Can ivermectin treat covid-19

[OnMyWay]

13 hours ago, RBM said:

I fail to see where I indicated if you care or not, its quite irreverent to me  what you care.

But as everyone (except yourself) appears to know who and what Greg Norman is, point is although being in top shape one would presume  does help against covid its not always the case as  Mike j correctly posted about.

 

On 8/28/2021 at 12:12 PM, Mike J said:

<snip>

Gregory John Norman AO is an Australian entrepreneur and retired professional golfer who spent 331 weeks as the world's Number 1 Official World Golf Rankings ranked golfer in the 1980s and 1990s

<end snip>

Better physical shape than probably 90% of men even though he is in his mid 60s.  Hospitalized twice with covid that he says; "kicked the crap out of me".

You guys lost me with the Greg Norman reasoning.  His case seems to support what Earthdome had said, which was basically that being in good health helps protect a body from Covid and in the case where you get Covid, you don't get it bad.  You don't end up in ICU.  You don't die.

Greg's name had not come up in anything I read for a long time.  I did not know he had Covid.  He had it in December 2020, in Florida.

He said it "kicked the crap out of me".  That is very relative to an individuals history with flu-type of diseases.  He is very fit so maybe he has never even had a bad flu before.  I have had a couple of flus over the years that kicked the crap out of me.  Sick for several days with body aches, severe headaches, fever and vomiting.  Lost 10+ pounds more than one time.

So I was googling him and his Covid.  First, who is Greg Norman?

-- Ex-pro golfer, 66 years old

-- Takes pride in keeping himself fit

--  Multi-millionaire with access to the best trainers, nutritionists, foods, doctors and medicines in the world

--  Has had 13 surgeries, 11 golf related

He got Covid.  So how sick did he get?  ICU?  Ventolator?  Long hospital stay?  From the articles, I deduced the following:

--  He and his son Greg Jr., also very fit, played together in the PNC Championship in Orlando.  That ended on Dec. 20th, Sunday.

-- Somehow it was determined that they had probably been exposed to Covid.  On Tuesday, December 22nd, Greg tested negative for Covid.

--  Greg started developing some Covid symptoms on Wednesday the 23rd, 4 days after exposure.

-- On Friday, Christmas Day, Greg went to the ER.  Quote: “These are what made me admit myself on Christmas Day as I wanted to know my status to Covid for the health and safety for all around me. I had a chest X-Ray and blood test where 2 markers showed up leading the Doc to say, assume you are positive with these symptoms and markers. They released me to continue quarantining at home on medication.”

He did not stay at the hospital.  His son and his son's fiance also tested positive on Friday and I assume they were all staying at Greg's house in Jupiter.  Greg isolated in the guesthouse.

--  On Sunday the 27th, he went back to the hospital after his test came back positive.  He was given Bamlanivimab antibody and went home again.  One of his complaints "muscles that just did not want to work like yesterday walking my dog Apollo my quads and hip flexors just did not want to work due to fatigue."

--  As far as I know, after that he got better and continued his quarantine.

I think Greg is a prime example that staying fit and active in your older years is a major factor in fighting diseases, including Covid.  Covid may have "kicked his ass" but his case was nothing compared to other serious cases.  "Hospitalized twice" is a bit of stretch.  He visited the hospital twice.  An obese couch potato would have been in trouble, I suspect.

His Instagram has most of this info:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CJRwjd-JKD4/?utm_source=ig_embed&ig_rid=f9fcf180-b46b-45e4-b797-a2e1fd82cc93

o all my family, friends, fans and partners. Thank you for your concerns, support and flood of special meaningful words of encouragement and love. I am home now after admitting myself to the ER yesterday, Christmas Day with symptoms very suspicious to what I have read about relating to CoVid. When I returned from golf tournament last week I self-quarantined Sunday night to where I am today.
I tested negative under the PGA Tour bubble for the tournament and again another negative test last Tuesday. On Wednesday day 4 of incubation after being exposed, symptoms raised there ugly head - fever joint and muscle aches especially in my back and headaches. Still have most but on a lesser level. These are what made me admit myself on Christmas Day as I wanted to know my status to CoVid for the health and safety for all around me. I had a chest X-Ray and blood test where 2 markers showed up leading the Doc to say, assume you are positive with these symptoms and markers. They released me to continue quarantining at home on medication in our guest house away from the main house. I do not have my PCR Covid test results as yet. Hopefully in the next 24 hrs. Until I get 2 consecutive negative tests I will continue to isolate with my dog Apollo keeping me company.
Again thank you all for your concerns love and support and please be safe stay healthy and be smart. And let’s put this 2020 in our rearview mirrors and look to 2021 and beyond where we can get back to life in whatever the new normal will be. God bless you all.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CJUEeHSpdJw/?utm_source=ig_embed&ig_rid=9dddbd89-78d0-4058-b284-7f0f0bf75e0b

