What’S Wrong With The Philippines?

[stef]

this is a must read for all http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquirerheadlines/nation/view/20100821-287978/Whats-wrong-with-the-Philippines

[Mr Lee]

this is a must read for all http://newsinfo.inqu...the-Philippines

This is a very interesting article and it will be good if some members can discuss what they find within it, yet I find some of the thoughts baffling as an American since I do not believe that most Filipinos act like Americans at all, other than some speaking a form of English, so I found the below paragraph which depicts Filipinos to be little brown Americans confusing. Maybe others see some similarities and would like to express those but I find way too many dissimilarities than I find similarities. If the concept of the below line was correct, than most Americans should feel like they are home when living in the Philippines and I know that I do not feel it is even close in anyway to my country of origin. So what are the similarities? I would hope that some of you, and especially our Filipino American members who have lived in both places can read the article and tell us what similarities there are because I just cannot see hardly any, but maybe I am blind or have my head in the sand.    Filipinos are bewildered about their identity. They are an Asian people not Asian in the eyes of their fellow Asians and not Western in the eyes of the West. They are in Asia, but they know more about the Statue of Liberty than about Angkor Wat in Cambodia; more of the lyrics of Whitman than of Tagore or of their own Nick Joaquin; more of Patrick Henry’s soul-stirring liberty-or-death oratory than of the ageless wisdom of Confucius or Lao-tze. Lately, they have taken to insisting they are Asian but they are so American-oriented that—by reflex—they still react and respond like little brown Americans.

[UZI]

this is a must read for all http://newsinfo.inqu...the-Philippines

This is a very interesting article and it will be good if some members can discuss what they find within it, yet I find some of the thoughts baffling as an American since I do not believe that most Filipinos act like Americans at all, other than some speaking a form of English, so I found the below paragraph which depicts Filipinos to be little brown Americans confusing. Maybe others see some similarities and would like to express those but I find way too many dissimilarities than I find similarities. If the concept of the below line was correct, than most Americans should feel like they are home when living in the Philippines and I know that I do not feel it is even close in anyway to my country of origin. So what are the similarities? I would hope that some of you, and especially our Filipino American members who have lived in both places can read the article and tell us what similarities there are because I just cannot see hardly any, but maybe I am blind or have my head in the sand. Filipinos are bewildered about their identity. They are an Asian people not Asian in the eyes of their fellow Asians and not Western in the eyes of the West. They are in Asia, but they know more about the Statue of Liberty than about Angkor Wat in Cambodia; more of the lyrics of Whitman than of Tagore or of their own Nick Joaquin; more of Patrick Henry’s soul-stirring liberty-or-death oratory than of the ageless wisdom of Confucius or Lao-tze. Lately, they have taken to insisting they are Asian but they are so American-oriented that—by reflex—they still react and respond like little brown Americans.

Lee," I do not believe that most Filipinos act like Americans at all" ...........Really?Without even giving too much thought as it is late {sure I can do better after a nights sleep):Fast foodFat means being successfulPursuit of money is No1BasketballGood awful advertsGood awful soapsStar scandal tvView of the world according to HollywoodGunsCoffee joints (Starbucks etc)MallsLiving in gated sub divisionsSecurity guards everywhereSpelling (US vs English).............and with respect, you said it yourself "our Filipino American members" as in the word FILAM not FilBrit or FilNorge or FilOz etc. I would think that the terms 'KANO' & 'Hey Joe' would speak volumes. Remittances are quoted as $ even though OFW's work all over the world & the Peso is always valued against the $ above all else. Look at the AFP & their uniforms, NBI (FBI..!) police uniforms political system (President not Prime Minister) even the legal system.Any non American here I would hazard will wonder why you said "yet I find some of the thoughts baffling as an American since I do not believe that most Filipinos act like Americans at all" when all we see is Americanisms everywhere.Thankfully today's youth are looking more at Korean style & music, so at least it is a start at finding an Asian identity.Perhaps other members see things differently :508:Uzi.

