Issues with sinovac?

[scott h]

5 hours ago, BC57 said:

i will never take the Sinovac vaccine, no way no how.

Well, just got back from the mall after getting jabbed with my first dose of Sinovac.

Besides automatically looking for my house's Feng Shui value, I feel fine. I will let you know if I start craving Won Ton soup. 

[Mike J]

5 hours ago, scott h said:

Well, just got back from the mall after getting jabbed with my first dose of Sinovac.

Besides automatically lookinng for my house's Feng Shui value, I feel fine. I will let you know if I start craving Won Ton soup. 

Is Sinovac the one they create by running bats through a blender?  

Edited June 22, 2021 by Mike J

[scott h]

1 hour ago, Mike J said:

running bats through a blender?

I think so it make a fine.....我不知道 

I am turning 我不知道  

[Dave Hounddriver]

5 hours ago, scott h said:

I am turning 我不知道  

[Dave Hounddriver]

On 6/20/2021 at 4:48 PM, Mike J said:

TOPLINE Concerns over the effectiveness of China’s Sinovac vaccine continue to grow—Indonesia reported hundreds of outbreaks among medical professionals who took the vaccine and hard-hit Costa Rica declined to use it for fear it won’t work—the latest stumbling block for China’s global vaccination drive as heavily vaccinated countries deploying its two flagship vaccines face some of the world’s worst outbreaks.

You quoted the Forbes site and now the NY Times is saying similar things.  Its a long read but the conclusion is that Sinovac is practically useless.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/22/business/economy/china-vaccines-covid-outbreak.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage

Spoiler

They Relied on Chinese Vaccines. Now They’re Battling Outbreaks.

More than 90 countries are using Covid shots from China. Experts say recent infections in those places should serve as a cautionary tale in the global effort to fight the disease.

A funeral in Kudus, Indonesia, in May. Many of the countries that are experiencing fresh coronavirus outbreaks despite high inoculation rates relied on Chinese-made vaccines.

A funeral in Kudus, Indonesia, in May. Many of the countries that are experiencing fresh coronavirus outbreaks despite high inoculation rates relied on Chinese-made vaccines

Sui-Lee Wee
By Sui-Lee Wee
June 22, 2021
Updated 2:07 p.m. ET
Mongolia promised its people a “Covid-free summer.” Bahrain said there would be a “return to normal life.” The tiny island nation of the Seychelles aimed to jump-start its economy.

All three put their faith, at least in part, in easily accessible Chinese-made vaccines, which would allow them to roll out ambitious inoculation programs when much of the world was going without.

But instead of freedom from the coronavirus, all three countries are now battling a surge in infections.

China kicked off its vaccine diplomacy campaign last year by pledging to provide a shot that would be safe and effective at preventing severe cases of Covid-19. Less certain at the time was how successful it and other vaccines would be at curbing transmission.

Now, examples from several countries suggest that the Chinese vaccines may not be very effective at preventing the spread of the virus, particularly the new variants. The experiences of those countries lay bare a harsh reality facing a postpandemic world: The degree of recovery may depend on which vaccines governments give to their people.

In the Seychelles, Chile, Bahrain and Mongolia, 50 to 68 percent of the populations have been fully inoculated, outpacing the United States, according to Our World in Data, a data tracking project. All four ranked among the top 10 countries with the worst Covid outbreaks as recently as last week, according to data from The New York Times. And all four are mostly using shots made by two Chinese vaccine makers, Sinopharm and Sinovac Biotech.

“If the vaccines are sufficiently good, we should not see this pattern,” said Jin Dongyan, a virologist at the University of Hong Kong. “The Chinese have a responsibility to remedy this.”

Image A vaccination on Chiloé Island, Chile. In Chile, the Seychelles, Bahrain and Mongolia, 50 to 68 percent of the populations have been fully vaccinated.
A vaccination on Chiloé Island, Chile. In Chile, the Seychelles, Bahrain and Mongolia, 50 to 68 percent of the populations have been fully vaccinated.Credit...Alvaro Vidal/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images
Scientists don’t know for certain why some countries with relatively high inoculation rates are suffering new outbreaks. Variants, social controls that are eased too quickly and careless behavior after only the first of a two-shot regimen are possibilities. But the breakthrough infections could have lasting consequences.

In the United States, about 45 percent of the population is fully vaccinated, mostly with doses made by Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna. Cases have dropped 94 percent over six months.

