POGO

[craftbeerlover]

I saw this coming years ago, and mentioned it (maybe even on this forum).   During the last administration millions of chinese flooded into the Philippines.  Doors were left wide open for them to come here legally and illegally.  They completely abused the SRRV system etc etc etc...  My guess at that time was military and organized crime.   Hoping the Government does what needs to be done soon.    Just wondering how far they have already infiltrated. 

https://www.philstar.com/headlines/2024/06/11/2362063/senators-sound-alarm-after-pogo-raid-unearths-alleged-chinese-army-uniform

[Possum]

1 hour ago, craftbeerlover said:

I saw this coming years ago, and mentioned it (maybe even on this forum).   During the last administration millions of chinese flooded into the Philippines.  Doors were left wide open for them to come here legally and illegally.  They completely abused the SRRV system etc etc etc...  My guess at that time was military and organized crime.   Hoping the Government does what needs to be done soon.    Just wondering how far they have already infiltrated. 

https://www.philstar.com/headlines/2024/06/11/2362063/senators-sound-alarm-after-pogo-raid-unearths-alleged-chinese-army-uniform

By now the money both legal and illegal being made  by the officialdom here makes it unlikely much will be done other than many senate hearings before the elections. Such hearings generate publicity and contributions for the politicians so it's a win/win.

[craftbeerlover]

41 minutes ago, Possum said:

By now the money both legal and illegal being made  by the officialdom here makes it unlikely much will be done other than many senate hearings before the elections. Such hearings generate publicity and contributions for the politicians so it's a win/win.

Well, they are already raiding many pogo hubs and installations, and have deported hundreds and hundreds of chinese, so there is already much movement beyond the senate hearings.  The hub at clark and bambam have been completely closed down.   I think they are taking this threat seriously.  But the elephant in the room are the profits being made that I am sure many 'powerful' individuals do not want to lose, regardless of the impacts to the Philippines and Filipinos. 

[hk blues]

1 minute ago, craftbeerlover said:

Well, they are already raiding many pogo hubs and installations, and have deported hundreds and hundreds of chinese, so there is already much movement beyond the senate hearings.  The hub at clark and bambam have been completely closed down.   I think they are taking this threat seriously.  But the elephant in the room are the profits being made that I am sure many 'powerful' individuals do not want to lose, regardless of the impacts to the Philippines and Filipinos. 

It's highly possible that something is being done because something has to be seen to be being done so maybe the recent events are just a gesture without stepping too heavily on too many big toes.  Hopefully not. 

[Possum]

49 minutes ago, craftbeerlover said:

Well, they are already raiding many pogo hubs and installations, and have deported hundreds and hundreds of chinese, so there is already much movement beyond the senate hearings.  The hub at clark and bambam have been completely closed down.   I think they are taking this threat seriously.  But the elephant in the room are the profits being made that I am sure many 'powerful' individuals do not want to lose, regardless of the impacts to the Philippines and Filipinos. 

One big elephant in the room is the condo developers who have cashed in big time.

[graham59]

Thinking of a country run by clowns, conmen,  crazies, and crooks.  Aaah yes . 

[scott h]

I know I am probably in the minority on this subject, but I really think the Philippines missed the boat on this one, both strategically and tactically.  Strategically the Philippines has very few weapons to counter China, they could have used the POGO issue as a bargaining chip. You get your ships out of the WPS and we will close down the POGO's.

Tactically, the Philippines lost a substantial amount of jobs and tax revenue by banning POGO's. There were quite a few POGO's in my area. Daily I would see dozens of those white Hilux transport vans barreling down the street, each driven by a Filipino. Many times I had to wait behind them at a gas station as they filled their tanks. One nearby POGO had 3 Filipino owned Chinese restaurants (all closed now or turned into sari-sari stores) catering to POGO employees. My wife's masseuse would moonlight as a housekeeper at a condo building housing POGO workers (she said they were absolute pigs, as might be expected from 20 something men away from home the first time ) Occupancy of thousands and thousands of square meter of office space, one local brand-new mall complex near Mall of Asia had a POGO in it, the Robinsons there was packed with young Chinese men and women (clean cut and polite for the most part) as were the restaurants. The mall fell on hard times once the POGO shut down, but revived when a new tenant moved in. As a comical turn of events the POGO was replaced by a regional office of PAGOR the Philippine gaming office . Two large Chinese funded condo construction project employing any number of workers and buying supplies from local companies stopped work. One is finally nearing completion, the other is still a hole in the ground, abandoned. 

