas by the same cut-off date there had been 12. A similar imbalance was not visible in the older population given the vaccine. The Committee was of the opinion that the vaccine’s proven efficacy in preventing hospitalisation and death from COVID-19 outweighs the extremely small likelihood of developing DIC or CVST. However, in the light of its findings, patients should be aware of the remote possibility of such syndromes, and if symptoms suggestive of clotting problems occur patients should seek immediate medical attention and inform healthcare professionals of their recent vaccination. Steps are already being taken to update the product information for the vaccine to include more information on these risks. The PRAC will undertake additional review of these risks, including looking at the risks with other types of COVID-19 vaccines (although no signal has been identified from monitoring so far). Close safety monitoring of reports of blood clotting disorders will continue, and further studies are being instituted to provide more laboratory data as well as real-world evidence. EMA will communicate further as appropriate. Information for patients COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca is not associated with an increased overall risk of blood clotting disorders. There have been very rare cases of unusual blood clots accompanied by low levels of blood platelets (components that help blood to clot) after vaccination. The reported cases were almost all in women under 55. Because COVID-19 can be so serious and is so widespread, the benefits of the vaccine in preventing it outweigh the risks of side effects. However, if you get any of the following after receiving the COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca: breathlessness, pain in the chest or stomach, swelling or coldness in a leg,1 severe or worsening headache or blurred vision after vaccination, persistent bleeding, multiple small bruises, reddish or purplish spots, or blood blisters under the skin, please seek prompt medical assistance and mention your recent vaccination. Information for healthcare professionals Cases of thrombosis and thrombocytopenia, some presenting as mesenteric vein or cerebral vein/cerebral venous sinus thrombosis, have been reported in persons who had recently received COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca, mostly occurring within 14 days after vaccination. The majority of reports involved women under 55, although some of this may reflect greater exposure of such individuals due to targeting of particular populations for vaccine campaigns in different Member States. The number of reported events exceeds those expected, and causality although not confirmed, cannot therefore be excluded. However, given the rarity of the events, and the difficulty of establishing baseline incidence since COVID-19 itself is resulting in hospitalisations with thromboembolic complications, the strength of any association is uncertain. EMA considers that the benefit-risk balance of the medicine remains positive, and there is no association with thromboembolic disorders overall. However, steps will be taken to update the SmPC and package leaflet with information on cases of DIC and CVST that have occurred. Healthcare professionals are urged to be alert for possible cases of thromboembolism, DIC or CVST occurring in vaccinated individuals. Recipients should be warned to seek immediate medical attention for symptoms of thromboembolism, and especially signs of thrombocytopenia and cerebral blood clots such as easy bruising or bleeding, and persistent or severe headache, particularly beyond 3 days after vaccination. A direct healthcare professional communication (DHPC) will be sent to healthcare professionals prescribing, dispensing or administering the medicine. The DHPC will also be published on a dedicated page on the EMA website. More about the medicine COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca is a vaccine for preventing coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) in people aged 18 years and older. COVID-19 is caused by SARS-CoV-2 virus. COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca is made up of another virus (of the adenovirus family) that has been modified to contain the gene for making a protein from SARS-CoV-2. COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca does not contain the virus itself and cannot cause COVID-19. The most common side effects with COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca are usually mild or moderate and improve within a few days after vaccination. More about the procedure The review of thromboembolic events with COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca was carried out in the context of a safety signal, under an accelerated timetable. A safety signal is information on a new or incompletely documented adverse event that is potentially caused by a medicine such as a vaccine and that warrants further investigation. The review was carried out by EMA's Pharmacovigilance Risk Assessment Committee (PRAC), the Committee responsible for the evaluation of safety issues for human medicines. EMA’s human medicine committee, CHMP, will now rapidly assess any necessary changes to the product information. https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-and-programs/covid-19-vaccines/is-it-true/is-it-true-does-the-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-cause-blood-clots