Loosing Us Citizenship?

[intrepid]

Not sure if this question is in the proper place. If not please move, mod.My wife was talking to one of her friends here in the US today. The topic came up of us moving to PI in about 4 years. She asked if we would be returning to the US often. My wife said maybe every 2 years. Although I have been planning an annual return. Anyway, her friend told her she should be carefuland not stay too long on PI because she could be endanger of loosing her US citizenship! Her friend stated that one of her relatives had gotten his US citizenship some years ago and then some time later moved back to PI. And then some time later he was going to return to the US for a visit and found his US citizenship had been revoked! Has anyone here ever heard of this? I have not talked to the parties involved myself and suspect there must be more to the story. But my wife said the man was told because he returned to his home country(PI) and stayed for a very long period he showed by his own actions he lost interest and abandoned the US. Or something to this effect.I find this hard to believe and as stated above, I feel there is more to this story we have not been told.

[Jake]

Not sure if this question is in the proper place. If not please move, mod.My wife was talking to one of her friends here in the US today. The topic came up of us moving to PI in about 4 years. She asked if we would be returning to the US often. My wife said maybe every 2 years. Although I have been planning an annual return. Anyway, her friend told her she should be carefuland not stay too long on PI because she could be endanger of loosing her US citizenship! Her friend stated that one of her relatives had gotten his US citizenship some years ago and then some time later moved back to PI. And then some time later he was going to return to the US for a visit and found his US citizenship had been revoked! Has anyone here ever heard of this? I have not talked to the parties involved myself and suspect there must be more to the story. But my wife said the man was told because he returned to his home country(PI) and stayed for a very long period he showed by his own actions he lost interest and abandoned the US. Or something to this effect.I find this hard to believe and as stated above, I feel there is more to this story we have not been told.

I believe that you are correct -- there must be more to the story. Unless he has a US passport that was discovered fraudulent later,there is no restriction of living or working outside US for any given time. I strongly recommend that you register at the US Embassyin Manila to validate your residence and any other personal information.Respectfully -- Jake

[Mr Lee]

Not sure if this question is in the proper place. If not please move, mod.My wife was talking to one of her friends here in the US today. The topic came up of us moving to PI in about 4 years. She asked if we would be returning to the US often. My wife said maybe every 2 years. Although I have been planning an annual return. Anyway, her friend told her she should be carefuland not stay too long on PI because she could be endanger of loosing her US citizenship! Her friend stated that one of her relatives had gotten his US citizenship some years ago and then some time later moved back to PI. And then some time later he was going to return to the US for a visit and found his US citizenship had been revoked! Has anyone here ever heard of this? I have not talked to the parties involved myself and suspect there must be more to the story. But my wife said the man was told because he returned to his home country(PI) and stayed for a very long period he showed by his own actions he lost interest and abandoned the US. Or something to this effect.I find this hard to believe and as stated above, I feel there is more to this story we have not been told.

I believe that friend was talking about a green card (resident alien card) which is revoked if a green card holder goes out of the US for 6 months or more without express permission such as a family emergency. I have also heard that they can revoke it for shorter times outside of the US, but the norm would be 6 months from what I have been told, and as far as I know, once a US citizen, always a US citizen unless they renounce their US citizenship. My wife (a US citizen born in the Philippines) and I are usually outside the country about to 4 months a year, every year, and have been outside longer in the past and have never heard a peep from immigration upon return, yet I have heard of people who were refused reentry, and had their green card taken away while trying to reenter.

[intrepid]

Yea, I was thinking a green card also. But the friend did state US citizenship. Still, knowing what I know now and how stories get told and changed, or just not the true facts known and someone tries to relay the facts as they think they know them, it is best to always try to learn for myself.Thanks guys, you confirmed I was on the right thinking track!

[Call me bubba]

Yea, I was thinking a green card also. But the friend did state US citizenship. Still, knowing what I know now and how stories get told and changed, or just not the true facts known and someone tries to relay the facts as they think they know them, it is best to always try to learn for myself.Thanks guys, you confirmed I was on the right thinking track!

Your very right, some people when they get the "green card" they automatically think they have US citizenship.if you or other forum members have any questions 2 US attorneys ( REEVES & GURFINKEL) have websites that has many answers to the questions many people have1 attorney even has a RP local TV show dedicated to US immigration, as kuya Lee stated you can lose your "GREEN CARD" if you leave the US for a period of time. the above attorneys website has information on the procedure of how/what to do to get "advance" permission should you need to leave for "extended" period of time. when I have searched the US government website it was very hard to find/locate the info, their website is clearer to understand. :unsure:( if the forum wishes to post the URL of the website go ahead,as it does have relevance to the post i dont want to be seen as "promoting another business")

[Jake]

Yea, I was thinking a green card also. But the friend did state US citizenship. Still, knowing what I know now and how stories get told and changed, or just not the true facts known and someone tries to relay the facts as they think they know them, it is best to always try to learn for myself.Thanks guys, you confirmed I was on the right thinking track!

