Considering Move To Cebu Or Manila

[Steve & Myrlita]

 

 

1) I will own my online business so will come on a tourist visa and perpetually extend until my situation changes. Are there restrictions to what I can do on a tourist visa? For example, renting an apartment... will I run into issues getting a multi-month lease? Same with leasing a car? 2) I'll talk to a lawyer about this in more detail but in general terms, does anyone know if I will run into any issues if I have Filipino freelancers working with me in person on a contract basis (legally)?

Well.

IF you only work by yourself, THEN you have chance to not be noticed,

BUT if you start working with Filipins, I suppouse that would be big risk if you don't make all proper.

 

Many Internet businesses are counted as "export", which make OWNING the company much easier, because foreigners can own 100 % of "export businesses" WITHOUT any "lawyer solutiions". The common type of "lawyer solutions" (=have 100 % in business type where you are allowed only to have 40 %) I DON'T recomend.

 

You will need WORK PERMIT.

IF you employ at least 10 Filipins full time paid, that's seen as you more or less have fullfilled demands to get work permit. 

I don't know how hard/easy it is otherwice.

 

 

That is something I hadn't thought about.  You mention the 40% rule and I know about that.  But, how does that work?

 

The reason I ask is that my Filipina wife and I plan to move to the Cebu area when I retire in about 8 years.  She wants to open a business (basically in the service industry) and I'm all for it.  Because of the nature of the business, I will be undoubtedly working in it with her.  I doubt we can put the enterprise in both of our names since it would be only 50% Filipino owned instead of 60%.  If we put the business entirely in her name, it would obviously be 100% Filipino owned.  But in that case, since I can't legally work, would I be able to "volunteer" my time as an unpaid employee or consultant?

 

Any thoughts or experience with this?

 

First, Welcome to the forum. Make yourself at home.

Next, no matter what percentage of your wife's business you own, it's still 100% hers. Why? Because the Philippine Family Code says that for financial purposes, a husband and wife are considered as one entity. Sorry I can't remember the exact location.

Edited August 25, 2014 by Steve & Myrlita

[Pigboat]

 

 

 

1) I will own my online business so will come on a tourist visa and perpetually extend until my situation changes. Are there restrictions to what I can do on a tourist visa? For example, renting an apartment... will I run into issues getting a multi-month lease? Same with leasing a car? 2) I'll talk to a lawyer about this in more detail but in general terms, does anyone know if I will run into any issues if I have Filipino freelancers working with me in person on a contract basis (legally)?

Well.

IF you only work by yourself, THEN you have chance to not be noticed,

BUT if you start working with Filipins, I suppouse that would be big risk if you don't make all proper.

 

Many Internet businesses are counted as "export", which make OWNING the company much easier, because foreigners can own 100 % of "export businesses" WITHOUT any "lawyer solutiions". The common type of "lawyer solutions" (=have 100 % in business type where you are allowed only to have 40 %) I DON'T recomend.

 

You will need WORK PERMIT.

IF you employ at least 10 Filipins full time paid, that's seen as you more or less have fullfilled demands to get work permit. 

I don't know how hard/easy it is otherwice.

 

 

That is something I hadn't thought about.  You mention the 40% rule and I know about that.  But, how does that work?

 

The reason I ask is that my Filipina wife and I plan to move to the Cebu area when I retire in about 8 years.  She wants to open a business (basically in the service industry) and I'm all for it.  Because of the nature of the business, I will be undoubtedly working in it with her.  I doubt we can put the enterprise in both of our names since it would be only 50% Filipino owned instead of 60%.  If we put the business entirely in her name, it would obviously be 100% Filipino owned.  But in that case, since I can't legally work, would I be able to "volunteer" my time as an unpaid employee or consultant?

 

Any thoughts or experience with this?

 

First, Welcome to the forum. Make yourself at home.

Next, no matter what percentage of your wife's business you own, it's still 100% hers. Why? Because the Philippine Family Code says that for financial purposes, a husband and wife are considered as one entity. Sorry I can't remember the exact location.

 

I thank you for the welcome!  Happy to be here.

