Ph "broken And Lawless"

[Jake]

I have looked high and low for numbers of per capita attacks on foreigners, can't find those numbers.I have wondered the same thing but I'm not willing to jump to conclusions. I think the rate of crime will rise on foreigners, but I don't carry a gun here nor do I feel the need too. When I lived in the USA, I went through the expense of getting a permit to carry a weapon and took it with me every where I went. When I had a garage sale before moving here, it was strapped to my side.The one number I have been able to find is about kidnapping. 70% of kidnapping victims are Filipino, mostly middle class. The gangs stay away from foreigners and rich Filipino because they carry to much press and thus cause the government to become more interested. The majority of kidnappings go unreported. Thus, what you hear about are the foreigners that are kidnapping making it appear they are more likely to be targeted when they are not.

Submitted by SJP52: Posted 21 September 2010 - 03:06 PM95 foreigners killed since 2009 From January 2009, to mid-June 2010, 95 foreigners have been killed during their trip in the Philippines. From January 2009, to mid-June 2010, 95 foreigners have been killed during their trip in the Philippines. According to police reports, Indian nationals are the most affected with 29 victims followed by Korean (15 victims) and American nationals (14 victims). Officials also recorded the killing of nine Germans, eight Japanese nationals, six British, four Chinese, three Canadian, three Australian, two French, two Finnish, and one Norwegian, Dutch, Taiwanese, Pakistan, Iranian, Malaysian, Spanish, Slovenian and Swiss national. Due to terrorist attacks and insurgents activities, most Western embassies advise their citizens against all travel to Mindanao and the Sulu archipelago. There is a high threat of terrorism throughout the country and travelers must be aware that attacks could be indiscriminate and may target places frequented by foreigners. Kidnapping threat remains high especially in the Sulu archipelago where a Swiss national has been abducted in April 2010. As street crimes may target tourists, it is recommended to keep a low profile while travelling to Philippines. You may see our "security abroad" factsheet for further advices. Respectfully -- Jake Edited December 5, 2010 by Jake

[FlyAway]

As street crimes may target tourists, it is recommended to keep a low profile while travelling to Philippines. You may see our "security abroad" factsheet for further advices. Respectfully -- Jake

If you are over 5'10" tall it is difficult to keep a low profile. To easy to "Over look" most everyone on the streets. :rolleyes:Could not pass up the "low profile" statement!

[Genius]

There is a very obvious benefit of using forums, especially expat forums to gauge crimes on foreingers in the the Philippines,that of course being that we hear about crimes that would go otherwise unreported or unheard of by the forum readership / newspapers and the media. As a percentage of the population, foreigners, (of European descent), are a tiny fraction, so the often frequent lurid manner of their demise is bound to attract media attention, just as it does with a local, where similar background and facts are also evident (e.g. rich, firearms, suspicious circumstances, young filipina, business interests etc). Foreigners seem to be more at risk because they are. That is because if you take the percentage of foreigners present as a percentage of the whole and divide it by the amount of murders you can see it is higher than the localised average. How do we know this ? We know this because just in the same manner that the previous poster knows it is not the case. Arguably, Occams razor would suggest that things seeming to be true, are generally true. I would sat that I distrust statistics from particular governments more than from other specific governments. In particularly egregious cases I would say some governments produce statistics purposedly as a form of disinformation and propoganda to perpetuate their power system over the populace. Must agree with another poster that the dead do not tend to post on forums very often, that embarrassment and apathy at the situation would tend to leave an underreporting of crime on forums too. It might be that there are two different philippines, the first being experienced by the local or well settled foreigner who leaves outside of the major metropoli and the second being that experienced by the foreigner staying within said metroplitan locations. To claim that the former, is the correct one to look at, (as it is experienced by the majority of the overall population), is clearly wrongheaded, as Foreigners are not homogenously spread out over the whole but rather concentrated in a pepper pot fashion in certain locations where they experience the higher crime and murder rates that apply to the whole. Now, someone is may claim that as they've lived in one of said so called danger areas for many years and that they are as far as they can see, alive, that the claim of increased danger is incorrect. However, that would be to ignore the fact that we are simply talking about increased liklihoods and that the overall liklihood still remains low. Just as it is much safer to fly than to drive, whilst it positively dangerous to be in the home comparitively, these statistics do not prevent us doing any of the aforementioned. We have being going back and forth for sometime, with claims and counterclaims revolving around whether the philippines is safe or not, (more particularly is it corrupt and lawless), to my mind, it is clear that the philippines is not as safe nor law abiding in the general, (from a health and safety perspective e.g. roads, food preparation, legal redress, business practices, theft etc etc), nor in the specific question we have been paying attention to, (rate of murder rate per capita for foreigners). But then again, does that matter ? It does not matter to me in the slightest, because I am willing to take the increase in percentage risk of death, (much lower than say, the risk of cancer per 100,000 for a smoker) and or other types of lawlessness to benefit from the advantages. One must not dismiss a place just because its health and safety laws are third world. I certainly do not. Traffic flow can be in Rome to put it politely chaotic and the drivers aggressive, I still think it is one of the greatest places in the world. Just to be truthful about one aspect of a nation is not to be down on it as a whole. Some people seem to take any realism to be a grievous insult against honour to be defended against. That is nonsensical. To persistently claim that the level of lawfulness or general murder rate of expats, here compares favourably with the rest of the world, is wrong. But if it makes you feel better to believe that you are living in a very safe and lawful country, be my guest.

Edited December 5, 2010 by Genius

[No name]

Genius, no one ever said there was no benefit to reading expat forums. As for the rest, when you start out with that, I'm not going to bother.

[No name]

As street crimes may target tourists, it is recommended to keep a low profile while travelling to Philippines. You may see our "security abroad" factsheet for further advices. Respectfully -- Jake

If you are over 5'10" tall it is difficult to keep a low profile. To easy to "Over look" most everyone on the streets. :rolleyes:Could not pass up the "low profile" statement!

Whew, then I'm safe. At 5' 9.75" I am in the clear. And here, I thought my white skin and round body would make my stand out. People say I look like Santa. :Policeman:

[No name]

The story about the girl being killed over a cell phone? Well, that cell phone probably had more monetary value than what the fools have killed people here in California over. A few here that come to mind are a persons jacket and shoes. At one time you did not want to wear Air Jordan shoes at the light rail stops even during the daytime.I do not quite see Philippines as "Broken and Lawless". They just go by a set of rules us Kano are not familiar with. Cultural differences we do not fully understand.

Cell phones are like cash here. Very easy to sell. The pawn shops are not so quick to take them any more. They have to have some kind of control number on them. My yaya tried to sell hers and was unable to since it was missing. Maybe there are dealers in Cebu City that would by them, I don't know. I'm sure they could be sold on the street too and avoid all the tracking. It was Filipino that told me it is as good as cash.Personally, I put more into what Filipino tell me about the Philippines than what other expats do.You know, I know a well known expat that totally trashes what Filipino have to say. He is kinder in his forum but wow what he says offline. You can't learn anything from someone like that. Well you can learn some things and some of it might even be correct. How would one know though which is accurate and which is not. He thinks he knows more about the Philippines than Filipino do!