How close are you to your Philippine immediate family and relatives?

[Jake]

4 hours ago, Queenie O. said:

I think that as fellow humans, we all share hopes and dreams for ourselves and others. I've had meaningful conversations on a basic level with Filipinos here at times, It's difficult to really be yourself with many here though, because nobody really ever asks you much about yourself, and if they did, they couldn't relate about most things anyway.

My husband, as a Filipino that spent several years living abroad in a western culture, it seems particularly hurtful and frustrating for him at times.

Wow Queenie, your essay is a timely reminder about cultural differences, the frustrations and disappointments in trying to adapt in a strange land.  You situation is definitely NOT unique and I could only imagine how your husband feels dealing with his native culture.  There are no easy answers here, every situation even the ones that are exactly the same, may need to be handled in a totally different way.  

I guess it all depends on our tolerance level or willingness to adjust, even to the point of just giving up.  In my case, a long time ago.....I did just that.  I escaped and returned back to the states (1997) without my wife.  I was too Americanized and frustrated beyond the breaking point -- Judy's mother was the most corrupt person I have ever met. Her mother was considered to be within the inner circle of Imelda M, which made me very uncomfortable.  I did not want that public exposure. I'm a low profile type of guy and my comfort zone was like living in a muddy fox hole.  

Excellent reading Queenie!  Veteran and newbie expats alike.....we're not in Kansas anymore with all that milk and honey.  Respectfully Jake

Edited March 3, 2017 by Jake

[expatuk2014]

I met my Filipina wife online in 2001 married her in 2002 here in the Philippines.

And due to my work i only had 3 weeks here in the Phillipines and had to leave my new wife

Here , she was a Gov employee and had a lot of things to sort out before she was allowed to retire

And leave the country, she eventually joined me in the UK in August 2002!

But her mother hid away from her on the day she left! As they had had a row as her mother did not

Want her to go to the UK ! The wife got a job with the NHS  4 months later we gets a phone call

From her younger sister as one of her brothers was ill and needed money !

The response from his 4 brothers was" Mercy killing " which had my wife in tears .

The next day we wired 1000 pounds to her sister, the brother who was ill was the mothers favourite

He got better and we gets another phone call from the sister, and the mother asked to speak to my wife

And the mother apologised to her, and up untill 2011 we paid for 2 nephews to go to college .

Sadly the brother was ill passed away in March 2011.

We retired to the Philippines in October 2011 we lived in the wifes small home at the back of the family

Compound her yonger sister  lived in her small home, and the mother lived in the main Family home

Which my wife had paid for to be built.

Overall the family know how much money we get a month and from the day we arrived we paid all the utility bills

And bought all the food etc for us , the sister and mother and soon the mother was telling all of her friends

How good my wife and i was !

But like the UK it takes a family death to show who is who!

The eldest son died and there was a row over who was going to pay for the funeral etc.

And then 2 years ago the mother died after a long illness, and again a row about who was going to pay

And this was on the evening after the funeral ! One  of the brothers ( G ) got upset and began accusing my wife

Of not caring enough for the mother i literally blew my top!

And as my wife and i had spent thousands caring for her mother ( inc 24 hour nursing care special milk 

at 7000 pesos a time , 3 times a week, hospitals bills etc ) i took my wife out of the family meeting.

I later went back to the meeting where the other brothers were all rowing, as i walked in they stopped

rowing and i told the bother ( G ) " You should be ashamed of yourself !", " We have just buried your mother and yes my mother also !, And here you are arguing about money, you disgust me ! "

This shook the rest of the family who considered me to a quiet shyish man !

And as i turned to leave i said " i personaly will pay all the funeral costs on behalf of myself and your sister "

Brother ( G ) has not spoken to me since.

As far as i am concerned l married my wife because i love her and family problems are all part of life

No matter what.