Israel provided shots from Pfizer and has the second-highest vaccination rate in the world, after the Seychelles. The number of new daily confirmed Covid-19 cases per million in Israel is now around 4.95.

In the Seychelles, which relied mostly on Sinopharm, that number is more than 716 cases per million.

Disparities such as these could create a world in which three types of countries emerge from the pandemic — the wealthy nations that used their resources to secure Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna shots, the poorer countries that are far away from immunizing a majority of citizens, and then those that are fully inoculated but only partly protected.

China, as well as the more than 90 nations that have received the Chinese shots, may end up in the third group, contending with rolling lockdowns, testing and limits on day-to-day life for months or years to come. Economies could remain held back. And as more citizens question the efficacy of Chinese doses, persuading unvaccinated people to line up for shots may also become more difficult.

One month after receiving his second dose of Sinopharm, Otgonjargal Baatar fell ill and tested positive for Covid-19. Mr. Otgonjargal, a 31-year-old miner, spent nine days in a hospital in Ulaanbaatar, the capital of Mongolia. He said he was now questioning the usefulness of the shot.

“People were convinced that if we were vaccinated, the summer will be free of Covid,” he said. “Now it turns out that it’s not true.”

Image
Xi Jinping, China’s leader, pledged to deliver a Chinese vaccine that could be easily stored and transported to millions of people around the world. He called it a “global public good.”Credit...Andrea Verdelli/Getty Images
Beijing saw its vaccine diplomacy as an opportunity to emerge from the pandemic as a more influential global power. China’s top leader, Xi Jinping, pledged to deliver a Chinese shot that could be easily stored and transported to millions of people around the world. He called it a “global public good.”

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Mongolia was a beneficiary, jumping at the chance to score millions of Sinopharm shots. The small country quickly rolled out an inoculation program and eased restrictions. It has now vaccinated 52 percent of its population. But on Sunday, it recorded 2,400 new infections, a quadrupling from a month before.

In a statement, China’s Foreign Ministry said it did not see a link between the recent outbreaks and its vaccines. It cited the World Health Organization as saying that vaccination rates in certain countries had not reached sufficient levels to prevent outbreaks, and that countries needed to continue to maintain controls.

“Relevant reports and data also show that many countries that use Chinese-made vaccines have expressed that they are safe and reliable, and have played a good role in their epidemic prevention efforts,” the ministry said. China has also emphasized that its vaccines target severe disease rather than transmission.

No vaccine fully prevents transmission, and people can still fall ill after being inoculated, but the relatively low efficacy rates of Chinese shots have been identified as a possible cause of the recent outbreaks.

The Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines have efficacy rates of more than 90 percent. A variety of other vaccines — including AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson — have efficacy rates of around 70 percent. The Sinopharm vaccine developed with the Beijing Institute of Biological Products has an efficacy rate of 78.1 percent; the Sinovac vaccine has an efficacy rate of 51 percent.

The Chinese companies have not released much clinical data to show how their vaccines work at preventing transmission. On Monday, Shao Yiming, an epidemiologist with the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention, said China needed to fully vaccinate 80 to 85 percent of its population to achieve herd immunity, revising a previous official estimate of 70 percent.

Data on breakthrough infections has not been made available, either, though a Sinovac study out of Chile showed that the vaccine was less effective than those from Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna at preventing infection among vaccinated individuals.

A representative from Sinopharm hung up the phone when reached for comment. Sinovac did not respond to a request for comment.

William Schaffner, medical director of the National Foundation for Infectious Diseases at Vanderbilt University, said the efficacy rates of Chinese shots could be low enough “to sustain some transmission, as well as create illness of a substantial amount in the highly vaccinated population, even though it keeps people largely out of the hospital.”

Image
Mongolia now ranks among the top countries that have fully vaccinated its population, inoculating about 52 percent of its people. But on Sunday, it recorded 2,400 new infections, quadrupling from a month before.Credit...Khasar Sandag for The New York Times
Despite the spike in cases, officials in both the Seychelles and Mongolia have defended Sinopharm, saying it is effective in preventing severe cases of the disease.

Batbayar Ochirbat, head researcher of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies at Mongolia’s Ministry of Health, said Mongolia had made the right decision to go with the Chinese-made shot, in part because it had helped keep the mortality rate low in the country. Data from Mongolia showed that the Sinopharm vaccine was actually more protective than the doses developed by AstraZeneca and Sputnik, a Russian vaccine, according to the Health Ministry.

