Norwegian Held

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LakeB
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Here are som links to Sunstar and Inquier about the horrible murder of the 6 years old girl earlier this week.http://www.sunstar.com.ph/cebu/local-news/search-childs-killers-continueshttp://globalnation.inquirer.net/region/philippines/view/20110213-320020/Filipina-Norwegian-held-for-murder-of-6-year-old-girl-in-CebuI really hope they will solve this crime and the guilty will be punished hardWhat do we know about this?

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Mr Lee
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Here are som links to Sunstar and Inquier about the horrible murder of the 6 years old girl earlier this week.http://www.sunstar.c...llers-continueshttp://globalnation....ld-girl-in-CebuI really hope they will solve this crime and the guilty will be punished hardWhat do we know about this?
I do not know much about this, but if they are guilty of this heinous crime, then I hope they tie them both down in a open jail cell and let every prisoner in the prison rape the both of them as many times as they can, all day and everyday until they both die.
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Mr Lee
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Well it seems these two are adamant that it was not them and seem to have an itinerary which might prove it. I have been told in the past that we all look alike, so could this be a case of possible mistaken identity? or someone trying hard to collect the reward, rather than trying to catch the real killer? In the story they say the girl was used for child porn, so if that is true then why did they apparently not catch any porn on the suspects. There are a lot of unanswered questions on this one and none of us should just to any conclusions just yet. I do hope they catch the correct people responsible and punish them, but I also would hate for an innocent person to end up in jail just because he is a round eye.Detained due to sketches: Suspects in girl's killing arrested

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Mr Lee
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Some more info Did police get right couple? which leads me to think they got the wrong couple and I hope that they have more evidence than the words of children being shown just the one persons photo. I do not like how this is playing out, and we all need to be very careful to not get caught up in some overzealous police officers, and people seeking out the reward money. The below sentence scares the hell out of me and should scare the hell out of anyone when an alibi which consists of witnesses who know a person was not able to be at the scene of the crime, holds less weight than witnesses who do not identify from a photo line up but only from a passport and scetch.

Enriquez said positive identification “cannot be overcome” by alibis.
That sentence sounds to me like it was spoken by keystone cop mentality. We are all in deep sh*t IMHO if this is how the law is applied here.
Digal, lawyer Kit Enriquez and Provincial Attorney Martinquila faced the witnesses at the CPPO conference room yesterday. Digal showed the passports and sketches to them, and then the lawyers asked if they were the couple who abducted Ellah last Tuesday. The children confirmed.
While this couple may very well be guilty, they may also be totally innocent and it seems to me like they are being railroaded, in order to get this case closed fast.
In a forum yesterday, Director Digal admitted his office is not pursuing any otherleads not related to the Norwegian and his girlfriend, even though the Norwegian community in Cebu may have another suspect in mind.
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Tom in Texas
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Total BullSh*tThere is not even a remote resemblance between the sketches and the two suspects.... other than one is caucasion and one asian. In any fair trial, these non-matching sketches alone would provide reasonable doubt as to their guilt. The eyewitness "identifications" are ridiculous. The suspects were not picked out of multi-party lineups... but rather pointed at by the police who asked the witnesses if these were the persons they saw. Again, in most first world countries such identifications would be inadmissible, and the witnesses, having now been tainted, would not even be allowed to make an identification at trial.The father of the victim "identified" the suspects based on a sign (a scent he smelled when he looked at the suspects) which was sent to him by his deceased daughter from the great hereafter. Someone should be fired for letting this crap occur and get into the press. The couple claims to have a verifiable alibi for being at the Waterfront Hotel at the time of the abduction. Can their alibi be verified? That seems to be being ignored by the press.Does the couple own or have access to the "black car with brown stripes" and the partial plate number provided by the witnesses?These folks "may" be guilty of this crime... just as any other caucasion-asian couple who were in the PH on the day in question... but so far, what has been reported is Total BullSh*t.

