Saving Face

[retired]

Fully realise that i will most likely be opening the proverbial can of worms here with this topic but it is one i believe based on personal experience that is of interest for many expats . Have heard everything from expats through the years from " you will never understand it because :A It's a Filipino thing and you are not FilipinoB You come from a first world country and this is a third world country .C Filipinos themselves can't give you a rational explanation for " saving face " .D Being from a first world western culture you tend to be left - brain oriented (logic) versus right brain oriented ( artistic ) Asian culture which is not primarily logic oriented . ( Best rational i have found through the years and does have scientific based studies to back . )Just an opinion based on 10 - 11 years of personal experience from having lived in this country but to me one of the " major " reasons this country never seems to progress is based on the " saving face : concept . This is something that occurs at the grass roots level of this culture and by extension ( at least to me ) has a lot to do with why Filipinos are so reluctant to speak out or as us yanks say " stand up for themselves " . Please understand that none of this post is meant to be critical per say but observational though i fully realise it will be perceived based on the objectivity of the reader . Through the years i have found that " saving face " has meant the loss of multiple friendships and from my personal perspective none of those looses had to occur . It may just be me but i have seen so many instances of this occurring through the years that i see " saving face " as primarily a self - delusional act . In other words the Filipino thinks they have saved face when in reality they have not saved face at all to anyone but themselves .Example : I go out for the day knowing i have 4 " red coffee cups " and i return to find that i have 2 red coffee cups . Now , being a logic oriented person i assume that 2 cups were broken when washed or someone took 2 cups out of the house . Frankly , i could care less what happened to the coffee cups as they are only coffee cups . What i do care about however is when i ask what happened to the coffee cups and get no answer . To my knowledge spirits /wak waks don't need coffee cups . Now i have a problem .I have a problem because i doubt the people in my house . Many other instances through the years most always regarding having loaned small amounts of money to some one and when they can not pay back they don't bother to give you an explanation . For me an explanation or apology would suffice . What bothers me is that neither occurs and a friendship dissolves over someone's ego ?Example : You provide a service to me two or three times a month for which i pay you . You borrow money and can't pay back when you intended . But , instead of just explaining to me you disappear . A - You have lost your best customer ; B - You could have provided the service and i could have simply reduced your debt C - You have lost a friendship which may have lasted for years . Why ? Because you have been raised to believe that running away from your personal issues in life is the answer ?This of course gets back to previous posts about lack of responsibility in this culture . Don't get me wrong . I love many things about Philippine culture . I just don't like " Saving Face ' because to me it creates more problems than it solves .Opinions welcome as well as personal experience . but please don't crucify me ... :-)

[Steve & Myrlita]

You will find that saving face superceeds all else here. You can even find yourself in jail or dead for allegedly causing one here to lose face.

[Jollygoodfellow]

I suppose its one of those things that are just part of life. We are all members of different tribes of the world, each tribe has a different way or belief but only if you belong to another tribe do you think the others ways are unusual or perhaps down right wrong.Does this bother the Filipinos? I mean if they think they have saved face then I guess they have because only that person knows how they feel.But I'm rambling and its getting late and will think more about this face issue tomorrow. :thumbsup:

[Jake]

Fully realise that i will most likely be opening the proverbial can of worms here with this topic but it is one i believe based on personal experience that is of interest for many expats . Have heard everything from expats through the years from " you will never understand it because :A It's a Filipino thing and you are not FilipinoB You come from a first world country and this is a third world country .C Filipinos themselves can't give you a rational explanation for " saving face " .D Being from a first world western culture you tend to be left - brain oriented (logic) versus right brain oriented ( artistic ) Asian culture which is not primarily logic oriented . ( Best rational i have found through the years and does have scientific based studies to back . )Just an opinion based on 10 - 11 years of personal experience from having lived in this country but to me one of the " major " reasons this country never seems to progress is based on the " saving face : concept . This is something that occurs at the grass roots level of this culture and by extension ( at least to me ) has a lot to do with why Filipinos are so reluctant to speak out or as us yanks say " stand up for themselves " . Please understand that none of this post is meant to be critical per say but observational though i fully realise it will be perceived based on the objectivity of the reader......This of course gets back to previous posts about lack of responsibility in this culture . Don't get me wrong . I love many things about Philippine culture . I just don't like " Saving Face ' because to me it creates more problems than it solves.....Opinions welcome as well as personal experience . but please don't crucify me ... :-)