 

I'm glad you clarified that for me.  That is EXACTLY what I wanted to know.  My wish is that we start a biz after we move there and begin to employ her (and now my) family members.  I've already told her that my dream is to help her close (and extended) family go to college in a major that relates to our business and we will help them financialy with their education.  In return, they will come to work for us and we will grow the business.

 

Sort of like the old saying...  "A rising tide raises all boats."   That is my hope.  The more family we educate and employ, the more our business will grow.  And, the more we grow, the more family we can educate.

 

I have a BS degree is Business Admin.  I would like to think that I can organize a new biz in the Phils. Perhaps that is naiive.

 

In addition to being completely legit with PhilHealth and SSS payments, I plan to institute a profit sharing program with our employees that I've yet to see any mention of in my readings here and elsewhere.  It seems that, from all I have read, the laws tend to be fairly adverse to the workers there.

 

I've already told my wife that we will have the BEST employees because we will give the BEST compensation!  Bar none!

 

Fortunately, because of my retirement conditons, we will be situationally "rich."

 

Hence, I think we will be in the unique position of being able to selectively screen employees: offer the "good" ones more than they would otherwise earn and send the bad ones packing. Addtitionally we will offer profit sharing

.

I thank you all again for your insights into life in the Phils and what I can expect when we move there.

 

I look forward to any and all comments.

[Thomas]

That is something I hadn't thought about. You mention the 40% rule and I know about that. But, how does that work?

The reason I ask is that my Filipina wife and I plan to move to the Cebu area when I retire in about 8 years. She wants to open a business (basically in the service industry) and I'm all for it. Because of the nature of the business, I will be undoubtedly working in it with her. I doubt we can put the enterprise in both of our names since it would be only 50% Filipino owned instead of 60%. If we put the business entirely in her name, it would obviously be 100% Filipino owned. But in that case, since I can't legally work, would I be able to "volunteer" my time as an unpaid employee or consultant? Any thoughts or experience with this?

It's WORSE than that, because after marriage the Filipina spouse is counted as foreigner...

It's an "Anti-Dummy" law counting the foreigner-Filipina couple as ONE SAME,

I suppouse because the parlament expect it's the foreigner, who pay.

I don't know if only only for the Filipina WIFE or if the law include some other close relatives too.

 

That goes BOTH for owning and what business type is allowed for foreigners.

(There are different percentages for different business types, 100 % for "exportbusiness" and 40 % for MOST of the other ALLOWED ones.)

 

 

I asume the law DON'T make any difference between if you do it "volontaringly" or not.

 

NOTE!  Owning/leading is one thing,

working in the production/service is an other.

As a foreigner you need to check IF you are allowed to do such work AT ALL (other than leading). And think of WORK PERMIT.

(I don't remember for sure, but I believe there is a special easy/automatic work permit if you employ at least 10 Filipins full time with at least minimum salary according to that law salary.)

Compare: Acording to a juridical advicer it isn't allowed to be TEACHER in own education business, BUT it's allowed to "INSTRUCT" the employed TEACHERS   :)

 

I asume the Filipina wife DON'T need work permit, but I asumed by logic, some laws aren't logic   :mocking:   so better check.

[Thomas]

I've already told her that my dream is to help her close (and extended) family go to college in a major that relates to our business and we will help them financialy with their education. In return, they will come to work for us and we will grow the business.

Well. I suppouse there are some good educations in SOME universities/colleges in the Philippines too, but many are more at western High School and sometimes even only Elementary school level...

(E g a MASTER examed in BUSINESS education could only count VERY SIMPLE percent as e g 1 of 5, but he FAILED to recount a short loan interest to a year interest in percent...

So far I have only found two Filipins who can the harder, one of the a business consultant, the other only High school educated, but with mathematics as favorite subject. She had only been tought the simplest, but by logic thinking she managed to figuere out how to recount it.)

 

So if aiming at work in own business (or other they can get work in without higher exam anyway if they have the knowledge) then I think better YOU just TEACH them internal in your business WITHOUT spend money on college/university...

(I will do similar with my future family-in-law.)

I have a BS degree is Business Admin. I would like to think that I can organize a new biz in the Phils. Perhaps that is naiive.

