Fuel Prices

[Mike J]

31 minutes ago, Jollygoodfellow said:

42.5 litre at 7/11 if you buy 2.two litre bottles. Coke that is  

In the US they are freaking out and bitching about paying up to $6.00 per gallon for gas for their big SUVs with V8 engines.  No complaints when they buy bottled water that works out to $9.60 per gallon.  And drinking water in 99 percent of the USA is perfectly fine to drink from the tap.   

<snip>In exploring the true cost of bottled water, we have to look at financial costs. On average, a 20-ounce bottle of water costs approximately $1.50. When translating this into gallons, water costs approximately $9.60 per gallon on average when consumed in bottled water form.<end snip>

[GeoffH]

13 hours ago, Mike J said:

In the US they are freaking out and bitching about paying up to $6.00 per gallon for gas for their big SUVs with V8 engines. 

The US has some of the cheapest gas of any first world country... it's a similar situation in Australia (we're about 4th cheapest in the OECD) and people are complaining about gas prices.

And yet what the USA are paying now is what Aussie was paying last year and what Aussie is paying now is what Europe were paying last year.

Maybe US buyers need to stop buying big SUVs and 1 ton trucks and Aussie buyers need to stop buying medium SUVs and 1/2 ton trucks and buy something that uses a bit less gas like the rest of the world.
 

The gas bill for a Wigo (as we've got in the Philippines) or a Mirage (as I've got in Aussie) hurts a lot less than a big truck.

[Mike J]

11 minutes ago, GeoffH said:

The gas bill for a Wigo (as we've got in the Philippines) or a Mirage (as I've got in Aussie) hurts a lot less than a big truck.

The monthly gas bill for my Honda Scoopy scooter runs about 400-500 peso and I use it almost every day.   Wife drives a Suzuki multicab van.   She also drives daily and has not complained about the cost of gas so I assume the monthly expense is not great.   

[baronapart]

22 hours ago, GeoffH said:

The US has some of the cheapest gas of any first world country... it's a similar situation in Australia (we're about 4th cheapest in the OECD) and people are complaining about gas prices.

And yet what the USA are paying now is what Aussie was paying last year and what Aussie is paying now is what Europe were paying last year.

Maybe US buyers need to stop buying big SUVs and 1 ton trucks and Aussie buyers need to stop buying medium SUVs and 1/2 ton trucks and buy something that uses a bit less gas like the rest of the world.
 

The gas bill for a Wigo (as we've got in the Philippines) or a Mirage (as I've got in Aussie) hurts a lot less than a big truck.

My Cadillac begs to differ ;-)

[Jollygoodfellow]

On 3/26/2022 at 7:59 AM, GeoffH said:

The gas bill for a Wigo (as we've got in the Philippines) or a Mirage (as I've got in Aussie) hurts a lot less than a big truck.

Geoff your being Americanised, its petrol we usually put in cars, not gas unless its converted. 

[Dave Hounddriver]

On 3/26/2022 at 7:59 AM, GeoffH said:

Maybe US buyers need to stop buying big SUVs and 1 ton trucks

Sacrilege!  That's like telling an Aussie to stop buying Vegemite!  Its tradition!

[OnMyWay]

On 3/25/2022 at 6:12 PM, Mike J said:

In the US they are freaking out and bitching about paying up to $6.00 per gallon for gas for their big SUVs with V8 engines.  No complaints when they buy bottled water that works out to $9.60 per gallon.  And drinking water in 99 percent of the USA is perfectly fine to drink from the tap.   

Wow!  Painting U.S. drivers with a very broad brush!  The fact is, for whatever reason, many areas of the U.S. are set up for driving and don't have good mass transportation.  Average working families use cars for commuting to work and school, buying groceries, etc.  Your upper middle class might be able to drive and afford big V8 SUVs but your common commuter is not, for the most part.   These gas price hikes hit the poorer people very hard, in every country.  Wealthier people can absorb it or go spend a ton of money on an EV.

On 3/26/2022 at 7:59 AM, GeoffH said:

The US has some of the cheapest gas of any first world country... it's a similar situation in Australia (we're about 4th cheapest in the OECD) and people are complaining about gas prices.

And yet what the USA are paying now is what Aussie was paying last year and what Aussie is paying now is what Europe were paying last year.

