How Many Informal Residents?

[JJReyes]

One of the items discussed during the Philippine Retirement & Health Summit is the number of informal residents in the Philippines. This would include foreign nationals who arrived on visa waivers with renewals until it is time to make a visa run; residents on a 13A visa; Balikbayans; and Fil-Ams who claim dual citizenship, but who never bothered to register with the government.

 

We used 180+ days in-country as the definition of a formal or informal resident. There was a family of three from Dumaguete seated at our table. Originally from India, the father is a retired pilot formerly with Philippine Airlines and EVA Airlines. I believe they are now Philippine citizens. He stood up to complain that many informal residents in Dumaguete want information and assistance on retirement visas, but the closest PRA office is Cebu. When asked how many informal residents in his area, the answer was, based on survey done by officials in seven barangays, is 3,000. When asked what nationality, he responded, "Germans!"

 

You should have seen all the heads that turned. Both the number and nationality were totally unexpected.

 

During the coffee break, the suggestion by a high ranking PRA official is to organize meetings in Dumaguete and the PRA will send a speaker to Dumaguete to make presentations and to answer questions. Another suggestion is for his wife to become a PRA agent for purposes of visa processing.and assistance. Out of the $1,400 visa application fee, $500 is given to the person who is helping the applicant. This is something for forum members to consider doing as a way to earn extra income. The visa requirements will be liberalized, which should increase the number of applicants.  I believe there are already several members of this forum in Cebu and Manila providing the service. The PRA needs more in other areas of the country.

 

 

[Thomas]

Interesting - How will the applicants find the local agents - Do each agent have to do all marketing by himself, or will PRA assist listing them at a website or such?

 

Is Dumaguete a "German colony"?

 

(I don't want to get such visitors to my calm home, because then it wouldn't be as calm no more  :)   but I can perhaps be interested in going to close province city/cities one day per week or so for meetings, after I have settled.)

[Beachboy]

Interesting question.  A 100,000 wouldn't surprise me (not counting Fil-Ams), given the fact that you can live in the Phils forever on a tourist visa as long as you follow the rules.  I do know the Philippine government hasn't a clue.  

[Markham]

One of the items discussed during the Philippine Retirement & Health Summit is the number of informal residents in the Philippines. This would include foreign nationals who arrived on visa waivers with renewals until it is time to make a visa run; residents on a 13A visa; Balikbayans; and Fil-Ams who claim dual citizenship, but who never bothered to register with the government.

Not sure why you're categorising 13(a) holders as "informal residents" when their Visas specifically provide for permanent residence and employment. To my mind, "informal residents" are those who do not have indefinite permission to remain in this country but who stay for periods exceeding six months. They include foreign students, visitors and those on Balikbayan privileges.

[i am bob]

Interesting - How will the applicants find the local agents - Do each agent have to do all marketing by himself, or will PRA assist listing them at a website or such?

 

Is Dumaguete a "German colony"?

 

(I don't want to get such visitors to my calm home, because then it wouldn't be as calm no more   :)   but I can perhaps be interested in going to close province city/cities one day per week or so for meetings, after I have settled.)

 

You would most likely do the work at their home or at the local office.  If you are assisting them to fill out the forms, all their information would be at their homes so it would be logical to do this where the information is - it saves rebooking appointments because one piece of information is missing.  But this is the Philippines and they may stipulate that it be done in a government office.  You won't know for sure unless you ask them.

[JJReyes]

Not sure why you're categorising 13(a) holders as "informal residents" when their Visas specifically provide for permanent residence and employment.

 

The discussion was to arrive at uniform definitions. The 13(a) visa holders were included because their initial arrival was through the visa waiver program. Another interesting iterm is "hospice care." In the United States, it means the person is expected to pass away within 90 days. Medicare then pays 80% and the family 20% for hospice care. This is the only time Medicare pays for pallative care. The patient is kept comfortable (drugged) and the instructions include, "Do Not Resuscitate." The discussions became complicated because the Singaporeans and Australians have their own terminology for the various stages of retirement and care services.

 

In the Philippines, hospice care is a facility outside of your home.

 

 

 

Interesting question. A 100,000 wouldn't surprise me (not counting Fil-Ams), given the fact that you can live in the Phils forever on a tourist visa as long as you follow the rules. I do know the Philippine government hasn't a clue.