[Mr Lee]

Lee," I do not believe that most Filipinos act like Americans at all" ...........Really?Without even giving too much thought as it is late {sure I can do better after a nights sleep):Fast foodFat means being successful  Pursuit of money is No1BasketballGood awful advertsGood awful soapsStar scandal tvView of the world according to HollywoodGunsCoffee joints (Starbucks etc)MallsLiving in gated sub divisionsSecurity guards everywhereSpelling (US vs English).............and with respect, you said it yourself "our Filipino American members" as in the word FILAM not FilBrit or FilNorge or FilOz etc. I would think that the terms 'KANO' & 'Hey Joe' would speak volumes. Remittances are quoted as $ even though OFW's work all over the world & the Peso is always valued against the $ above all else. Look at the AFP & their uniforms, NBI (FBI..!) police uniforms political system (President not Prime Minister) even the legal system.Any non American here I would hazard will wonder why you said "yet I find some of the thoughts baffling as an American since I do not believe that most Filipinos act like Americans at all" when all we see is Americanisms everywhere.Thankfully today's youth are looking more at Korean style & music, so at least it is a start at finding an Asian identity.Perhaps other members see things differently :508:Uzi.

Thanks for your input Uzi, first of all I did not say Kano because the article was comparing to the US so I said Filipino Americans so that maybe they could better compare than I could whereas a Filipino Brit or other who had not been to the US would have to compare to that country.Next I do not see Americans in Filipinos at all, they do not think like Americans, they do not act like Americans yet they do often try to have things which emulate America but that does not make them little brown Americans. Now let me try to tackle the items you listed(Fast food) Since I do not know what types of fast food places you have in the UK other than doing a search, I see the UK also has many of the things the US has, so does that mean your country copies the US or that your people are like the US, I think not or at least from what I have seen they try awful hard to not be considered to be like Americans.(Fat means being successful)  I believe getting fat might be more related to eating more fast and unhealthy foods than meaning successful in the US, yet it is seen as a sign of wealth in the Philippines from what I have been told, but not everyone who is rich in the US is fat or even wants to get fat and actually just the opposite, yet at the same time it does seem that many of the poor or uneducated in the US are getting fatter everyday, but so is the rest of the world and even more so in Hispanic countries from what I have seen, so maybe the Filipinos are trying to copy their Spanish heritage on this one and not Americas.  Most in the US politics and influential positions, movie stars etc are not fat and know it is unhealthy and we have had a health trend going on for many years, so why is it that Filipinos do not follow if they are trying to be just like us. (Pursuit of money is No1)  While I would have to agree with you that this seems to be an American trait but by far not ingrained in every American, yet it is far from just an American trait and most people I have met who are from other than the US seem to be in the same mindset, so again has nothing to do with America IMO and IMO has everything to do with what they see in the movies and on TV. (Basketball) What?  BASKETBALL  Ancient origins.I see Football also played and it does not resemble the US football in any way so what does playing a sport have to do with a mindset or Filipinos being like the Americans? Many countries pick up sports that they see and enjoy but so does America pick up sports from other countries such as SOCCER / FOOTBALL.  The origin of football / soccer can be found in every corner of geography and history. The Chinese, Japanese, Italian, Ancient Greek, Persian, Viking, and many more played a ball game long before our era. The Chinese played "football"  games date as far back as 3000 years ago. The Ancient Greeks and the Roman used football  games to sharpen warriors for battle. In south and Central America a game called "Tlatchi" once flourished.      But it was in England that soccer / football really begin to take shape. It all started in 1863 in England, when two football association (association football and rugby football) split off on their different course. Therefore, the first Football Association was founded in England. (Good awful adverts)  I happen to think most advertisements in the US are very different than those in the Philippines and I as an American do not understand most advertisements in the Philippines, so their style cannot be American in any way IMO.(Good awful soaps) I do not watch them so I cannot really comment too much, but it seems the Philippines does lean towards the macabre with all their ghost and ghoul TV shows, and those and the few times my wife had soaps on in both places do not in any way resemble each other IMO, so I would have to totally disagree.   (Star scandal tv) I see those types of things going on in other countries as well so IMO does not apply only to the US.(View of the world according to Hollywood) This could be one issue but since cable has become more available, the views will no doubt change as more countries movies and programs are viewed more often, yet Hollywood IMO in no way actually resembles the US and it is a fake perception that even Americans fall for who do not know any better.(Guns) Guns and violence seems to be more to do with any poor country or any poor people in any country and from what I read, people use guns often to rob and kill even in the UK where they are outlawed for the most part so it is often about the have nots wanting what the haves have and the haves not wishing to give what they worked so hard for so easily. So not to get into a gun debate, the Philippines has not achieved the gun freedoms that most parts of the US have and most likely will not in my lifetime. As one such example, Filipinos who move to the US are allowed to own guns but those of us that move to the Philippines are not, so they do not copy our laws or rules or even think like us except when they feel it benefits them. Another example is that those of us who have carry permits in the US can carry guns almost anywhere we go but Filipinos are very limited to where they can carry.(Coffee joints (Starbucks etc) I wonder if this is not more about business and less about being American or even thinking like an American. Drinking coffee is not unique to the US from what I have read, and Colombia is more about coffee than the US most likely ever will be and coffee did not originate in the US.  Coffees origin. (Malls) Again you baffle me on this one. Malls all over Asia beat the US to pieces and the malls in Makati, Cebu and other areas of Manila are much better than any I have seen in the US and do not in any way resemble malls in the US and in fact building in the Philippines does not in anyway resemble things in the US be it homes or condos or malls.(Living in gated sub divisions) This is another safety issue for both people, and most Filipinos do not live in gated subdivisions and the rich ones do for safety reasons and again that has nothing to do with the US because rich (not movie stars or very rich) in the US mostly do not live in gated subdivisions yet many none Filipinos including some Americans wish to live in them while in the Philippines also for safety reasons. (Security guards everywhere) There are way more security guards everywhere in the Philippines and way less in the US and that was one thing that amazed me when I first got to the Philippines, how there is a guard in every mom and pop store and business, whereas that is not the case at all in the US from my personal experiences. So again I find you off base on the things that you have described and do not think that Filipinos think like Americans, when was the last time you heard not in stock sir in the US lol, or act like Americans, when was the last time you heard one yelling, or are in any way like the Americans I know and the culture is so different than the US that it is not even fair to compare at all IMO, so while I think you went off in a different direction as to what things the Filipinos copy from the US that has nothing to do with their mindset, culture, or even eating habits since even rich Filipinos seem to have a love for rice even when eating American type foods and we could go on an on but I will stop here because this is way too long already. So I still do not see Americans in Filipinos but I guess you as a non American do, so maybe you have a better prospective on this than I do.