The reason for the surge in Mongolia, Mr. Batbayar said, is that the country reopened too quickly, and many people believed they were protected after only one dose.

“I think you could say Mongolians celebrated too early,” he said. “My advice is the celebrations should start after the full vaccinations, so this is the lesson learned. There was too much confidence.”

Some health officials and scientists are less confident.

Nikolai Petrovsky, a professor at the College of Medicine and Public Health at Flinders University in Australia, said that with all of the evidence, it would be reasonable to assume the Sinopharm vaccine had minimal effect on curbing transmission. A major risk with the Chinese inoculation is that vaccinated people may have few or no symptoms and still spread the virus to others, he said.

“I think that this complexity has been lost on most decision makers around the world.”

In Indonesia, where a new variant is spreading, more than 350 doctors and health care workers recently came down with Covid-19 despite being fully vaccinated with Sinovac, according to the risk mitigation team of the Indonesian Medical Association. Across the country, 61 doctors died between February and June 7. Ten of them had taken the Chinese-made vaccine, the association said.

The numbers were enough to make Kenneth Mak, Singapore’s director of medical services, question the use of Sinovac. “It’s not a problem associated with Pfizer,” Mr. Mak said at a news conference on Friday. “This is actually a problem associated with the Sinovac vaccine.”

Bahrain and the United Arab Emirates were the first two countries to approve the Sinopharm shot, even before late-stage clinical trial data was released. Since then, there have been extensive reports of vaccinated people falling ill in both countries. In a statement, the Bahraini government’s media office said the kingdom’s vaccine rollout had been “efficient and successful to date.”

Still, last month officials from Bahrain and the United Arab Emirates announced that they would offer a third booster shot. The choices: Pfizer or more Sinopharm.

Reporting was contributed by Khaliun Bayartsogt, Andrea Kannapell, Ben Hubbard, Asmaa al-Omar and Muktita Suhartono. Elsie Chen and Claire Fu contributed research.

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[scott h]

1 hour ago, Dave Hounddriver said:

Its a long read but the conclusion is that Sinovac is practically useless.

To be honest Dave, I am to the point that I dont care if they Jab me with water. Even when we get it we will still have to wear masks (and face shields) 

I am just hoping against hope that sooner or later, those that got the Jab will be able to travel inside the country with out swab tests. 

I dont know how close you can follow the news there, but there is serious talk amongst those in power to start discriminating against the non-jabbed population. One idea floated is lets say in a call center, jabbed work the day shift, non-jabbed work the night. Silly stuff like that.

I just want to be able to go to a local resort again lolol

[Jack Peterson]

 In the Real World, it is called PANIC Management 

[robert k]

7 hours ago, scott h said:

To be honest Dave, I am to the point that I dont care if they Jab me with water. Even when we get it we will still have to wear masks (and face shields) 

I am just hoping against hope that sooner or later, those that got the Jab will be able to travel inside the country with out swab tests. 

I dont know how close you can follow the news there, but there is serious talk amongst those in power to start discriminating against the non-jabbed population. One idea floated is lets say in a call center, jabbed work the day shift, non-jabbed work the night. Silly stuff like that.

I just want to be able to go to a local resort again lolol

I would make a friendly wager that even with the jab, you will still be required to get swabbed, because you can still contract the disease and still pass it on.

[scott h]

2 hours ago, robert k said:

because you can still contract the disease and still pass it on.

Very true, saw an interesting interview about the states program. The more folks that get the jab, will reduce the number of people who can get seriously sick, and statistically speaking the States have enough icu beds now available to take care of those who choose not to get jabbed. They are now playing a numbers game.

So, with the lack of medical facilities here, the more people get jabbed the sooner the numbers "might" even out

But as you say, I am not holding my breath 

[robert k]

3 hours ago, scott h said:

Very true, saw an interesting interview about the states program. The more folks that get the jab, will reduce the number of people who can get seriously sick, and statistically speaking the States have enough icu beds now available to take care of those who choose not to get jabbed. They are now playing a numbers game.

So, with the lack of medical facilities here, the more people get jabbed the sooner the numbers "might" even out

But as you say, I am not holding my breath 

The sad thing is none of it is logical. Jabbed people moving around the Philippines may be deemed the new superspreaders next week. They never will come out and say if you do thus, we will let you free. It's always something else.