An example of problems with land ownership

[Dave Hounddriver]

I present this topic to show that even Philippine citizens with title to their land may not own it.  The problems of land ownership are convoluted and stressful.

My 'Coles Notes' version of what is going on is that some developers applied for title to some land and got it.  Then the people who had been living on the land for generations started squawking about getting the title set aside.  They feel they should be the ones to own the land.

When the courts decided it was time to demolish the existing structures and give the land to the developers, then the residents just changed lawyers and started the whole thing over again.

Read it for yourself here

http://www.visayandailystar.com/2016/April/06/negor3.htm

[Jake]

1 hour ago, Dave Hounddriver said:

I present this topic to show that even Philippine citizens with title to their land may not own it.  The problems of land ownership are convoluted and stressful.

My 'Coles Notes' version of what is going on is that some developers applied for title to some land and got it.  Then the people who had been living on the land for generations started squawking about getting the title set aside.  They feel they should be the ones to own the land.

When the courts decided it was time to demolish the existing structures and give the land to the developers, then the residents just changed lawyers and started the whole thing over again.

Read it for yourself here

http://www.visayandailystar.com/2016/April/06/negor3.htm

Standard operating procedures because it's mo pun in da Philippines.  With professional squatters, to outright land grabbing, to the government's CARP program.....what are we going to do?  In many cases, how much will a lawyer or a judge take during his midnight under the table deals to rule in your favor?

[mogo51]

9 hours ago, Dave Hounddriver said:

I present this topic to show that even Philippine citizens with title to their land may not own it.  The problems of land ownership are convoluted and stressful.

My 'Coles Notes' version of what is going on is that some developers applied for title to some land and got it.  Then the people who had been living on the land for generations started squawking about getting the title set aside.  They feel they should be the ones to own the land.

When the courts decided it was time to demolish the existing structures and give the land to the developers, then the residents just changed lawyers and started the whole thing over again.

Read it for yourself here

http://www.visayandailystar.com/2016/April/06/negor3.htm

Very messy Dave.  Better to be a squatter in Phils me thinks!

[robert k]

Part of the problem of compulsory inheritance laws is the dilution of ownership. If the title is not updated every 10 years or so, who knows or can prove who the property owners are? In 50 years a house and lot could have 100 co-tenant owners. In another 50 years it could be 500. Who do you buy from? You aren't safe from anyone who didn't sign off on the sale. There is no title insurance in the Philippines.

For the Filipinos, what belongs to everyone...belongs to no one. All too often, when something belongs to no one, the state steps in and takes it over and may sell it to whom the state chooses. If you let your title become unclear, you will eventually be giving the property away.

[Jack Peterson]

 I find it odd, that so many posts go to that Word "Investment" Whatever happened to Buying some thing to live in and Enjoy life? I also find it odd that many are not escaping the Rat Race we all talk about but just start their own Rat Race again here. For me I came to Retire in Something I could afford and enjoy, not looking at what would I do if it went wrong. Maybe it is just me but I sometimes fail to see why so many are always looking over their Shoulder waiting for things to go wrong. That's the impression I get here Folks.

JMVHO But..............

[GregZ]

8 hours ago, robert k said:

Part of the problem of compulsory inheritance laws is the dilution of ownership. If the title is not updated every 10 years or so, who knows or can prove who the property owners are? In 50 years a house and lot could have 100 co-tenant owners. In another 50 years it could be 500. Who do you buy from? You aren't safe from anyone who didn't sign off on the sale. There is no title insurance in the Philippines.

For the Filipinos, what belongs to everyone...belongs to no one. All too often, when something belongs to no one, the state steps in and takes it over and may sell it to whom the state chooses. If you let your title become unclear, you will eventually be giving the property away.

First, clarification for Jack P.  This is no investment, except for the one attempting to make my lady happy.

robert k has a very good perspective on this one.  Let's talk about this situation, add in IGNORANCE and lack of MONEY and see what happens.  These are the culprits in my particular case.  (NOTE: There is family involved and my wife wanted to help the person in need by buying this property or we would have never touched it.  So, please, no counseling that I "should have known better", because I did.  I predicted that we would end up where we are now.  LOL  Man, I hate being right.)