[joeatmanila]

Blaming country A or B is not the proper approach. understanding Filipino mentality can be more effective. It is easy to blame but hard to stand. So that is what is happening here "bahala na". It's a matter of mentality and not due to the suppression from Spaniards Americans and whomever.I can bring plenty of examples but i do not do it since it can a be a distraction from the topic and have us talk "oh but there happened this or that and is different and bla bla"it is the filipinos who need to do for their country and not anyone else. The world owes them nothing more than filipinos owe to their own country. They know the way but do not want to walk the mile, comforted one for each self.

[UZI]

Lee," I do not believe that most Filipinos act like Americans at all" ...........Really?Without even giving too much thought as it is late {sure I can do better after a nights sleep):Fast foodFat means being successful Pursuit of money is No1BasketballGood awful advertsGood awful soapsStar scandal tvView of the world according to HollywoodGunsCoffee joints (Starbucks etc)MallsLiving in gated sub divisionsSecurity guards everywhereSpelling (US vs English).............and with respect, you said it yourself "our Filipino American members" as in the word FILAM not FilBrit or FilNorge or FilOz etc. I would think that the terms 'KANO' & 'Hey Joe' would speak volumes. Remittances are quoted as $ even though OFW's work all over the world & the Peso is always valued against the $ above all else. Look at the AFP & their uniforms, NBI (FBI..!) police uniforms political system (President not Prime Minister) even the legal system.Any non American here I would hazard will wonder why you said "yet I find some of the thoughts baffling as an American since I do not believe that most Filipinos act like Americans at all" when all we see is Americanisms everywhere.Thankfully today's youth are looking more at Korean style & music, so at least it is a start at finding an Asian identity.Perhaps other members see things differently :508:Uzi.