But due to legislative incompetence, inability of law enforcement to enforce current laws, incompetent or corrupt regulatory agencies they have chased out all the legitimate POGO's so that all that is left is the criminal element that will just continue operation until they are actually busted.

Oh well, its their country.

[craftbeerlover]

36 minutes ago, scott h said:

Strategically the Philippines has very few weapons to counter China, they could have used the POGO issue as a bargaining chip. You get your ships out of the WPS and we will close down the POGO's.

With all due respect (my opinion of course), that is a big NOT.   I have a hard time believing that you actually believe that statement.

 

36 minutes ago, scott h said:

incompetent or corrupt regulatory agencies they have chased out all the legitimate POGO's so that all that is left is the criminal element

You do not believe Pogo was synonymous with being a criminal element in the first place?   Really?   They were busting them for sex trafficking, kidnapping, murder, prostitution, money laundering etc., from the get go, not to mention possible/probable sleeper agents.  Throw on top of that an incompetent and corrupt regulatory agency and you get exactly what is happening.  

Edited June 11 by Old55
Personal attack.

[scott h]

5 minutes ago, craftbeerlover said:

I have a hard time believing that you actually believe that statement.

IMO ANY bargaining chip is better than none, hundreds if not thousands of "diplomatic" approaches have yielded nada, zilch, nothing.

8 minutes ago, craftbeerlover said:

You do not believe Pogo was synonymous with being a criminal element in the first place?  

I believe that the majority of the pre-pandemic POGO's were legit, in fact I would walk past them almost daily as well as the condos where the "workers" lived. I rubbed shoulders with them in the supermarket. Overall I found them courteous and respectful, just like the vast majority of Filipino OFW workers I have encountered worldwide.

15 minutes ago, craftbeerlover said:

sex trafficking, kidnapping, murder, prostitution, money laundering etc

Those are the POGO's that a left, a couple of years ago, due to public pressure, operating costs were raised to make it unprofitable to operate here. The legit POGO's moved to Cambodia and other SEA countries. As I said, the ones that are left operate without license, protected by corrupts officials until they are finally shut down. Notice that in all the recent raids, no "big fish" are caught, just the worker bees.

20 minutes ago, craftbeerlover said:

Throw on top of that an incompetent and corrupt regulatory agency and you get exactly what is happening.

On this we agree completely! 

My major point is that the Philippines through ineptitude, corruption and mismanagement threw away a golden opportunity. 

Here is an opinion piece about this that just came out in todays Philstar newspaper

To kill a cash cow | Philstar.com 

[craftbeerlover]

27 minutes ago, scott h said:

IMO ANY bargaining chip is better than none, hundreds if not thousands of "diplomatic" approaches have yielded nada, zilch, nothing.

I believe that the majority of the pre-pandemic POGO's were legit, in fact I would walk past them almost daily as well as the condos where the "workers" lived. I rubbed shoulders with them in the supermarket. Overall I found them courteous and respectful, just like the vast majority of Filipino OFW workers I have encountered worldwide.

Those are the POGO's that a left, a couple of years ago, due to public pressure, operating costs were raised to make it unprofitable to operate here. The legit POGO's moved to Cambodia and other SEA countries. As I said, the ones that are left operate without license, protected by corrupts officials until they are finally shut down. Notice that in all the recent raids, no "big fish" are caught, just the worker bees.

On this we agree completely! 

My major point is that the Philippines through ineptitude, corruption and mismanagement threw away a golden opportunity. 

Here is an opinion piece about this that just came out in todays Philstar newspaper

To kill a cash cow | Philstar.com 

We are going to have to agree to disagree.   I believe POGO is a haven for illegal activities, and is a magnet for criminal organizations and subsequent crimes that have been documented since they came to the Philippines.   I also believe that china is using POGO to place individuals in this country that are a potential national security risk.   Lastly, dangling POGO to the chinese to get them to relinquish their claim on the WPS is ...  I am trying to come up with a simile that does not sound sarcastic, and I am at a loss