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Jake
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Total BullSh*tThere is not even a remote resemblance between the sketches and the two suspects.... other than one is caucasion and one asian. In any fair trial, these non-matching sketches alone would provide reasonable doubt as to their guilt. The eyewitness "identifications" are ridiculous. The suspects were not picked out of multi-party lineups... but rather pointed at by the police who asked the witnesses if these were the persons they saw. Again, in most first world countries such identifications would be inadmissible, and the witnesses, having now been tainted, would not even be allowed to make an identification at trial.The father of the victim "identified" the suspects based on a sign (a scent he smelled when he looked at the suspects) which was sent to him by his deceased daughter from the great hereafter. Someone should be fired for letting this crap occur and get into the press. The couple claims to have a verifiable alibi for being at the Waterfront Hotel at the time of the abduction. Can their alibi be verified? That seems to be being ignored by the press.Does the couple own or have access to the "black car with brown stripes" and the partial plate number provided by the witnesses?These folks "may" be guilty of this crime... just as any other caucasion-asian couple who were in the PH on the day in question... but so far, what has been reported is Total BullSh*t.
I love it when our resident counsel has his pantyhose up too tight. Tom litigates like a fire breathing dragon on steroids.The itemized bullets are very significant arguments. Well done, my friend!Respectfully -- Jake
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Markham
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The below sentence scares the hell out of me and should scare the hell out of anyone when an alibi which consists of witnesses who know a person was not able to be at the scene of the crime, holds less weight than witnesses who do not identify from a photo line up but only from a passport and scetch.
Enriquez said positive identification “cannot be overcome” by alibis.
That sentence sounds to me like it was spoken by keystone cop mentality. We are all in deep sh*t IMHO if this is how the law is applied here.
No, Lee, not quite. The law here is that a live witness who will testify that he/she saw someone at a particular location is enough to convict that person. Any alibi he produces - other than his own live witness (who can state that the accused was elsewhere at the time) - is discounted. This means that the certificate Berger's lawyer has obtained from the Norwegian Language School in Cebu - which shows that both Berger and his fiancee were at that school at the time when he is supposed to have been in Minglanilla (20+ miles away) - carries no weight. Nor does CCTV footage of him checking-in to the Cebu Waterfront, after they left the Language School.T^he Prosecutor may also be using a self-confessed Pimp who claims to have met Berger in Colon - one hour and fifty minutes before Berger actually arrived in Cebu on board a Cathay Pacific flight from Hong Kong. The live witness (the Pimp)'s testimony carries more weight than the Immigration Arrivals' stamp in Berger's Passport.Political pressure is being placed - in the form of the Governor - and the case is being handled by the Provincial Prosecutor who appears to be ignoring evidence that doesn't fit his prosecution case.None of the witnesses have identified Berger or his girlfriend in person. The Prosecutor is relying on identification using the artist's sketches and the suspects' passport photos. And the principal witnesses are three very young school children who yesterday were given presents by the Governor - draw your own conclusions! Being a former Police Officer, you will know that young children are not reliable witnesses. They seldom are able to assimilate and recall fine detail - such as faces - but are a bit better on simpler shapes - such as the car that was used. Plus they're under pressure and children naturally want to please adults.
The father of the victim "identified" the suspects based on a sign (a scent he smelled when he looked at the suspects) which was sent to him by his deceased daughter from the great hereafter. Someone should be fired for letting this crap occur and get into the press. The couple claims to have a verifiable alibi for being at the Waterfront Hotel at the time of the abduction. Can their alibi be verified? That seems to be being ignored by the press.
They claim they were at the Norwegian Language School at the time of the abduction and their lawyer has obtained a certificate from that School as evidence. They went to the Waterfront by taxi straight from the school. Mark
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Mr Lee
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No, Lee, not quite. The law here is that a live witness who will testify that he/she saw someone at a particular location is enough to convict that person. Any alibi he produces - other than his own live witness (who can state that the accused was elsewhere at the time) - is discounted. This means that the certificate Berger's lawyer has obtained from the Norwegian Language School in Cebu - which shows that both Berger and his fiancee were at that school at the time when he is supposed to have been in Minglanilla (20+ miles away) - carries no weight. Nor does CCTV footage of him checking-in to the Cebu Waterfront, after they left the Language School.T^he Prosecutor may also be using a self-confessed Pimp who claims to have met Berger in Colon - one hour and fifty minutes before Berger actually arrived in Cebu on board a Cathay Pacific flight from Hong Kong. The live witness (the Pimp)'s testimony carries more weight than the Immigration Arrivals' stamp in Berger's Passport.Political pressure is being placed - in the form of the Governor - and the case is being handled by the Provincial Prosecutor who appears to be ignoring evidence that doesn't fit his prosecution case.None of the witnesses have identified Berger or his girlfriend in person. The Prosecutor is relying on identification using the artist's sketches and the suspects' passport photos. And the principal witnesses are three very young school children who yesterday were given presents by the Governor - draw your own conclusions! Being a former Police Officer, you will know that young children are not reliable witnesses. They seldom are able to assimilate and recall fine detail - such as faces - but are a bit better on simpler shapes - such as the car that was used. Plus they're under pressure and children naturally want to please adults. Mark
And we probably all look alike to them, so while I do not wish to insult this country, if those are the laws, then they are laws from the stone age and really need to be changed, or many innocent people might end up in jail. I can only hope that the fellows government and possibly the expat community gets involved and finds the real killer. IMHO with laws such as that, none of us should even be in this country and if it were not for my wife, then I would pack up and leave in protest.
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FlyAway
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Eye witness... he said - she said, they saw.... etc. All this is going to come down to the professionalism and integrity of the investigating and prosecuting authorities. Hopefully they do not let personal ego get involved. Society there is based so much on saving face. Last thing anyone will admit to is being wrong about anything no matter what.Pride and ego often get in the way of the truth and hard facts. An investigator can hone in on one suspect and be blinded to other evidence around them. It happens everywhere in the world.

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Mr Lee
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Eye witness... he said - she said, they saw.... etc. All this is going to come down to the professionalism and integrity of the investigating and prosecuting authorities. Hopefully they do not let personal ego get involved. Society there is based so much on saving face. Last thing anyone will admit to is being wrong about anything no matter what.Pride and ego often get in the way of the truth and hard facts. An investigator can hone in on one suspect and be blinded to other evidence around them. It happens everywhere in the world.
I totally agree, and the sad part is that if this couple is innocent, then the police have given the guilty party plenty of time to get off Cebu, or even out of the Philippines, to possibly never get caught for their crime. We can only hope the NBI uses their quality investigative skills and that they do not allow a possibly innocent couple to end up taking the fall. Boy what a hell this must be for them, if they are indeed innocent. It is true that many Filipinas look alike or similar to me, so I am guessing many look alike or similar to others as well.

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