Thanks for your input Uzi, first of all I did not say Kano because the article was comparing to the US so I said Filipino Americans so that maybe they could better compare than I could whereas a Filipino Brit or other who had not been to the US would have to compare to that country.Next I do not see Americans in Filipinos at all, they do not think like Americans, they do not act like Americans yet they do often try to have things which emulate America but that does not make them little brown Americans. Now let me try to tackle the items you listed(Fast food) Since I do not know what types of fast food places you have in the UK other than doing a search, I see the UK also has many of the things the US has, so does that mean your country copies the US or that your people are like the US, I think not or at least from what I have seen they try awful hard to not be considered to be like Americans.(Fat means being successful) I believe getting fat might be more related to eating more fast and unhealthy foods than meaning successful in the US, yet it is seen as a sign of wealth in the Philippines from what I have been told, but not everyone who is rich in the US is fat or even wants to get fat and actually just the opposite, yet at the same time it does seem that many of the poor or uneducated in the US are getting fatter everyday, but so is the rest of the world and even more so in Hispanic countries from what I have seen, so maybe the Filipinos are trying to copy their Spanish heritage on this one and not Americas. Most in the US politics and influential positions, movie stars etc are not fat and know it is unhealthy and we have had a health trend going on for many years, so why is it that Filipinos do not follow if they are trying to be just like us. (Pursuit of money is No1) While I would have to agree with you that this seems to be an American trait but by far not ingrained in every American, yet it is far from just an American trait and most people I have met who are from other than the US seem to be in the same mindset, so again has nothing to do with America IMO and IMO has everything to do with what they see in the movies and on TV. (Basketball) What? BASKETBALL Ancient origins.I see Football also played and it does not resemble the US football in any way so what does playing a sport have to do with a mindset or Filipinos being like the Americans? Many countries pick up sports that they see and enjoy but so does America pick up sports from other countries such as SOCCER / FOOTBALL. The origin of football / soccer can be found in every corner of geography and history. The Chinese, Japanese, Italian, Ancient Greek, Persian, Viking, and many more played a ball game long before our era. The Chinese played "football" games date as far back as 3000 years ago. The Ancient Greeks and the Roman used football games to sharpen warriors for battle. In south and Central America a game called "Tlatchi" once flourished. But it was in England that soccer / football really begin to take shape. It all started in 1863 in England, when two football association (association football and rugby football) split off on their different course. Therefore, the first Football Association was founded in England. (Good awful adverts) I happen to think most advertisements in the US are very different than those in the Philippines and I as an American do not understand most advertisements in the Philippines, so their style cannot be American in any way IMO.(Good awful soaps) I do not watch them so I cannot really comment too much, but it seems the Philippines does lean towards the macabre with all their ghost and ghoul TV shows, and those and the few times my wife had soaps on in both places do not in any way resemble each other IMO, so I would have to totally disagree. (Star scandal tv) I see those types of things going on in other countries as well so IMO does not apply only to the US.(View of the world according to Hollywood) This could be one issue but since cable has become more available, the views will no doubt change as more countries movies and programs are viewed more often, yet Hollywood IMO in no way actually resembles the US and it is a fake perception that even Americans fall for who do not know any better.(Guns) Guns and violence seems to be more to do with any poor country or any poor people in any country and from what I read, people use guns often to rob and kill even in the UK where they are outlawed for the most part so it is often about the have nots wanting what the haves have and the haves not wishing to give what they worked so hard for so easily. So not to get into a gun debate, the Philippines has not achieved the gun freedoms that most parts of the US have and most likely will not in my lifetime. As one such example, Filipinos who move to the US are allowed to own guns but those of us that move to the Philippines are not, so they do not copy our laws or rules or even think like us except when they feel it benefits them. Another example is that those of us who have carry permits in the US can carry guns almost anywhere we go but Filipinos are very limited to where they can carry.(Coffee joints (Starbucks etc) I wonder if this is not more about business and less about being American or even thinking like an American. Drinking coffee is not unique to the US from what I have read, and Colombia is more about coffee than the US most likely ever will be and coffee did not originate in the US. Coffees origin. (Malls) Again you baffle me on this one. Malls all over Asia beat the US to pieces and the malls in Makati, Cebu and other areas of Manila are much better than any I have seen in the US and do not in any way resemble malls in the US and in fact building in the Philippines does not in anyway resemble things in the US be it homes or condos or malls.(Living in gated sub divisions) This is another safety issue for both people, and most Filipinos do not live in gated subdivisions and the rich ones do for safety reasons and again that has nothing to do with the US because rich (not movie stars or very rich) in the US mostly do not live in gated subdivisions yet many none Filipinos including some Americans wish to live in them while in the Philippines also for safety reasons. (Security guards everywhere) There are way more security guards everywhere in the Philippines and way less in the US and that was one thing that amazed me when I first got to the Philippines, how there is a guard in every mom and pop store and business, whereas that is not the case at all in the US from my personal experiences. So again I find you off base on the things that you have described and do not think that Filipinos think like Americans, when was the last time you heard not in stock sir in the US lol, or act like Americans, when was the last time you heard one yelling, or are in any way like the Americans I know and the culture is so different than the US that it is not even fair to compare at all IMO, so while I think you went off in a different direction as to what things the Filipinos copy from the US that has nothing to do with their mindset, culture, or even eating habits since even rich Filipinos seem to have a love for rice even when eating American type foods and we could go on an on but I will stop here because this is way too long already. So I still do not see Americans in Filipinos but I guess you as a non American do, so maybe you have a better prospective on this than I do.