 

You are correct. No one has an accurate number. The best anyone could offer is the data on the US Embassy Manila website.

The estimate is 300,000 American passport holders residing in the Philippines who are not embassy employees, members of a government mission (USAid) or military personnel. The guess is 100,000 to 150,000 if you eliminate students, Fil-Ams etc. So I raised the question, "What about the Europeans, Britons, Australians, Canadians, etc.?" The initial response was the numbers are minimal. That's when the family from Dumaguete mentioned that they have 3,000 informal residents in their community and the majority are Germans.

Edited May 4, 2013 by JJReyes

[Thomas]

You would most likely do the work at their home or at the local office.  If you are assisting them to fill out the forms, all their information would be at their homes so it would be logical to do this where the information is - it saves rebooking appointments because one piece of information is missing.  But this is the Philippines and they may stipulate that it be done in a government office.  You won't know for sure unless you ask them.

Which office? As I understood JJR, there isn't any such office in e g Dumaguete.

 

Well. Yes, some biger chance they have more documents at home,

but I guess most people don't have complete documents at home either  :)       So I thought having meetings close to somewhere they can get photos, meeting a few in same place at same day.  If they don't bring complete documents, then it isn't I, who have to do waste traveling. I like rationalisation  :)

[JJReyes]

Which office? As I understood JJR, there isn't any such office in e g Dumaguete.

 

When I visited the PRA main office at the Citibank Tower in Makati, there were Koreans with their agents waiting for their interview. One of the requirements for the retirement visa is for the applicant to make an appearance at the PRA main office or branch.

 

It was pointed out last year that this is impractical when the person has Alzheimer's or is already feeble and the location is a care facility in Bacolod City. What the PRA will do is send their representative to Bacolod City.

 

Similarly, if the informal residents in Dumaguete apply for retirement visas, every few months someone from the Cebu office can fly or take the ferry there to finalize the application process. The important thing is they are trying hard to make the process easier for everyone.

 

The agent's role is to make sure the application and paperwork are complete. In the situation of the Koreans I saw at the PRA office, they were also needed as translators.

Edited May 5, 2013 by JJReyes

[Thomas]

 

Which office? As I understood JJR, there isn't any such office in e g Dumaguete.

 

When I visited the PRA main office at the Citibank Tower in Makati, there were Koreans with their agents waiting for their interview. One of the requirements for the retirement visa is for the applicant to make an appearance at the PRA main office or branch.

 

It was pointed out last year that this is impractical when the person has Alzheimer's or is already feeble and the location is a care facility in Bacolod City. What the PRA will do is send their representative to Bacolod City.

 

Similarly, if the informal residents in Dumaguete apply for retirement visas, every few months someone from the Cebu office can fly or take the ferry there to finalize the application process. The important thing is they are trying hard to make the process easier for everyone.

 

The agent's role is to make sure the application and paperwork are complete. In the situation of the Koreans I saw at the PRA office, they were also needed as translators.

 

I see. Then I don't need to send my future wife with the documents to queue in Cebu  :)

 

Yes, foreign languages are often forgotten, so translator are more often needed to assist old people even when they could speak foreign languages when they where younger. 

(Actualy I were better in German than in English back in high school  :)   but doubtful I know enough German now to be a good translator, because of seldom used since then. But a friend, who plan to follow me moving to Phili, is Swedish-German.)

[Markham]

Not sure why you're categorising 13(a) holders as "informal residents" when their Visas specifically provide for permanent residence and employment.

 

The discussion was to arrive at uniform definitions. The 13(a) visa holders were included because their initial arrival was through the visa waiver program.

Then your whole premise is basically flawed. You assume that all 13(a) Visa holders were admitted to the country under the Visa Waiver system, when there is no supporting evidence for that. Some will certainly have been admitted under the VW system but equally others, like me, will have come here with 9(a) Visas and quite a number will have obtained their 13(a) in their home country.

You've singled-out 13(a) Visa holders, what about the remaining Section 13 Visa groups: are they classed as "informal" also? By your definition, SRRV holders are also "informal" as some may have arrived under the Visa Waiver system.