Spoiler Is it true? Does the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine cause blood clots? There has been a link established between the AstraZeneca vaccine and a very rare but serious side effect called thrombosis in combination with thrombocytopenia. There is a very low chance of this side effect, which may occur in around 4-6 people in every million after being vaccinated. https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/news/coronavirus-and-your-health/astrazeneca-covid-vaccine Spoiler Is the AstraZeneca vaccine safe? Yes, it is very safe. The Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine was approved for use after being thoroughly tested on tens of thousands of people. On top of that, up to 9 June over 24.6 million people have now had a first dose of this vaccine in the UK, the overwhelming majority without any serious side effects or reactions. The World Health Organization, the medicines regulator in Europe, and the UK’s own medicines regulator have continued to monitor the safety of the vaccine. They have all said that the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine (also known as Vaxzevria) is safe and emphasised that the benefits continue to outweigh the risks. What side effects does the AstraZeneca vaccine have? Like all medicines, vaccines can cause side effects. Many people don't get any side effects. For the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine (like the other vaccines), the vast majority of side effects that occur are mild and short-term. The most common side effects are discomfort at the injection site, or feeling generally unwell, tired, or feverish, or a headache, feeling sick or having joint or muscle pain. You can take paracetamol to treat any of these side effects. Often side effects are a sign that the vaccine is doing its job: it can happen with many vaccines that some people might feel slightly unwell because their immune system is responding to the protein, but this is not a Covid-19 illness and the vaccine can’t give you coronavirus. Does the AstraZeneca vaccine cause blood clots? Up to 9 June there were 390 reports of people developing rare blood clots which were linked to low platelet levels after receiving a first dose of the Oxford/ AstraZeneca vaccine in the UK. Blood clots after the vaccine are rare. These 390 cases of blood clots are after over 42.3 million total doses of the vaccine. Of the 390 people who developed blood clots, 71 died. The MHRA has said that while there is stronger evidence of a link between the vaccine and the blood clots, more research is needed. They have emphasised that any risks of the Oxford/ AstraZeneca vaccine continue to outweigh the risks for the vast majority of people. All the cases of blood clots that the MHRA reviewed were accompanied by abnormally low levels of platelets in the blood. Platelets are involved in blood clotting, and these abnormally low levels can be a sign that your body’s normal clotting mechanisms are not working properly. Some of the blood clots were an unusual type of blood clot in blood vessels that drain blood from the brain called a cerebral venous sinus thrombosis (CVST). It is possible that an unusual immune reaction triggered by the vaccine could cause this to happen in rare cases and scientists are studying this further. The European Medicines Agency has now listed this as a rare possible side effect of the vaccine. An early study by the University of Oxford suggests that getting Covid-19 can put you at a much greater risk of developing CVT, than what having any of the vaccines would. What is the chance of dying from blood clots after having the vaccine? Even if the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine is proven to be the cause of the clots, the rate of death is extremely low – about one in every 345,000 people vaccinated. This needs to be balanced with the known risks of coronavirus causing serious illness (with complications that can include blood clots) and death. The risks of not having the vaccine are much greater than any risks of having it, for you as well as for those around you. What are the signs of a blood clot? When should I seek help? You should call 111 if you experience any of the following symptoms after a few days, and up until four weeks after having the vaccine: A severe headache that isn’t getting better, even after painkillers A headache that feels worse when you bend over or lie down A headache that isn’t normal for you, that occurs with blurred vision, nausea, vomiting, difficulty with your speech, weakness, drowsiness or seizures. A rash on your skin that looks like small bruises or blood under the skin Chest pain, shortness of breath, leg swelling or stomach pain Does the AstraZeneca vaccine cause stroke? There have been a very small number of reports of young adults (under 45) having a stroke within a month of having the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine. Ischaemic strokes are the most common type of stroke – They are the kind caused by a blood clot that blocks the arteries that provide oxygen and blood to the brain. At the moment, we don’t know whether these strokes have been caused by the vaccine, but we do know that they are very rare. Even if a link between the AstraZeneca vaccine and stroke is proven, it’s important to remember that the chance of having a stroke due