Lee,You appear to be mixing your past & present.The article & quotes by Ninoy Aquino were from almost THIRTY (1983) years ago. Filipinos and yes those of us in the UK too were into anything American at that time. Hence the imported Americana like Fast food, Coffee franchises, Malls, fashion etc. You also said ACT like, not THINK like, Americans, which is clearly changes the replies you are making. I replied to the question posed " I do not believe that most Filipinos act like Americans at all" To be clear, Filipinos THINK like Filipinos.The quote you refer to "Lately, they have taken to insisting they are Asian but they are so American-oriented that—by reflex—they still react and respond like little brown Americans." has to be viewed in context of that time. I also see that statement as being Filipinos IDENTIFY more with America (& still do in so many ways like uniforms, legal & political systems) than Asia, which was his point IMO. Something as I finished with "Thankfully today's youth are looking more at Korean style & music, so at least it is a start at finding an Asian identity." is changing, which is perhaps why you, Lee, don't see it so much today.Uzi.

[Mr Lee]

"Thankfully today's youth are looking more at Korean style & music, so at least it is a start at finding an Asian identity." is changing, which is perhaps why you, Lee, don't see it so much today.Uzi.

And I have not seen in the many years which I have been going back and forth to the Philippines which gets me fairly close to the times when he was writing that (within 10 years or so), and that was basically my point. Maybe he saw that because he hung out in rich circles and obviously those are only a small minority of the many Filipino people and the ones I usually do not try to hang out with. 

[stef]

this is a must read for all http://newsinfo.inqu...the-Philippines

This is a very interesting article and it will be good if some members can discuss what they find within it, yet I find some of the thoughts baffling as an American since I do not believe that most Filipinos act like Americans at all, other than some speaking a form of English, so I found the below paragraph which depicts Filipinos to be little brown Americans confusing. Maybe others see some similarities and would like to express those but I find way too many dissimilarities than I find similarities. If the concept of the below line was correct, than most Americans should feel like they are home when living in the Philippines and I know that I do not feel it is even close in anyway to my country of origin. So what are the similarities? I would hope that some of you, and especially our Filipino American members who have lived in both places can read the article and tell us what similarities there are because I just cannot see hardly any, but maybe I am blind or have my head in the sand. Filipinos are bewildered about their identity. They are an Asian people not Asian in the eyes of their fellow Asians and not Western in the eyes of the West. They are in Asia, but they know more about the Statue of Liberty than about Angkor Wat in Cambodia; more of the lyrics of Whitman than of Tagore or of their own Nick Joaquin; more of Patrick Henry’s soul-stirring liberty-or-death oratory than of the ageless wisdom of Confucius or Lao-tze. Lately, they have taken to insisting they are Asian but they are so American-oriented that—by reflex—they still react and respond like little brown Americans.

this is not a question for filiams what is said here is correct to anyone who has traveled around Asia the philippines is the only country that the people all wish to be an American and have no respect for they own country this is why they are not classed as Asian by other Asians. Almost half of a century of American rule bequeathed to the Asian Filipino a trauma by making him uncomfortably American in outlook, values and tastes. What was left was a people without a soul.