Ok I hope this will be my final update on this CoVid saga of mine. Now back in hospital after getting a positive result on my PCR CoVid test. Getting an infusion of Bamlanivimab antibody. The path to full recovery. Hoping to be out later today. Want to thank the excellent Doctors RN’s and staff at Palm Beach Gardens Medical Center for their incredible dedication and professionalism looking after and caring for patients in need in the face of having CoVid in getting this infusion. They have my utmost of respect. Also to all out there, please take this very very serious. If you get it, the variations and intensity of symptoms varies from person to person. I am fit and strong and have a high tolerance for pain but this virus kicked the crap out of me like nothing I have ever experienced before. Muscle and joint pain on another level. Headaches that feel like a chisel going through your head scrapping little bits off each time, fever, muscles that just did not want to work like yesterday walking my dog Apollo my quads and hip flexors just did not want to work due to fatigue. Then my taste failed where beer tastes bad and wine the same. And finally at times struggling with memory of names and things. Then there is irritation. So please take care. And for those doubters out there, do not judge or cast unwarranted comments and opinions I would not anyone, even you, to experience this hideous virus. So I ask, do what is right, not just for you, but your family friends co-workers and other people around. I am luckier than most and for that I am thankful and blessed. Also the world is blessed science has acted and performed like never before in getting a vaccine/s for all to eventually receive. Thank you to those people. We need to great our world back in healthy harmony so we can get healthy economically and prosperously with millions and millions people getting their lives back. God bless those infected and who may fall unwittingly to this virus. My prayers and thoughts go out to you all. Once out of here today back to quarantine.

 

 

[Mike J]

1 hour ago, OnMyWay said:

You guys lost me with the Greg Norman reasoning.  His case seems to support what Earthdome had said, which was basically that being in good health helps protect a body from Covid and in the case where you get Covid, you don't get it bad.  You don't end up in ICU.  You don't die.

I think that both sides make valid points.

A.  If you catch covid and are in excellent health, with no comorbidities, you are far more likely to have less severe symptoms, not require hospitalization, ICU, and/or death.  Those who are in excellent physical condition will in many cases have a stronger immune system which fights the virus.

B.  Even being in excellent physical condition and strong immune system, you can still catch corvid, still go into the hospital, ICU, and/or death. 

Bottom line - Excellent physical condition PLUS the vaccine and you have the best of both.  You are less likely to catch covid, your immune system has already been primed to fight the virus, and your physical condition makes you more healthy and strong if you are somehow exposed to a massive viral load.  Just my opinion of course.

 

[OnMyWay]

On 8/26/2021 at 7:07 AM, GeoffH said:

Ignoring the 'does it work or not' for the moment I'd just like to say that there is a big difference between convincing your Doctor to prescribe you Ivermectin (which has happened of course) and going to an animal stock feed store and buying vet quality ivermectin and dosing yourself with it.

The latter has happened... and honestly... don't, just don't.

 

 

The size might be your first clue that your dealer got it at the feed store!

Edited August 30, 2021 by OnMyWay

[OnMyWay]

On 8/28/2021 at 3:10 PM, Snowy79 said:

Unfortunately it's got nothing to do with a healthy immune system more to do with an immune system that recognises the virus and attacks it.

I would call an immune system that recognizes the virus and attacks it a healthy immune system????  

[OnMyWay]

On 8/29/2021 at 9:07 AM, Snowy79 said:

This was one of the major killers at the start of covid and why so many young and healthy died.

I don't recall that period where a lot of young and healthy were dying.  Are there some stats somewhere?

[OnMyWay]

1 hour ago, Mike J said:

Bottom line - Excellent physical condition PLUS the vaccine and you have the best of both.  You are less likely to catch covid, your immune system has already been primed to fight the virus, and your physical condition makes you more healthy and strong if you are somehow exposed to a massive viral load.  Just my opinion of course.

I just re-read the entire topic.  I don't see anything against vaccines.  Earthdome was just explaining how big pharma works in the U.S. and that being fit helps ward off Covid and/or keeps it minimal.  He is correct about big pharma in the U.S.  Their shareholders have little interest in a low margin product.

I see no reason why doctor prescribed ivermectin can't coexist with vaccines.  I have no idea if it works but it is safe for other treatments, so even if has only placebo effect, so be it.

The point about Greg Norman was it seemed that he was being used as an example of a very fit person who got Covid very badly.  I don't see that.  In fact, he should be held up a shining example of how important fitness is at older ages.

I think one point Earthdome was making but not mentioned explicitly was that the U.S. is very unhealthy, in general.  Out of control obesity rates contribute to many of the comorbidities that make the population so vulnerable to Covid.  If we have a nation comprised of fitness nuts like Greg Norman, Covid would have a much smaller impact on society.