Your very right, some people when they get the "green card" they automatically think they have US citizenship.if you or other forum members have any questions 2 US attorneys ( REEVES & GURFINKEL) have websites that has many answers to the questions many people have1 attorney even has a RP local TV show dedicated to US immigration, as kuya Lee stated you can lose your "GREEN CARD" if you leave the US for a period of time. the above attorneys website has information on the procedure of how/what to do to get "advance" permission should you need to leave for "extended" period of time. when I have searched the US government website it was very hard to find/locate the info, their website is clearer to understand. :unsure:( if the forum wishes to post the URL of the website go ahead,as it does have relevance to the post i dont want to be seen as "promoting another business")

Thank you Ed,The law office of Michael Gurfinkel located in southern California is apparently well established dealingwith immigration issues from the Philippines. His staff consist of Filipino paralegals who can addressany issues in Tagalog.Respectfully -- Jake

[Art2ro]

http://travel.state....enship_778.html Advice about Possible Loss of U.S. Citizenship and Dual NationalityPOTENTIALLY EXPATRIATING ACTSSection 349 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1481), as amended, states that U.S. citizens are subject to loss of citizenship if they perform certainspecified acts voluntarily and with the intention to relinquish U.S. citizenship. Briefly stated, these acts include:

1. obtaining naturalization in a foreign state (Sec. 349 (a) (1) INA);
2. taking an oath, affirmation or other formal declaration to a foreign state or its political subdivisions (Sec. 349 (a) (2) INA);
3. entering or serving in the armed forces of a foreign state engaged in hostilities against the U.S. or serving as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer in the armed forces of a foreign state (Sec. 349 (a) (3) INA);
4. accepting employment with a foreign government if (a) one has the nationality of that foreign state or (b) an oath or declaration of allegiance is required in accepting the position (Sec. 349 (a) (4) INA);
5. formally renouncing U.S. citizenship before a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer outside the United States (sec. 349 (a) (5) INA);
6. formally renouncing U.S. citizenship within the U.S. (but only under strict, narrow statutory conditions) (Sec. 349 (a) (6) INA);
7. conviction for an act of treason (Sec. 349 (a) (7) INA).

[Call me bubba]

here is some additional infomation on this topic,

since it was last posted (updated) it maybe helpful to the newer members

Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship

• 
  
  • A. THE IMMIGRATION & NATIONALITY ACT
    

Section 349(a)(5) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) (8 U.S.C. 1481(a)(5)) is the section of law that governs the ability of a United States citizen to renounce his or her U.S. citizenship. That section of law provides for the loss of nationality by voluntarily performing the following act with the intent to relinquish his or her U.S. nationality: "(5) making a formal renunciation of nationality before a diplomatic or consular officer of the United States in a foreign state , in such form as may be prescribed by the Secretary of State" (emphasis added).

B. ELEMENTS OF RENUNCIATION

A person wishing to renounce his or her U.S. citizenship must voluntarily and with intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship:

1. appear in person before a U.S. consular or diplomatic officer,
   
2. in a foreign country (normally at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate); and
   
3. sign an oath of renunciation
   

Renunciations that do not meet the conditions described above have no legal effect. Because of the provisions of section 349(a)(5), Americans cannot effectively renounce their citizenship by mail, through an agent, or while in the United States. In fact, U.S. courts have held certain attempts to renounce U.S. citizenship to be ineffective on a variety of grounds, as discussed below.

C. REQUIREMENT - RENOUNCE ALL RIGHTS AND PRIVILEGES

In the case of Colon v. U.S. Department of State , 2 F.Supp.2d 43 (1998), plaintiff was a United States citizen and resident of Puerto Rico, who executed an oath of renunciation before a consular officer at the U.S. Embassy in Santo Domingo.

The U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia rejected Colon’s petition for a writ of mandamus directing the Secretary of State to approve a Certificate of Loss of Nationality in the case because the plaintiff wanted to retain one of the primary benefits of U.S. citizenship while claiming he was not a U.S. citizen.