And why do these other countries pay a lot more than the U.S.?  Plain and simple, excise taxes, and a dependence on other countries for energy.

https://taxfoundation.org/oecd-gas-tax/

The U.S. could be energy independent, but has current leadership that does not want that.  Energy independence helps maintain lower prices.

[GeoffH]

On 3/27/2022 at 8:33 PM, OnMyWay said:

Wow!  Painting U.S. drivers with a very broad brush!  The fact is, for whatever reason, many areas of the U.S. are set up for driving and don't have good mass transportation.  Average working families use cars for commuting to work and school, buying groceries, etc.  Your upper middle class might be able to drive and afford big V8 SUVs but your common commuter is not, for the most part. 

True but even where people in Australia and the US aren't driving trucks or SUVs the fact is that on average they're driving larger and less fuel efficient vehicles than their counterparts in Euro countries and even more so than people in other countries around the world (which is my point).  The pain would be a LOT less if people made buying choices for more fuel efficient cars.  This diagram is a bit old now but the relative fuel economies between countries haven't altered much (all countries are better but USA and Australia are still highest users per capita).  And yes fuel prices impact lower income earners to a higher degree but a countries car fleet being much less economical than they could be is also a large factor.  Richer and Middle class people buy non-efficient cars then sell them and less afluent people have to buy them because they're what's available.

What's needed is a tiered fuel tax that directly reflects the economy of the vehicle being sold (that's indirectly done with fuel excise which is why countries with higher fuel excise/tax tend to have more efficient car fleets).  A better way is to tax less fuel efficient vehicles at a higher rate of tax to encourage sales of more fuel efficient vehicles.  

Edited March 29, 2022 by GeoffH

[OnMyWay]

 

4 hours ago, GeoffH said:

True but even where people in Australia and the US aren't driving trucks or SUVs the fact is that on average they're driving larger and less fuel efficient vehicles than their counterparts in Euro countries and even more so than people in other countries around the world (which is my point).   

Supply and demand.  Consumers will gravitate towards transportation solutions that are cost effective for their situation.  It would appear that you are advocating taxation as a solution, in that the high taxes will force people to take the route you favor.

4 hours ago, GeoffH said:

The pain would be a LOT less if people made buying choices for more fuel efficient cars. 

The pain for who?  The poor / middle class again.  And that is not a great argument.  For instance, many people who have long commutes in the U.S. buy a fuel efficient car to save money.  If your fuel cost doubles, it still hurts.  Do you think the driver of a fuel efficient car is going to say "I don't mind that my fuel cost doubled because my car is fuel efficient".  Only wealthier people can ignore it.

The high fuel costs effective prices of everything we buy.

4 hours ago, GeoffH said:

Richer and Middle class people buy non-efficient cars then sell them and less afluent people have to buy them because they're what's available.

I don't think that is true anymore.  There are plenty of fuel efficient used cars available normally.  Also, fuel efficiency is way up over the years and is always improving.  Even for powerful cars and SUVs.

4 hours ago, GeoffH said:

A better war is to tax less fuel efficient vehicles at a higher rate of tax to encourage sales of more fuel efficient vehicles.  

The U.S. still has a gas guzzler tax leftover from the 1970s.  You pay it on the new car.  And the U.S. had/has rebates on EVs, the reverse of a tax.  I got a tax rebate on my 2006 Honda Accord Hybrid.  And my 2007 Corvette had a gas guzzler tax on it when sold new, even though that was not exactly fair.  It would get over 30 mpg at 65 mph.

Europe leans towards socialism in many ways and finances the programs with taxes of many types.  The U.S. and Australia have far less taxation, which I prefer.  Neither way is perfect.  I prefer that taxes be used for real needs, not to motivate people to do what the party in power thinks is right, and then use the money for anything.

https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-do-us-taxes-compare-internationally

Edited March 27, 2022 by OnMyWay

[Possum]

"The U.S. could be energy independent, but has current leadership that does not want that.  Energy independence helps maintain lower prices."

Though I wish that were true sadly it is not, when considering gasoline. Oil is an international commodity and all crude oil is not equal. The US doesn't and has not for many years produced enough crude that can be economically refined into gasoline to satisfy the demand. The oil companies export lower quality oils and import higher quality oils to refine for gasoline and diesel. They also sell those refined products to other countries.  Commodities are bought and sold to the highest bidder. The nationality of oil can change at sea.