Now I will go scrape the rust off of my weights.  BTW, I got to use my vaccination card for the first time.  We went to a 7 year olds birthday party, and the host had them play the classic Filipino party game, Bring It.  The last item was Vaccination Card!  I was the only one with a card so my daughter won!  I know a few others there are vaccinated but they didn't have the card.

[Snowy79]

20 minutes ago, OnMyWay said:

I would call an immune system that recognizes the virus and attacks it a healthy immune system????  

Some healthy immune systems create a cytokene storm which basically means the immune system produces too many cytokenes which in turn overloads the main organs especially the lungs and kidneys leading to death. 

A person with a weaker immune system is less likely to die this way.  I'm no expert but I'd say there's a happy medium between immune systems, neither too strong or two weak.

[Snowy79]

32 minutes ago, OnMyWay said:

I don't recall that period where a lot of young and healthy were dying.  Are there some stats somewhere?

I couldn't find stats as things at the start of covid were all over the place but this initial report highlghted the issues with young people and cytokene storms plus viral loads:  

There's also a theory that the virus could be causing what's known as a "cytokine storm" in some young patients. The phenomenon, named after cytokine proteins which are part of the immune system, causes the immune system to overreact to an external pathogen, like a virus. The response ultimately could cause a patient's immune system to attack their lungs, causing their lungs to stop delivering oxygen to the rest of their body, and leading to respiratory failure and potentially death.

Other health experts suggest that patients exposed to larger amounts of the new coronavirus could become sicker than others. Alison Sinclair, a virologist at Sussex University, said, "A person with a high viral load has more virus particles than one with a low load. We do not yet know what impact viral load has on the symptoms of a person infected with Covid-19. Whether there is a link between a high viral load and worse outcomes is going to be important to find out."

https://www.advisory.com/en/daily-briefing/2020/04/13/covid-young-people

[OnMyWay]

1 hour ago, Snowy79 said:

I couldn't find stats as things at the start of covid were all over the place but this initial report highlghted the issues with young people and cytokene storms plus viral loads:  

Regardless of the technicalities of "why", young healthy people have always had far less risk.  That study was from April 2020 and at that point, nobody knew up from down.  In that very small sample, quote:

CDC data on more than 1,400 hospitalizations related to Covid-19 shows people under the age of 50 accounted for about 25% of the hospitalizations. Most of those people had other underlying health conditions, but at least seven of them did not, CDC said.

7 out of 1400+ did not have comorbidities.  That is telling.

 If you want to play with all US death data, CDC has an easy to use database:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm

1 hour ago, Snowy79 said:

There's also a theory that the virus could be causing what's known as a "cytokine storm" in some young patients. The phenomenon, named after cytokine proteins which are part of the immune system, causes the immune system to overreact to an external pathogen, like a virus. The response ultimately could cause a patient's immune system to attack their lungs, causing their lungs to stop delivering oxygen to the rest of their body, and leading to respiratory failure and potentially death.

This seems to be a statistically insignificant number of deaths.

1 hour ago, Snowy79 said:

Other health experts suggest that patients exposed to larger amounts of the new coronavirus could become sicker than others. Alison Sinclair, a virologist at Sussex University, said, "A person with a high viral load has more virus particles than one with a low load. We do not yet know what impact viral load has on the symptoms of a person infected with Covid-19. Whether there is a link between a high viral load and worse outcomes is going to be important to find out."

That just seems to be common sense that a high viral load would result in worse outcomes, and getting big viral loads at the beginning of infection would allow Covid to progress faster. However, let's say the guy who gave Greg Norman Covid sneezed a big one all over his beer and then shared it with 66 year old Greg Norman and 55 year old John Daly.  My money is on Greg to survive.  John Daly, well.......

 

[Mike J]

1 hour ago, OnMyWay said:

Regardless of the technicalities of "why", young healthy people have always had far less risk.  That study was from April 2020 and at that point, nobody knew up from down.  In that very small sample, quote:

CDC data on more than 1,400 hospitalizations related to Covid-19 shows people under the age of 50 accounted for about 25% of the hospitalizations. Most of those people had other underlying health conditions, but at least seven of them did not, CDC said.

7 out of 1400+ did not have comorbidities.  That is telling.

But this was also pre-delta.  The delta version seems to be more easily spread and the incident rate among young people has risen a lot.   There are a number of reasons for this being put forward:

Younger people may be more susceptible to delta than prior versions of the virus.

A higher percentage of older folks have already been vaccinated than younger so there is less protection to the younger population a whole compared to seniors.

Younger people are not able to practice safety protocols as easily as seniors.  They are the workers, the shoppers, the caregivers, running errands, etc.  They are simply less able to "hunker down" than most retired seniors.

All or any of these make sense (at least to me) that the average age of people ending up in the hospital with covid is decreasing.

For me the lesson is clear - none of us is safe from covid.  But we can dramatically reduce the risk of a serious infection by getting vaccinated, practicing a healthy lifestyle, following safety protocols, and getting vaccinated. 

I know that I wrote getting vaccinated twice.