The Court described the plaintiff as a person, "claiming to renounce all rights and privileges of United States citizenship, [while] Plaintiff wants to continue to exercise one of the fundamental rights of citizenship, namely to travel freely throughout the world and when he wants to, return and reside in the United States." See also Jose Fufi Santori v. United States of America , 1994 U.S. App. LEXIS 16299 (1994) for a similar case.

A person who wants to renounce U.S. citizenship cannot decide to retain some of the privileges of citizenship, as this would be logically inconsistent with the concept of renunciation. Thus, such a person can be said to lack a full understanding of renouncing citizenship and/or lack the necessary intent to renounce citizenship, and the Department of State will not approve a loss of citizenship in such instances.

D. DUAL NATIONALITY / STATELESSNESS

Persons intending to renounce U.S. citizenship should be aware that, unless they already possess a foreign nationality, they may be rendered stateless and, thus, lack the protection of any government. They may also have difficulty traveling as they may not be entitled to a passport from any country.

Even if they were not stateless, they would still be required to obtain a visa to travel to the United States, or show that they are eligible for admission pursuant to the terms of the Visa Waiver Pilot Program (VWPP).

If found ineligible for a visa or the VWPP to come to the U.S., a renunciant, under certain circumstances, could be barred from entering the United States. Nonetheless, renunciation of U.S. citizenship may not prevent a foreign country from deporting that individual back to the United States in some non-citizen status.

E. TAX & MILITARY OBLIGATIONS /NO ESCAPE FROM PROSECUTION

Also, persons who wish to renounce U.S. citizenship should also be aware that the fact that a person has renounced U.S. citizenship may have no effect whatsoever on his or her U.S. tax or military service obligations (contact the Internal Revenue Service or U.S. Selective Service for more information).

In addition, the act of renouncing U.S. citizenship will not allow persons to avoid possible prosecution for crimes which they may have committed in the United States, or escape the repayment of financial obligations previously incurred in the United States or incurred as United States citizens abroad.

F. RENUNCIATION FOR MINOR CHILDREN

Parents cannot renounce U.S. citizenship on behalf of their minor children. Before an oath of renunciation will be administered under Section 349(a)(5) of the INA, a person under the age of eighteen must convince a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer that he/she fully understands the nature and consequences of the oath of renunciation, is not subject to duress or undue influence, and is voluntarily seeking to renounce his/her U.S. citizenship.

G. IRREVOCABILITY OF RENUNCIATION

Finally, those contemplating a renunciation of U.S. citizenship should understand that the act is irrevocable, except as provided in section 351 of the INA (8 U.S.C. 1483), and cannot be canceled or set aside absent successful administrative or judicial appeal. (Section 351(b) of the INA provides that an applicant who renounced his or her U.S. citizenship before the age of eighteen can have that citizenship reinstated if he or she makes that desire known to the Department of State within six months after attaining the age of eighteen. See also Title 22, Code of Federal Regulations, section 50.20).

http://travel.state....enship_776.html

REVOCATION OF CITIZENSHIP

The Immigration and Naturalization Service has authority to institute either administrative or judicial proceedings to denaturalize citizens whose criminal convictions disqualified them from citizenship as a matter of law.

Whether the proceedings are administrative or judicial, the INS must establish the allegations in its complaint by clear, unequivocal, and convincing evidence.

\

The INS has no authority to seek denaturalization if the INS examiner had discretion to find that an applicant was of good moral character, and in fact did exercise that discretion so as to find that the applicant was of good moral character,

unless the INS establishes in its complaint by clear,unequivocal, and convincing evidence either that the applicant gave false testimony with the intention of obtaining an immigration benefit or that the examiner's decision resulted from the applicant's willful misrepresentation or concealment of a material fact.

The INS may seek denaturalization if the applicant made a false oral statement under oath (regardless of whether the testimony is material) with the subjective intent of obtaining immigration benefits.

Alternatively, the INS may seek denaturalization if the applicant procured naturalization by concealment or willful misrepresentation of a material fact. In either case, the INS must prove its complaint by clear, unequivocal, and convincing evidence.

http://www.justice.gov/olc/ina340.htm

Edited May 21, 2012 by Call me Bubba

[Okieboy]

I think the part about the tax is wrong ,the part owner of facebook is doing the very thing just to avoid taxes in the USA

[TheMason]

I think the part about the tax is wrong ,the part owner of facebook is doing the very thing just to avoid taxes in the USA

He's doing it to avoid future taxes, not currently owed ones. He'll owe hundreds of millions for some of his holdings, but he'll be exempt from US taxes going forward.