[stef]

this is one of the best lines and so true Who’s to blame? Fault, if it must be fixed, belongs not to any single man or people. It lies in the fabric of the society—and in what went into its making. Too many Filipinos are without purpose and without discipline. They profess love of country, but love themselves individually—more.

[ekimswish]

Lee," I do not believe that most Filipinos act like Americans at all" ...........Really?Without even giving too much thought as it is late {sure I can do better after a nights sleep):Fast foodFat means being successfulPursuit of money is No1BasketballGood awful advertsGood awful soapsStar scandal tvView of the world according to HollywoodGunsCoffee joints (Starbucks etc)MallsLiving in gated sub divisionsSecurity guards everywhereSpelling (US vs English).............and with respect, you said it yourself "our Filipino American members" as in the word FILAM not FilBrit or FilNorge or FilOz etc. I would think that the terms 'KANO' & 'Hey Joe' would speak volumes. Remittances are quoted as $ even though OFW's work all over the world & the Peso is always valued against the $ above all else. Look at the AFP & their uniforms, NBI (FBI..!) police uniforms political system (President not Prime Minister) even the legal system.Any non American here I would hazard will wonder why you said "yet I find some of the thoughts baffling as an American since I do not believe that most Filipinos act like Americans at all" when all we see is Americanisms everywhere.Thankfully today's youth are looking more at Korean style & music, so at least it is a start at finding an Asian identity.Perhaps other members see things differently :508:Uzi.

I didn't read the essay yet, but I gotta disagree with your list, Mr. Uzi. I'm Canadian, so I know what it's like to try and argue how we're different from Americans: IT SUCKS!The reality is, most of the world reflects American consumer culture these days, not just the Philippines. The shopping malls and Starbucks, and fast-food chains are everywhere possible, including Europe. If you want non-American, try Cuba or Laos, two very cool, beautiful, and yet-to-be-tainted-by-all-things-American countries. The taxis and other cars in Cuba are all 1950's models, and the music is NOT American pop! You gotta love it. But let me pick on the list a little bit: fast food: everywhere fat means successful: in America it means poor trash pursuit of money is #1: since the beginning of man basketball: a great sport that's huge in mainland Europe, Asia, and Latin America God awful adverts and soaps: I see no relation, except for what traits are common all over the world now Star scandal TV: England's quite famous for that as well as everyone else Hollywood view of the world: Filipinos prefer Transformers to The Hurt Locker Guns: a lot of countries allow guns Coffee Joints: big all over Asia and the rest of the world Malls: maybe you're right here, but big malls have become more of a Chinese thing recently Gated sub-divisions: 99.9% of Americans don't live in gated sub-divisions Security guards: American shops are heavily armed with baseball bats, their own guns, or just give up the money Spelling: Canada uses/used British spelling, but even we're increasingly surrendering to the American takeover of the "English" language, soon to be a Tex-Mex mixup. Nothing personal against your list; they're just fun to debate. You're probably right in correcting Lee on the time context of the essay. I wouldn't know though, since I wasn't there. Let's keep in mind, however, that Aquino was a rich guy who lived in America for quite a while himself, so maybe his circle was more American, which would mean something since his circle influenced the country. But personally, I think Filipinos worship the idea of America, but have no idea what it's like. In reality, they're totally different from Americans. I think the Spanish had way more influence over them as evidenced by their fiestas and saints. To really compare Filipino thinking and American thinking, I think you'd have exact opposites on almost every single point. I'm used to Phil-Cans, which are the same as Phil-Ams, so I was shocked when I came to the Philippines and realized Filipinos are nothing like them at all. Not because they wouldn't want to be, they worship America, but they just have no idea what America's really like. Edited August 22, 2010 by ekimswish