We FINALLY got the alleged owner of a property to the lawyer's office here in Cebu City to make everything legal about us buying this property back in 2013.  We had "deed transfer" papers and the general population involved said we were done.  Those papers had no official seal or clearance indicated by the title taxing authority or the land ownership tracking office (whatever name it officially has).  I said all along we need to make this legal, make sure the taxes are straight and get clear title.  I was fighting everyone (couple of exceptions that had no influence) to get this done.  Gee, how to even explain this???

Back to the beginning I suppose, where there is actually title.

Real, titled owner, died in 1985.  We paid for 1/7th of his property because of 7 siblings to inherit his land.  Of those 7, 2 are passed and their 1/7th portions are owned by their children.  Let's say they have 6 children between them.

NOW: In order to get this title clear there are currently 11 people we have to track down and get signatures from.  There must be a survey paid for AND the inheritance taxes involved must be cleared for all 7 sections.  I look forward to the adventure...  No waiting is advised because as you may have guessed the 5 original siblings still alive are getting pretty old.  If another dies how many more personalities are involved?  I think we are lucky to only need 11 after 30 years. 

.

WAIT! A couple of the other 1/7th sections MAY HAVE BEEN SOLD in the same fashion as what they THOUGHT they sold the property to us with this "deed transfer" paperwork that has no official anything involved.  The same gentleman prepares all these documents for the area; makes me wonder how many more properties in this provintial area are confuded thus. So, do we have to find those buyers?  Legally, no. But in reality it will probably have to happen because the one who thought they SOLD the property will likely not pay.

Will they all sign and have money for the inheritance tax to get their section of the property in clear title?  The good news is that the general property taxes ARE PAID through 2015, YEAH.  That pleasantly surprised me.  It appears so far that all involved are wanting to get it done.  There may even be more wanting to sell, so we may end up buying other adjoining properties to add to our 1/7th.  ONLY after this is all settled of course.  Who knows what the future brings?

I am not a lawyer or a real estate agent.  That means don't use the information here as advice.  I am just relaying what I understand from my little air conditioned room in Cebu City.  I look forward to your comments, advice and jokes on this situation.  Maybe even some legal name clarifications of the correct offices to handle these matters, etc. HaHaHa  Plenty of room for comments.....

Picture attached shows the water 300 feet from the front door of our US$4000 house if everything works out, $5000 probably.  80 square meters property, 1 bed, 1 bath, Filipino style (block and wood with a gravel floor, carry in the water with plumbing out) but survived the typhoon.

There are rumors that I am buying all the properties there and opening a resort. LOL

Edited April 7, 2016 by GregZ

[Jollygoodfellow]

6 hours ago, Jack Peterson said:

Maybe it is just me but I sometimes fail to see why so many are always looking over their Shoulder waiting for things to go wrong. That's the impression I get here Folks.

JMVHO But..............

True, no point. Today I'm in contact with a 72 year guy who has lived in the Philippines for 36 years, owned a hotel, house and a dentist business with his wife in Manila. They sold all to build a nice house but suddenly, or I should say months back she took all the money and kids, tried to have him deported so now he is actually hungry living alone in a small space and dependent on a church sending a donation to live. So who knows when things could happen.

[Jack Peterson]

2 hours ago, GregZ said:

First, clarification for Jack P.  This is no investment,

 Well somewhere along the way things are not being understood BUT Tonight, I am to Tired and had to many Pops to answer so I will reserve my answer till the Morning  & I will say there is more to this than meets the eye 

Edited April 7, 2016 by Jack Peterson

[Ynot]

So what you are saying there is a slim my chance my future in-laws maybe able to keep their land they have lived on for the last 30 odd years and paying rent on as so have many other families have. Provided they have the money that is!!  What a great system!!!

Edited April 7, 2016 by Ynot

[Jack Peterson]

33 minutes ago, Ynot said:

So what you are saying there is a slim my chance my future in-laws maybe able to keep their land they have lived on for the last 30 odd years and paying rent on as so have many other families have. Provided they have the money that is!!  What a great system!!!

Sorry , maybe I have missed something, To what ( which Post) are you referring my friend.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Jack Peterson
little addition to put things in perspective.