Well. Good knowledge to START with, but you will need to ADJUST several things because of laws and probably by culture too.

(Although I plan to TRY to find a few to employ, who can be made suit to a western style "Flat" organisation, but many think I'm crazy :hystery:   I like challenges anyway, and I expect this to be a huge one  :mocking:  

I plan to institute a profit sharing program with our employees that I've yet to see any mention of in my readings here and elsewhere.

  In general I LIKE such, BUT because of very few Filipins understand percent as well as the difference between revenue and profit, I believe it would be huge problems if make a western style profit share deal, because many will be very disapointed when/if they count wrong at reveue instead :mocking:   (=Low understanding ones can SEE revenue too, although they see it as profit...)

I have thought rather much about it, but haven't found any perfect solution. Because of what most Filipins are USED to, I believe it's better make them compare to what similar work in OTHER companies earn, instead of make them think of profit formulas.  So I will probably make a solution where I just give them a table with examples showing "if we* reach this, then you will get this in EXTRA pay".

 

*I prefer INDIVIDUAL incentives, but I know that only function in some types of businesses where it's easy to check quality and amount EACH one have done. (Or in two people teams, if doing something they will need be two to do anyway of their health security reason (if someone get hurt in production.)

Hence, I think we will be in the unique position of being able to selectively screen employees: offer the "good" ones more than they would otherwise earn and send the bad ones packing

Yes. I asked my gf what's common in Phils concerning testing. She said them who get through the interview step. make a one WEEK test at work. (She work in production.)

[Jake]

I have a BS degree is Business Admin.  I would like to think that I can organize a new biz in the Phils. Perhaps that is naive

 

Hello Pigboat,

 

Yeah, that would help a great deal but I must tell you may have to study advanced BA courses in the Philippines about 

monkey business.....he, he.  And guess what, having the extended family involved may give you some sleepless nights

about what happen to your inventory or their creative math in order to balance the books.  Many Filipinos don't think

about tomorrow.  They don't think long term (investment).  Work ethics, reliability, honesty and being self motivated are

typically not common in the local workforce.     

 

There are just too many horror stories about the helpful or enterprising expat losing his initial capital.  Please, study or

discuss all you can before your departure.  You worked so hard in the western world......why give yourself unnecessary

grief during your golden years.  Rather, you should invest in your health which should give you a decent ROI.  

 

Just sit back and smell the coconut.......respectfully -- Jake

 

[jpbago]

Lots of water in Cebu:

 

http://www.sunstar.com.ph/cebu/local-news/2014/08/29/street-floods-landslides-hit-cebu-362484

[Pigboat]

 

I've already told her that my dream is to help her close (and extended) family go to college in a major that relates to our business and we will help them financialy with their education. In return, they will come to work for us and we will grow the business.

Well. I suppouse there are some good educations in SOME universities/colleges in the Philippines too, but many are more at western High School and sometimes even only Elementary school level...

(E g a MASTER examed in BUSINESS education could only count VERY SIMPLE percent as e g 1 of 5, but he FAILED to recount a short loan interest to a year interest in percent...

So far I have only found two Filipins who can the harder, one of the a business consultant, the other only High school educated, but with mathematics as favorite subject. She had only been tought the simplest, but by logic thinking she managed to figuere out how to recount it.)

 

So if aiming at work in own business (or other they can get work in without higher exam anyway if they have the knowledge) then I think better YOU just TEACH them internal in your business WITHOUT spend money on college/university...

(I will do similar with my future family-in-law.)

 

I have a BS degree is Business Admin. I would like to think that I can organize a new biz in the Phils. Perhaps that is naiive.

Well. Good knowledge to START with, but you will need to ADJUST several things because of laws and probably by culture too.

(Although I plan to TRY to find a few to employ, who can be made suit to a western style "Flat" organisation, but many think I'm crazy :hystery:   I like challenges anyway, and I expect this to be a huge one  :mocking:  

 

I plan to institute a profit sharing program with our employees that I've yet to see any mention of in my readings here and elsewhere.

  In general I LIKE such, BUT because of very few Filipins understand percent as well as the difference between revenue and profit, I believe it would be huge problems if make a western style profit share deal, because many will be very disapointed when/if they count wrong at reveue instead :mocking:   (=Low understanding ones can SEE revenue too, although they see it as profit...)