to the vaccine is extremely low, and that stroke is more common in people who get Covid-19. Is the AstraZeneca vaccine linked to other bleeding problems? Analysis of data from over 2.5 million people in Scotland who have received their first dose of coronavirus vaccine has shown that in rare cases, the AstraZeneca vaccine has been linked to mild cases of a bleeding disorder called idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura. The condition means there is a reduction in blood platelets (the cells that help your blood to clot), which can lead to more bruising, bleeding gums and internal bleeding. This has affected around 1 in 100,000 people who have had the AstraZeneca vaccine. It has not caused any deaths. The condition was more likely in older people with existing health conditions, including heart and circulatory disease and diabetes. The same research found no link between the Pfizer vaccine and this condition. Other vaccines, such as the flu vaccine and MMR vaccine, have also been linked to this disorder in rare cases. Covid-19 can also lead to the same condition. The risk of this condition (and of much more serious health complications) from Covid-19 is much higher than from the vaccine. So you shouldn't let this rare condition put you off from getting the vaccine. Why are people under 40 being offered alternative vaccines? Analysis on the small number of people who experienced blood clots after getting the Oxford/ AstraZeneca vaccine suggests the risk, while still small, may be higher in younger adults. The UK’s vaccine advisory body, the JCVI, recommends that previously unvaccinated people under 40 with no underlying health conditions should be offered the Moderna or Pfizer/ BioNTech vaccine if available. In some locations people under 40 may still be offered the Oxford/ AstraZeneca vaccine if that is what is available (as it is easier to transport and store). The JVCI has said this age group can still choose to have Oxford/AstraZeneca if they want to get vaccinated sooner. If I had AstraZeneca for my first dose, will I have it again for my second dose? Yes - if you had the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine for your first dose, you will be offered it again for your second dose, even if you are under 40. This is because we still don’t know how effective different vaccines are when they are mixed together. Side effects from the second dose could be increased if you have a second dose of a different vaccine. How long would I have to wait between AstraZeneca doses? You can find information on the recommended time between doses on our vaccine second dose page. I have a history of blood clots – is the AstraZeneca vaccine safe for me? Overall, if you have a history of blood clots you can still have the Oxford/ AstraZeneca vaccine. The only people who are advised to have an alternative vaccine are those with a history of heparin-induced thrombocytopenia and thrombosis (HITT or HIT type 2). These are very rare conditions. There is no evidence that people with a history of blood clots (including deep vein thrombosis, or a clot that leads to a heart attack and stroke) are at increased risk from blood clots caused by the vaccine. If you are in this group, the risk of another blood clot caused by Covid-19 is likely to be far greater than the risk of a blood clot caused by the vaccine. The advice from the government’s Green Book of information on the vaccine is that the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine, or any of the available vaccines, are safe. I’ve heard that the AstraZeneca vaccine thins your blood, could this be true? No, the AstraZeneca vaccine is not a blood thinner. Some blood thinning medicines are also called anti-platelet drugs (because they discourage your platelets from sticking together to form a clot), and you may have heard the word platelets in connection with the AstraZeneca vaccine.That’s because a very small number of people who have had this vaccine have developed blood clots and low platelet levels (thrombocytopaenia). This may happen when antibodies that your body produces react to platelets in the blood, but researchers are working to understand this further. This reaction is extremely rare and only happens in a small number of people. It does not mean that the AstraZeneca vaccine will thin your blood. https://doh.gov.ph/press-release/DOH-OFFICIALLY-RESUMES-ASTRAZENECA-JABS-FOR-ALL-AGE-GROUPS-ISSUES-GUIDELINES-ON-MANAGEMENT-OF-VERY-RARE-BLOOD-CLOT Spoiler The Department of Health (DOH) on Friday announced the official resumption of the Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine for all eligible population, following the recommendation of the Philippine Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and the DOH All Experts Group on Vaccines. Previously, DOH adopted the recommendation of the FDA to temporarily suspend the use of AstraZeneca for individuals aged below 60 years old, after recent reports of very rare cases of Vaccine-Induced Thrombosis and Thrombocytopenia (VITT). Based on current evidence, VITT is a very rare condition of blood clots associated with low platelet counts that can occur 4 to 28 days after receiving a viral vector vaccine such as AstraZeneca. After discussions with the DOH All Experts Group and the Philippine College of Hematology and Transfusion Medicine (PCHTM), it was concluded that there are currently no known risk factors