 

 

 

[SNAFU]

Oh my...thank you Queenie, and all who have chimed in, on a topic that I have resisted posting/replying since my initial forum membership over 3 years ago - perhaps out of embarrassment, fear of criticism or just pride. I won't waste bandwidth with the myriad of sad "family stories" I could tell, because I (now) doubt that they would even surprise 99.9% of our forum membership. Besides, your essay and replies have captured the central themes of most of my stories already. The only thing I will add, however, is that a simple "thank you, maraming salamat" is rarely forthcoming or genuine, but would sure mean the world to my asawa and I every once and awhile. I just don't get that.  BTW, to answer your question, over time... we're now close with just a few family members, any we sleep just fine at night.

[Queenie O.]

5 hours ago, Jake said:

I guess it all depends on our tolerance level or willingness to adjust, even to the point of just giving up.  In my case, a long time ago.....I did just that.  I escaped and returned back to the states (1997) without my wife.  I was too Americanized and frustrated beyond the breaking point -- Judy's mother was the most corrupt person I have ever met. Her mother was considered to be within the inner circle of Imelda M, which made me very uncomfortable.  I did not want that public exposure. I'm a low profile type of guy and my comfort zone was like living in a muddy fox hole.  

Excellent reading Queenie!  Veteran and newbie expats alike.....we're not in Kansas anymore with all that milk and honey.  Respectfully Jake

Thanks Jake--as usual you step in and your insight and understanding always makes me feel better. As a fellow Filipino, I was surprised but relieved that you could relate to especially my husband's situation. I'm sorry that your situation was unbearable to the point of going back to the States, but you seemed to work out your situation for the best for you up to now. 

We are both committed to making our life here, and it will be up to us as you say to find a tolerance level for this type of behavior, and to figure out who and how much we are willing to still help and maintain a relationship with. It will not be an  issue that will ever go away, but being  that we live about a ten minute drive from most family and extended family in the next town, we have some distance to be able to find peace and regroup when we need to.

Thanks for your honest insights Jake. Like others' input here, it is heartening to know that this struggle is quite real and common for many here in the Philippines. How to approach and deal  with it will be up to each individual and couple I guess.

[Queenie O.]

4 hours ago, SNAFU said:

Oh my...thank you Queenie, and all who have chimed in, on a topic that I have resisted posting/replying since my initial forum membership over 3 years ago - perhaps out of embarrassment, fear of criticism or just pride. I won't waste bandwidth with the myriad of sad "family stories" I could tell, because I (now) doubt that they would even surprise 99.9% of our forum membership. Besides, your essay and replies have captured the central themes of most of my stories already. The only thing I will add, however, is that a simple "thank you, maraming salamat" is rarely forthcoming or genuine, but would sure mean the world to my asawa and I every once and awhile. I just don't get that.  BTW, to answer your question, over time... we're now close with just a few family members, any we sleep just fine at night.

I'm glad Snafu, that I could put in writing what you and many others struggle with too. it is frustrating that even with trying to do the right thing, it's often just another barrier to the next challenge with immediate and extended family here. Don't get us started on the simple "thank you" in response to any help. for the most part it's just not forthcoming here for most people. As Mike J. explained, appreciation can often lead to expectations, which often in my experience leads to a sense of entitlement for some. This is mostly felt with immediate family, but can also trickle down to extended family as well.

It really doesn't matter whether an individual or couple can well afford to help, or if they are on a fixed income and a tight budget--the expectations, outcomes and often. bitterness and resentments are the same.

We have decided to step back on trying to draw the family closer with holiday social occasions. It just doesn't seem to be working out the way that we had hoped it would. We'll still get together with the family that seem closest to us, and believe me, learning to say no and accept the response, with family jealousies and resentments  something we'll both have to live with. I'm working on sticking with my best instincts, and sleeping well with my/our decisions too. 

[Queenie O.]

5 hours ago, expatuk2014 said:

As far as i am concerned l married my wife because i love her and family problems are all part of life

No matter what.

Thanks for your insights Tuk. I see now that they are shared by many. Part and parcel of living the life here that we choose and find happiness with in many other ways.

It reminds me of a saying that my father used to use--"The road to Hell is paved with good intentions." In my interpretation that you often get shot down for trying to do the right thing.

Making our way through these challenges is just something that we'll all have to decide and deal with on in some way or other I guess, in living out our lives here.