Hello Retired,Please forgive me for dissecting your comments above -- it's my way of highlighting your bullets for furtherdiscussion. First off, I really appreciate you opening up this can of worms. You certainly have the finesseof articulating your 10 plus years experience into a well written editorial. This forum always welcome hottopics and for the most part, the members here are typically emotional but will never crucify the OP for statingthe obvious.Your analogy about the left vs the right brain hemisphere is a head shot bulls eye in my book. One of myfavorite columnist is Ramon Tulfo from Philippine Daily Inquirer. He recently wrote this piece about Filipinos'bahala na mind set: http://newsinfo.inqu...rt-their-rights.In closing, I really appreciate your article with my morning coffee! Thank you sir.Respectfully -- Jake (retarded from USN)

[daisy]

Even before he was writing this one, I have my eyes rolling and my eyebrows rising.........., he said, "you read it when I'm done"As always, I would say, a long time ago I stop being critical about anything but I'll just have to do whatever is good, better and best! It is safer and it brings result! :as-if:Anyway, we don't need to agree in everything in order to respect each other's opinion...we will always agree to disagree...it's more fun and a mind sharpener all in one!

Edited March 22, 2012 by daisy

[Jack Peterson]

:thumbsup: As long as there is a Cup, to have my Morning Coffe, I am a happy man! Even The disposable ones left from the party will do. For me, it is the Coffee that is Important. :541:Jack P.

[Higg-num]

Hmmmmm. Are you guys telling me that it is Philippine culture to practice dishonesty ? How is then that one could possibly build trust in any sort of relationship ? Please explain to me then how " Honor " is defined there.

[Jack Peterson]

:thumbsup: When I needed a yard brush with longer bristles, to get under a Thorny bush, My 87 year old Mother-in-Law made me one from Twigs, When I wanted to Roast a Turkey, my nephews made an outside Spit and Roasted 2 for me. Using scrap and whatever was to hand. When I could not Find My jack to Change a Flat tyre, From Nowhere, came 5/6 neighbours, 10 minute job done. When I lost 4 tiles from the Roof, Our house boy Thatched the Area for the Weekend.Simple life with enginuity. " Necessity, Is the Mother of Invention" Something We westerners, Foreigners, never knew or have Forgotten, 3rd World! mmmm I wonder. Money, Infrastructure, Technology maybe. FOR, Every day Living, now we are talking. Give me here at Home anyday.Jack P. :mocking:

[daisy]

Hmmmmm. Are you guys telling me that it is Philippine culture to practice dishonesty ? How is then that one could possibly build trust in any sort of relationship ? Please explain to me then how " Honor " is defined there.

In any culture, Philippines included, relationship built in lies will never prosper....in the context of honoring my husband, I would say, I submit, I respect and I love him. We know each others weaknesses and strengths. We give each other freedom of expressions and faith, although I never stop praying that at the end of the day, we will be ONE in worship.

[Dave Hounddriver]

Are you guys telling me that it is Philippine culture to practice dishonesty ? How is then that one could possibly build trust in any sort of relationship ?

Perhaps the Philippine concept of honesty is just different than it is in other cultures. Perhaps some have been taught that it is ok to do or say things that other cultures would consider dishonest because, as long as they confess their sins in church then God says it ok. Or perhaps they don't consider 'lying by omission' to be wrong.In any event, the way to build trust is to teach each other what you each consider acceptable.