Rich American, Poor American

[JJReyes]

For the perspective of Filipinos, what they observe are rich foreigners. The executive type resides in a gated community; goes to his office in a car with a driver; dines at the finest restaurants; and socializes on weekends with other foreigners and very rich Filipinos at some fancy resort. Their children attend private schools and the wife shops at department stores in Makati.I recall writing a paper in high school that the Philippine government should hire twelve Americans as streetsweepers. This would counter balance the one sided image that all foreigners are rich. My teacher, who was a Christian Brother from California, made vague references regarding the need to correct my thinking or else I may grow up to become a Communist.My impression is members of this forum are not rich, but neither are they poor. It seems many are Western middle class, which still makes you rich by Philipppine standards. Even more interesting is that most of you reside within a local community. The dual pricing system you experience for all kinds of goods and services is wrong from a Western point of view. The feeling you get is the Filipinos are taking advantage. Unfortunately, you are now living in a different culture and the Filipinos consider the higher prices they are charging you as their largesse. It is no different than when a politician comes to solicit for their vote. The politician is required to also distribute free t-shirts, a kilo of rice, and other stuff. Explain this to a Westerner unfamiliar with Philippine culture and they would consider thie gifts as bribery or vote buying.Once you accept the two prices system as a cultural reality, your living in the Philippines will be less frustrating and less irritating.

Edited February 15, 2012 by JJR

[Mike S]

JJR ..... I'm not picking on you here ...... just want you to know .... you have made some interesting comments and I just want to express MY feelings on the subjects .....Interesting JJR ...... I for one don't live in any type of community ..... just in an apartment building right across from a sari-sari store with 4-5 carenderias right down the street ..... true we have no shanties on the block but no 3mil.p houses either ......

It is no different than when a politician comes to solicit for their vote. The politician is required to also distribute free t-shirts, a kilo of rice, and other stuff. Explain this to a Westerner unfamiliar with Philippine culture and they would consider thie gifts as bribery or vote buying.

Yup you are right we do and so does my asawa (she's Filipina) .... also when they give out 100p to 500p at the poll to solicit your vote it is not considered a bribe ???? ..... so that means if you and I are equal in an election (both of us to be Filipino for this scenario) and you give out gifts and money and I don't ..... people that got your gifts would also remember me and vote for me even though I gave nothing ...... well if that is the case I can understand why until the thought process is changed here in the Philippines it will always be that the haves will always have and the have knots are just SOL ...... and those that can afford to give out solicitation (not considered bribes) to get off with their crimes and what not will do so ....... but I am curious when does a bribe become a solicitation and vice versa ...... as I hear a whole bunch about bribes here in the Phils ......By the way this doesn't bother me nor does the 2 tiered price system ..... I usually buy from places that have the prices marked and you don't need to haggle ..... when haggling comes into play my asawa takes care of that ..... :hystery: and as I can't vote I don't care ...... I just believe in calling a spade a spade ..... no matter how much they try to sugar coat it ...... :hystery: :hystery:

[MikeB]

You seem to be justifying, or trying to justify, overcharging on the basis of nationality, skin color, perception of wealth, whatever. It's not just wrong "from a Western point of view", it's wrong period, on many levels. "Largesse" refers to the giving of money (or something) out of a feeling of gratitude or indebtedness. So what you're saying is that Filipinos overcharge foreigners because they feel they are owed something above and beyond whatever it is they're selling or providing? I don't buy it, we all have choices and mine is to walk away and not give them business. Maybe I am wealthy by their standards but it didn't happen overnight and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay extra because someone feels a sense of entitlement over some perceived injustice - or whatever the excuse. .

[Dave Hounddriver]

I recall writing a paper in high school that the Philippine government should hire twelve Americans as streetsweepers. This would counter balance the one sided image that all foreigners are rich.

I have not found that to be the case. In the few (3) instances I know where the foreigners (1 American, 1Aussie, 1 German) live as filipinos (that means no income other than what they can earn at jobs such as street cleaning or similar), I notice local people observing them like nobility who have fallen from grace. In other words they are still seen as rich, but rich who have lost or squandered all their money.

My impression is members of this forum are not rich, but neither are they poor.

Of course. The ones who live here and really ARE poor cannot (or do not) afford to waste money on Internet or computers and would laugh at the thought of going to an Internet cafe just to chat with us well to do sort.

Once you accept the two prices system as a cultural reality, your living in the Philippines will be less frustrating and less irritating.

This part I agree with. I see the regular price, with fair profit built in, being charged to anyone who can afford it and I see a lower price being charged to people who have nothing. Were I in business I would have the same compassion. When a discount is available to a wealthy filipino because he is a good negotiator, I watch what he does and usually manage to get the same discounts myself.