[davewe]

For me this is going to be a very interesting adjustment when I move to the Philippines very soon. Like many Americans I grew up in a pretty disconnected family. I live 3000 miles away from most everyone else. My father hasn't spoken to a single family member in over a decade. My brother moved to Florida and disappeared for years until I hired a PI to find him (wasn't hard). The list goes on. The fact is that as much as I dreamed of a more connected family, there were advantages to ours being so distant. Plane tickets were infrequently bought; long distance charges were modest.

In the Philippines, many family problems seem to come from the connections of the family. They all know each other's business, who makes what, who paid for what, whose sleeping with who, etc. As a married person with a wife who has 9 siblings, I already know more about most of her siblings than I do about my own brother (he's not a big talker). So while I have some trepidations, and will try my best to hold onto my wallet, I am kinda looking forward to the difference.

Edited March 3, 2017 by davewe

[robert k]

Queenie is spot on as usual! In many cases new family members have not seen what it took to become however successful you are. Decades of the daily grind, working so much overtime that sometimes it came directly from your sleep. The times through no fault of your own you had to find a new job...or even career! They didn't see you lose everything and rise again, usually with the help of family, who you have helped in return.

Arrive in the Philippines and your extended family who doesn't know you, who don't know the sacrifice you have made to have accumulated a nest egg? You are just the rich foreigner. They were not there when you needed help. I don't believe that Filipinos feel more strongly about helping family than I do, but I also believe that many Filipinos don't consider you "family" just because you married into theirs...unless they need money. Many don't have the concept of what it took to earn the money you have and the willpower it took not to spend all of it as fast as you could make it. I have no doubt they would be SHOCKED to find me agonizing over whether I need something, a 1k php purchase and on the same day spend a 1 million php purchase and not bat an eye for a needed durable good of lasting quality. I think it's beyond their experience.

I don't believe you can totally hold it against the "outlaws" as I have heard someone call them, because they weren't there for you. Help will be on a need basis and not on a want basis. I'm not going to be the expat who bought his BIL a commercial tricycle because the BIL needed a way to support himself and his family and the BIL rented out the trike and stayed home and asked for money to repair the trike, Gas money (because seemingly nobody needed rides but the tires wore out anyway) even asked for a second trike so he could expand the family business! Of renting out franchised trikes I suppose? I would want my inlaws and family to do well, who wouldn't? To that end I'm willing to help if there appears a decent chance of success. I'm not going to pay for parties though. I will help with medical when warranted but I will not be setting up as competition for "Dave Hounddriver Care" I'm not Philhealth. If I pay for a funeral, they better not make a miraculous recovery and die again a few months later! Yes, you read that right. One of my favorite stories I've read here.

I will try like heck to communicate what I will and will not do. I will explain that I don't say let me think about it as a way of saying no, I will give you the full respect of telling you no! If someone wants to badmouth me because I won't pay for their vacation or party? I will just smile and the next time they really need help they will have to get someone else to ask. Hopefully the SO will behind the scenes tell everyone that I'm a bastard. Then everyone can be amazed by my occasional generosity, which isn't that bad, for a bastard.

Everyone would like to have good relations with the family, I'm sure. I would do whatever I need to to make sure there is a broad line between valued member of the tribe and abused toady and I'm not stepping over that line to the abused toady side. Some distance may not hurt if things don't go great because sometimes familiarity does breed contempt. It would be great to have some family help on things but many Filipinos have never done things many of us take for granted, never had the money to do it so they never needed to know. If you want to buy a car or motorcycle from an individual, go to the LTO office where you are going to register it and ask for their requirements, not just the general requirements. If you do any online research, you may know more about a subject than the natives do themselves. That was a big lesson learned. I would recommend that if things aren't going well with family DON'T wait until you are totally sick of it, speak up before the relationships are beyond repair because things don't get better on their own. At least that is the right advise for me and I offer it up for everyone else, better a skirmish than a war in my opinion.

[Queenie O.]

2 hours ago, davewe said:

 

In the Philippines, many family problems seem to come from the connections of the family. They all know each other's business, who makes what, who paid for what, whose sleeping with who, etc. As a married person with a wife who has 9 siblings, I already know more about most of her siblings than I do about my own brother (he's not a big talker). So while I have some trepidations, and will try my best to hold onto my wallet, I am kinda looking forward to the difference.

I see where you're coming from Dave. It will be a new family experience for you, and I wish you well in your experiences. For us it's not really the cost of help, but the lack of respect or emotional give and take that comes with helping someone. I agree that over time, you will know your new family's whole story with all the ups and downs and drama, but few will ever take the time to get to know you, You are often in my perception just viewed as a party giver, potential favor or money provider. I'm not saying everyone is like that, but sadly sometimes it seems that way for many family members. I consider my husband and I to be pretty kind people, but nobody wants to be a sucker either. That's how I feel sometimes with some family members. I'm not going to let that happen anymore.

[Queenie O.]

1 hour ago, robert k said:

Queenie is spot on as usual! In many cases new family members have not seen what it took to become however successful you are. Decades of the daily grind, working so much overtime that sometimes it came directly from your sleep. The times through no fault of your own you had to find a new job...or even career! They didn't see you lose everything and rise again, usually with the help of family, who you have helped in return.

Arrive in the Philippines and your extended family who doesn't know you, who don't know the sacrifice you have made to have accumulated a nest egg? You are just the rich foreigner. They were not there when you needed help. I don't believe that Filipinos feel more strongly about helping family than I do, but I also believe that many Filipinos don't consider you "family" just because you married into theirs...unless they need money. Many don't have the concept of what it took to earn the money you have and the willpower it took not to spend all of it as fast as you could make it. I have no doubt they would be SHOCKED to find me agonizing over whether I need something, a 1k php purchase and on the same day spend a 1 million php purchase and not bat an eye for a needed durable good of lasting quality. I think it's beyond their experience.

I don't believe you can totally hold it against the "outlaws" as I have heard someone call them, because they weren't there for you. Help will be on a need basis and not on a want basis. I'm not going to be the expat who bought his BIL a commercial tricycle because the BIL needed a way to support himself and his family and the BIL rented out the trike and stayed home and asked for money to repair the trike, Gas money (because seemingly nobody needed rides but the tires wore out anyway) even asked for a second trike so he could expand the family business! Of renting out franchised trikes I suppose? I would want my inlaws and family to do well, who wouldn't? To that end I'm willing to help if there appears a decent chance of success. I'm not going to pay for parties though. I will help with medical when warranted but I will not be setting up as competition for "Dave Hounddriver Care" I'm not Philhealth. If I pay for a funeral, they better not make a miraculous recovery and die again a few months later! Yes, you read that right. One of my favorite stories I've read here.

I will try like heck to communicate what I will and will not do. I will explain that I don't say let me think about it as a way of saying no, I will give you the full respect of telling you no! If someone wants to badmouth me because I won't pay for their vacation or party? I will just smile and the next time they really need help they will have to get someone else to ask. Hopefully the SO will behind the scenes tell everyone that I'm a bastard. Then everyone can be amazed by my occasional generosity, which isn't that bad, for a bastard.

Everyone would like to have good relations with the family, I'm sure. I would do whatever I need to to make sure there is a broad line between valued member of the tribe and abused toady and I'm not stepping over that line to the abused toady side. Some distance may not hurt if things don't go great because sometimes familiarity does breed contempt. It would be great to have some family help on things but many Filipinos have never done things many of us take for granted, never had the money to do it so they never needed to know. If you want to buy a car or motorcycle from an individual, go to the LTO office where you are going to register it and ask for their requirements, not just the general requirements. If you do any online research, you may know more about a subject than the natives do themselves. That was a big lesson learned. I would recommend that if things aren't going well with family DON'T wait until you are totally sick of it, speak up before the relationships are beyond repair because things don't get better on their own. At least that is the right advise for me and I offer it up for everyone else, better a skirmish than a war in my opinion.

Thanks for your kind support Robert, and I say that you too are spot on, and made me laugh a little more about all the truths that you tell. My shared feelings too, as well as many others I would think. I think it's important that although these challenges are real, they are not insurmountable, and just working through them honestly with yourself can work out a compromise that we can live comfortably with.