for VITT and that the benefits of receiving the vaccine against COVID-19 still outweighs the risk. However, specific guidelines and measures will still be enforced so that the risks can be mitigated. To date, no local VITT events have been confirmed by the National Adverse Events Following Immunization Committee (NAEFIC) and the FDA. The DOH said that the resumption and issuance of the guideline is timely as 2 million doses of AstraZeneca vaccine are expected to arrive in the country this month. Updated guidelines on the management of adverse events following immunization (AEFI) particularly for VITT1 were also subsequently released by the PCHTM. Based on the guidelines, all vaccination sites should have a strengthened post-vaccination surveillance to spot possible AEFI. Further, all healthcare workers (HCWs) in vaccination sites will be trained to detect and manage possible symptoms of VITT and refer them accordingly to the appropriate health facility for definitive work-up and management. The DOH All Experts Group on Vaccines is composed of experts from the DOST Vaccine Expert Panel, Health Technology Assessment Council, Interim National Immunization Technical Advisory Group, NAEFIC, and DOH Technical Advisory Group for COVID-19. The DOH urged the public to get their second dose of COVID-19 vaccines. The benefits of additional protection against COVID-19 could only be achieved by completing both doses of the vaccines. The DOH also reminded the public to practice the minimum public health standards to curb the transmission of COVID-19 even after getting vaccinated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffH Posted June 22, 2021 Posted June 22, 2021 (edited) 18 hours ago, robert k said: Except I'm not in the age group where it's sensible to Risk AstraZenica. If you're in the Philippines then it is statistically less risk for all age groups to take AstraZeneca because the Philippines has (depending upon where you are in the Philippines) either high or moderate case numbers. Further more the risk figures for blood clots are lower for males (between 5 and 10 times lower depending upon age). Edited June 22, 2021 by Old55 Removed a rude reference to another member. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert k Posted June 22, 2021 Posted June 22, 2021 3 hours ago, GeoffH said: If you're in the Philippines then it is statistically less risk for all age groups to take AstraZeneca because the Philippines has (depending upon where you are in the Philippines) either high or moderate case numbers. Further more the risk figures for blood clots are lower for males (between 5 and 10 times lower depending upon age). Unless of course you're a reverse ladyboy who was born female and transitioned to male I thought of blocking you because you are just too credulous. You so easily take the word of people who have a vested interest in avoiding scrutiny. As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter who you are, you don't get to investigate yourself and declare you have done no wrong. I was totally amazed! You spoke and I didn't even see Mike J's lips move! But I couldn't see Mike J's hand either. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffH Posted June 22, 2021 Posted June 22, 2021 1 hour ago, robert k said: I thought of blocking you because you are just too credulous. You're ignoring scientific facts supported by the vast majority of scientists around the world in favor of your own beliefs, and that's your right... just don't expect sensible people to believe you. As for you blocking me, go for it if you want 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert k Posted June 22, 2021 Posted June 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, GeoffH said: You're ignoring scientific facts supported by the vast majority of scientists around the world in favor of your own beliefs, and that's your right... just don't expect sensible people to believe you. As for you blocking me, go for it if you want You have an example? What scientific fact have I ignored? I can see they make you wear the helmet even when you aren't on a motorcycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffH Posted June 22, 2021 Posted June 22, 2021 12 minutes ago, robert k said: You have an example? What scientific fact have I ignored? I can see they make you wear the helmet even when you aren't on a motorcycle. There were 4 links in Mike J's post and a definitive link in mine... you appear to have ignored all of them. As for helmets... I strongly suspect you need to play with yours just a bit less 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert k Posted June 22, 2021 Posted June 22, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, GeoffH said: There were 4 links in Mike J's post and a definitive link in mine... you appear to have ignored all of them. As for helmets... I strongly suspect you need to play with yours just a bit less You do realize that Mike J edited his post, or removed and replaced? Those links weren't in the original post which I quoted? Scroll up, look at my original quote of Mike J's post and learn how simple you truly are. You prove me correct and I may have to block you after all. Look at the timeline of the posts, if you can with your helmet on backwards. Edited June 22, 2021 by robert k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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