I have thought rather much about it, but haven't found any perfect solution. Because of what most Filipins are USED to, I believe it's better make them compare to what similar work in OTHER companies earn, instead of make them think of profit formulas.  So I will probably make a solution where I just give them a table with examples showing "if we* reach this, then you will get this in EXTRA pay".

 

*I prefer INDIVIDUAL incentives, but I know that only function in some types of businesses where it's easy to check quality and amount EACH one have done. (Or in two people teams, if doing something they will need be two to do anyway of their health security reason (if someone get hurt in production.)

 

Hence, I think we will be in the unique position of being able to selectively screen employees: offer the "good" ones more than they would otherwise earn and send the bad ones packing

Yes. I asked my gf what's common in Phils concerning testing. She said them who get through the interview step. make a one WEEK test at work. (She work in production.)

 

Thomas,

 

I GREATLY appreciate your reply.  I won't address your points individually, but I thank you for doing so in your reply.  LOTS of good stuff for me to think about and also to research.  Invaluable information and I thank you SO much!

Be well!

Joel

[Pigboat]

I have a BS degree is Business Admin.  I would like to think that I can organize a new biz in the Phils. Perhaps that is naive

 

Hello Pigboat,

 

Yeah, that would help a great deal but I must tell you may have to study advanced BA courses in the Philippines about 

monkey business.....he, he.  And guess what, having the extended family involved may give you some sleepless nights

about what happen to your inventory or their creative math in order to balance the books.  Many Filipinos don't think

about tomorrow.  They don't think long term (investment).  Work ethics, reliability, honesty and being self motivated are

typically not common in the local workforce.     

 

There are just too many horror stories about the helpful or enterprising expat losing his initial capital.  Please, study or

discuss all you can before your departure.  You worked so hard in the western world......why give yourself unnecessary

grief during your golden years.  Rather, you should invest in your health which should give you a decent ROI.  

 

Just sit back and smell the coconut.......respectfully -- Jake

Jake,

 

Thanks for your reply.  I appreciate the comments and suggestions.  I have heard of the corruption, etc. there both online and from my wife.  I will be sure to take that into account when I'm writing up my business plan.

 

Thanks mucho!

Joel

[Jack Peterson]

I will be sure to take that into account when I'm writing up my business plan.

 

Joel! my friend, be very careful who, you show that business plan to, Never leave copies of Drafts or Finished plans around. :no:  Corruption can start anywhere, along the way,  Even stealing your Business Ideas, Not even the family saw anything we were working on and we never, discuss any business, outside the House, to Anyone. Not Even to  the Bank or Lawyer until we, are ready. IMHO, play your cards, as close to your chest as you can.

 

Negative thoughts, NO! Just Forward Planning and Once Bitten Twice shy Attitude now!  :thumbsup:

For Safety & Security. Be, " One Step Ahead on All, Things"

 

You have to Trust, Someone I know but make sure it is just, Your Lovely Wife, Your Partner in Life & Business.

 

Hope it all goes well. :)

 

 

Morning All. Happy Sunday JP :tiphat:  :morning1:

[Pigboat]

 

I will be sure to take that into account when I'm writing up my business plan.

 

Joel! my friend, be very careful who, you show that business plan to, Never leave copies of Drafts or Finished plans around. :no:  Corruption can start anywhere, along the way,  Even stealing your Business Ideas, Not even the family saw anything we were working on and we never, discuss any business, outside the House, to Anyone. Not Even to  the Bank or Lawyer until we, are ready. IMHO, play your cards, as close to your chest as you can.

 

Negative thoughts, NO! Just Forward Planning and Once Bitten Twice shy Attitude now!  :thumbsup:

For Safety & Security. Be, " One Step Ahead on All, Things"

 

You have to Trust, Someone I know but make sure it is just, Your Lovely Wife, Your Partner in Life & Business.

 

Hope it all goes well. :)

 

 

Morning All. Happy Sunday JP :tiphat:  :morning1:

 

I thank you for the advice, Jack and rest assured that I will take it to heart.