[cebu rocks]

Once you accept the two prices system as a cultural reality, your living in the Philippines will be less frustrating and less irritating.​I don,t agree with the 2 price system . I have been over charged in the past but find if you know what things cost and bargain with the locals the same deal can be had . Also a good lady at your side will make a big difference as well as speaking enough Bisyan to make yourself not seem like a newbe or tourist . If all else fails just let her do all your shopping just research the going rate of what you want and give your lady the money you feel is fair for the product and tell her she gets to keep all the change then watch the deals you get LOL

[Bundy]

I will not be residing in a gated community, I will not have a car and thus won't require a driver,I don't dine at the finest resturants,I don't know any rich Filipinos and if i socialize with other foreigners on the weekend it would be for a few beers,and i have never been to any fancy resort in the Philippines.I wonder what the Filipinos will think of me??? :hystery: :hystery: :hystery:

[Tatoosh]

I do have a car (that work at least some of the time) and I get by without a driver most of the time. Now, I draft the brother-in-law occasionally, since some places do not have parking and letting him play chauffeur is okay by me since I pay his rent, food, and tuition for the time being. I don't like to drive down to Manila so we take a bus. Much nicer for everyone involved. Middle class is a wide range of people and that is good. Some folks here are blue collar (aka skilled craftsmen) and others are business types, and a few are more academically inclined. I think one of spent a fair amount of time playing cops and robbers. All of us have worked for a living, many of us are retired. Few of us are rich by Western standards. No Mercedes or Hummer. But some own homes here, while most rent. It is a nice mix of experience and what I like is that there isn't a lot of the "whose got the biggest, nicest, most of whatever" sort of thing going on. People share experiences and information, joke a bit, laugh a bit, and enjoy themselves.

[Art2ro]

I do have a car (that work at least some of the time) and I get by without a driver most of the time. Now, I draft the brother-in-law occasionally, since some places do not have parking and letting him play chauffeur is okay by me since I pay his rent, food, and tuition for the time being. I don't like to drive down to Manila so we take a bus. Much nicer for everyone involved.Middle class is a wide range of people and that is good. Some folks here are blue collar (aka skilled craftsmen) and others are business types, and a few are more academically inclined. I think one of spent a fair amount of time playing cops and robbers. All of us have worked for a living, many of us are retired. Few of us are rich by Western standards. No Mercedes or Hummer. But some own homes here, while most rent. It is a nice mix of experience and what I like is that there isn't a lot of the "whose got the biggest, nicest, most of whatever" sort of thing going on. People share experiences and information, joke a bit, laugh a bit, and enjoy themselves.

I also believe that are more "Middle Class" people in the Philippines from different nationalities than there rich or poor people, but foreigners still have more money than your average Filipino with 8 to 12 hr jobs! I just don't like those well to do uppity snobbish intellects who think they are better than anyone else! That's all I have to say really! :89: :89:

[JJReyes]

I don't condone bribery and corruption. The purpose of my post is to explain things from the cultural perspective of a poverty level or low-income Filipino. It is wrong for politicians to distribute gifts, but is it also wrong for a Filipino with starving children to say, "No." when the politician offers a kilo of rice? From a Western moral point of view, the rice is being distributed to solicit votes. It's bribery. I would personally never accept it. Perhaps the reason for my higher sense of what is right or wrong is because I am not starving. Would my morality remain if my personal circumstances were different?The United States tax system includes the taking of money from those who earned it through hard work and redistributing it to others who may or may not be in need. That's a form of largesse without my consent. My preference is for the federal government to allow me the privilege of distributing my money to persons and organizations I would like to support. The politicians can set the terms, such as 5% of my earned income for charity. When Filipinos overcharge foreigners, something similar is taking place. It is a forcible redistribution of wealth to persons in greater need than me. Again, I don't condone the practice. I am just trying to explain what's going on. On a more philosophical level, my justification is not to fight the system and just trip to keep my blood pressure down.There is an alternative to the 2 price system. Shop at a supermarket or large department store where the prices are fixed. Most restaurants are also fixed prices.

Edited February 16, 2012 by JJR

[Tukaram (Tim)]

Once you accept the two prices system as a cultural reality, your living in the Philippines will be less frustrating and less irritating.

I generally try to shop at fixed price stores. I hate buying cars here in the US because of the ###### up pricing system. <--- hey look a word filter - who knew?I won't try to justify if a dual price structure is right or wrong because it is obviously wrong. But if you are going to live among the Filipino's it will help if you understand them. Even when I was stationed in Hawai'i we had a dual pricing system for a lot of the touristy attractions. Same thing in Orlando, Florida. Locals pay a lower entry fee to a lot of the attractions. When I was stationed in Hawaii, and Orlando, I got the lower price. Now when I vacation there, I don't. It was explained to me that since the local has to put with the tourists everywhere you get a discount. Really it is just the tourist is expected to pay a ridiculous amount - but based on supply and demand ratio of tourist. The local people are a different market and have a different price structure based on their supply/demand. Whatever - it just sounds like tourist will pay whatever is asked of them and are taken advantage of. But they let it happen. (believe me you don't want to know what Florida locals pay for Disney and Universal!)But I do agree, to an extent, with your last line. Whether we call it a "cultural reality" or "bullsh&amp;t" doesn't matter. Really for right or wrong, we are walking ATM machines. It is a fact of life. So the sooner you accept it the easier it will be to get on with your life and fun. And shop at at fixed price stores as much as you can. :89: