United We Stand , Divided We Fall.

[cebuexpat]

Being here for long time, without leaving or going home and owning a business I have had the chance to meet alot of expats. They are also alot I have not met. I have to come the conclusion ,,,,,after many years of being on forums, local hang outs, and just hearing all around different gossip,,,,, that some of us try to destroy each other. I have no idea why.Things I have noticed over the years - * 60% of forum members, that seem to give the most opinion and advice on Philippine life, has only been here once or twice in their lifetime, and only stayed a few months.* The ones that are living here, seem to feel that they are the almightly and only ones who " Know whats its all about " and deserve a higher title and respect. They are the only ones with the real information, and the ones who are competely right on every subject.* If anyone is also living here, or may be doing as well as the ones already doing well, or might be threating the status of a " long timer ". Or business might be doing as well, then its time to start tearing them down. ( In the fear they might overide your status.) Maybe that is just normal nature. But I dont think so...Sometimes when I look at it and watch it, reminds me of wildlife. They go around pissing on their bushes, marking their territory. If another tries to come in to that territory, they will defend it, violently if neccessary. I am not speaking of any individual, or any one person. I am speaking of expats as a group and as a whole. NOT all do this. Lot of reasonable and easy going expats.....This is my opinon, My opinion only, this is what I would like to see. We already struggle here as foreigners. We dont have any rights, we are always targets, we have to work twice as hard as others to become successful. We are overcharged, weare scammed constantly. So why cant we all stick together and stop making it much harder. We have a battle with this place already as expats. Why do we fight amount ourselves. We all should help each other, with business, with things to do, with where to go, with get togethers, with just anything in general. We all have the same battle here, so we should not be so quick to down others. Sometimes we act more like the locals, in which we complain about alot. Also i think that most of us who have lived here for long periods, have assumed some of the local culture and ways, and we dont even realize it. We find ourselves jealous in business, jealous in forums, jealous in girls, jealous in seeing anyone doing good or having something. Plus the fact that living here for long period of time, and the constant troubles, let downs, scams, and in general sh&tty things that happen. That makes us hard, and sometimes quicker to give opinions. You know when you stay angry because of your surroundings for such a long time, and you cant vent it to govenment, nor to any organization, no law will help you, you just have to take it. After a while I think it truns us into meaner, more irritable, and general butt holes....EXAMPLE : I have seen guys posts questions or comments and the spelling is not good. ( Just like mine, I can't spell nothing most of the time) You can read the post, and even though some words are misspelled, you can perfectly understand the meaning and what the poster is asking. Someone will surely comment about the spelling, or make a joke or remark about it. I have seen this happen. What did they accomplish by doing that. What benefit by any means did they do. They done only to hurt someone feelings, and make a avenue for a remark to be returned and battle start. Then the question that was orginally asked, never gets answered. POST : We would like to warn people we got robbed on a boat coming from boracay. They got in my bag and got 3000 peso cash. If you are in this area, please be careful......REPLY : You were silly to have a bag with you, you should know better than to take large amounts of cash. Its your fault and you should not complain. You was a easy target. ( Then they will start telling all the things they should have done) What did that reply accomplish, how did he help the sisuation or the person at all. All he done was be a butthole, and invite a arguement. Even if he felt they should have done different.PROPER REPLY : Thanks for that info, I will watch for that if i am riding a boat in that area. You might would consider on your next trip ( Then tell them what to do) POST : Hello guys, I have new bar over here in ?????? If anyone ever this way stop in and take a look, like to meet you all........REPLY : This is self promotion, this is advertisement on this site, this is not allowed, this is trying to benefit to themselves, ban them immediatily..... blah blah blah.....PROPER REPLY : Thanks for letting us know, we will have to stop in and see your place. Good luck to you send me your link, I will put it on my website also. If you would like to advertise your site here more, please get with the admin, make a small dontation for the expenses of running the site and I am sure we can work something out to help you and your new busienss. Wish you all the luck....... We dont even realize its happening. I know they will always be those individuals who no matter how you try and what you say, that are just no dealing with. Ones who just are butt holes and always will be, and no way of helping or changing them... But if we can stand toghether and help each other, and stand united, those will find themsleves with no one. After staying out in the cold for a while, they will want to be part of the group that will stand for them also......For me, if you have a successful business, We should post it, we should put it on our sites. We should visit and support other expats business. If you have a great web site, we should link it, If you have personal needs, we should help, if we can. If your opinon differs from mine on a subject, I am happy to hear another side of the story. I wont degrade you for your thoughts or opinons or personal life. I wont attack you for something that makes no big deal. Guys, these forums are not going to make us rich, nor are they a major advertising venue for the world. ( Sorry forum owners ) They are a place for us to help each other, learn from each other, support each other, and in general met others so we can share experiences, get together with our own type, and just have fun.......... These are all just my opinons and thoughts. I am just a common stupid old country boy from Kentucky. If they help someone thats great. If they irritate someone sorry also....

[UZI]

Being here for long time, without leaving or going home and owning a business I have had the chance to meet alot of expats. They are also alot I have not met. I have to come the conclusion ,,,,,after many years of being on forums, local hang outs, and just hearing all around different gossip,,,,, that some of us try to destroy each other. I have no idea why.Things I have noticed over the years - * 60% of forum members, that seem to give the most opinion and advice on Philippine life, has only been here once or twice in their lifetime, and only stayed a few months.* The ones that are living here, seem to feel that they are the almightly and only ones who " Know whats its all about " and deserve a higher title and respect. They are the only ones with the real information, and the ones who are competely right on every subject.* If anyone is also living here, or may be doing as well as the ones already doing well, or might be threating the status of a " long timer ". Or business might be doing as well, then its time to start tearing them down. ( In the fear they might overide your status.) Maybe that is just normal nature. But I dont think so...Sometimes when I look at it and watch it, reminds me of wildlife. They go around pissing on their bushes, marking their territory. If another tries to come in to that territory, they will defend it, violently if neccessary. I am not speaking of any individual, or any one person. I am speaking of expats as a group and as a whole. NOT all do this. Lot of reasonable and easy going expats.....This is my opinon, My opinion only, this is what I would like to see. We already struggle here as foreigners. We dont have any rights, we are always targets, we have to work twice as hard as others to become successful. We are overcharged, weare scammed constantly. So why cant we all stick together and stop making it much harder. We have a battle with this place already as expats. Why do we fight amount ourselves. We all should help each other, with business, with things to do, with where to go, with get togethers, with just anything in general. We all have the same battle here, so we should not be so quick to down others. Sometimes we act more like the locals, in which we complain about alot. Also i think that most of us who have lived here for long periods, have assumed some of the local culture and ways, and we dont even realize it. We find ourselves jealous in business, jealous in forums, jealous in girls, jealous in seeing anyone doing good or having something. Plus the fact that living here for long period of time, and the constant troubles, let downs, scams, and in general sh&tty things that happen. That makes us hard, and sometimes quicker to give opinions. You know when you stay angry because of your surroundings for such a long time, and you cant vent it to govenment, nor to any organization, no law will help you, you just have to take it. After a while I think it truns us into meaner, more irritable, and general butt holes....EXAMPLE : I have seen guys posts questions or comments and the spelling is not good. ( Just like mine, I can't spell nothing most of the time) You can read the post, and even though some words are misspelled, you can perfectly understand the meaning and what the poster is asking. Someone will surely comment about the spelling, or make a joke or remark about it. I have seen this happen. What did they accomplish by doing that. What benefit by any means did they do. They done only to hurt someone feelings, and make a avenue for a remark to be returned and battle start. Then the question that was orginally asked, never gets answered. POST : We would like to warn people we got robbed on a boat coming from boracay. They got in my bag and got 3000 peso cash. If you are in this area, please be careful......REPLY : You were silly to have a bag with you, you should know better than to take large amounts of cash. Its your fault and you should not complain. You was a easy target. ( Then they will start telling all the things they should have done) What did that reply accomplish, how did he help the sisuation or the person at all. All he done was be a butthole, and invite a arguement. Even if he felt they should have done different.PROPER REPLY : Thanks for that info, I will watch for that if i am riding a boat in that area. You might would consider on your next trip ( Then tell them what to do) POST : Hello guys, I have new bar over here in ?????? If anyone ever this way stop in and take a look, like to meet you all........REPLY : This is self promotion, this is advertisement on this site, this is not allowed, this is trying to benefit to themselves, ban them immediatily..... blah blah blah.....PROPER REPLY : Thanks for letting us know, we will have to stop in and see your place. Good luck to you send me your link, I will put it on my website also. If you would like to advertise your site here more, please get with the admin, make a small dontation for the expenses of running the site and I am sure we can work something out to help you and your new business. Wish you all the luck....... We don't even realize its happening. I know they will always be those individuals who no matter how you try and what you say, that are just no dealing with. Ones who just are butt holes and always will be, and no way of helping or changing them... But if we can stand toghether and help each other, and stand united, those will find themselves with no one. After staying out in the cold for a while, they will want to be part of the group that will stand for them also......For me, if you have a successful business, We should post it, we should put it on our sites. We should visit and support other expats business. If you have a great web site, we should link it, If you have personal needs, we should help, if we can. If your opinon differs from mine on a subject, I am happy to hear another side of the story. I wont degrade you for your thoughts or opinons or personal life. I wont attack you for something that makes no big deal. Guys, these forums are not going to make us rich, nor are they a major advertising venue for the world. ( Sorry forum owners ) They are a place for us to help each other, learn from each other, support each other, and in general met others so we can share experiences, get together with our own type, and just have fun.......... These are all just my opinons and thoughts. I am just a common stupid old country boy from Kentucky. If they help someone thats great. If they irritate someone sorry also....

Cebuexpat,I have to agree with this statement

For me, if you have a successful business, We should post it, we should put it on our sites. We should visit and support other expats business. If you have a great web site, we should link it, If you have personal needs, we should help, if we can. I

I have been/am a member of a couple of forums that don't allow this because the sites have to be paid for & they don't like/allow free ads. I also know of sites that are free & allow members to recommend other sites, eateries or guest houses. If it helps the readers, why not. Know why the site exists in the 1st place to understand the rulesI have asked this question before but never had an answer. IS THIS A CEBU PROBLEM? I have lived in Asia for 12 years & in Philippines (Luzon) for 4 years with visits to family in Cebu. I haven't & expat friends here haven't experienced half the problems that seem to fill these forums. So, is it me that is lucky to not get ripped off by PNP or BI or City Hall or is Cebu a place that is anti Expat?Or, given the main subject matter, is it that Cebu has Expats that like to complain or pick faults? All I know is I don't see this in fighting as much on non Cebu focused forums.Anyone want to offer some enlightenment?Uzi

[Mr Lee]

Gentlemen, I have to agree with you both and that is why I keep saying lets make a difference and lets agree to disagree on some items but let us not fight about it all because in the end of the day, forums are all bs and the ones who seem to cause the most problems are IMO the ones who think they know it all, and no one knows it all. I am here, to help others and to learn from others, and I do not think a week goes by that I do not learn something new. So I totally agree that we all need to get along and I hate fights amongst members and expats, and I try my best to make them all friends, and most times it works and they do not have to end up loving each other, but they also do not have to stay hating each other. Now to answer your question Uzi, I do not think this is limited to Cebu since I have seen it in CDO and also in Manila, so I think it is because many people come to the Philippines to visit and think they are experts and then many of the people who live here think they are experts and it seems like clash of the titans. When I make a mistake, I admit it and since we are all human, I feel we will all have to make mistakes, and the guys who refuse to admit they can make mistakes, and be man enough to admit their mistakes, are the ones who will never learn and will always butt heads with others. I also think a lot of the arguing is caused by frustrated people taking out their frustration on others, for whatever reason they happen to be frustrated. Then on top of all that there are just the trouble makers who have nothing better to do but cause problems and that is what we try to stop from having on this forum, because the owner and the members of the Forum Support Team are here to help people and not attack them, because we want this to be better and different than the other forums which allows people to attack and threaten each other.So guys, thank you for your posts. :AddEmoticons04230:

[TheMason]

Also i think that most of us who have lived here for long periods, have assumed some of the local culture and ways, and we dont even realize it. We find ourselves jealous in business, jealous in forums, jealous in girls, jealous in seeing anyone doing good or having something. Plus the fact that living here for long period of time, and the constant troubles, let downs, scams, and in general sh&tty things that happen. That makes us hard, and sometimes quicker to give opinions. You know when you stay angry because of your surroundings for such a long time, and you cant vent it to govenment, nor to any organization, no law will help you, you just have to take it. After a while I think it truns us into meaner, more irritable, and general butt holes....

I think this paragraph explains a LOT of the problems. As a full-time resident here so many aspects of your life are completely out of your control. You really don't have much recourse when something goes wrong. You also don't have much outlet for your complaints and frustration. You don't have a date in your head that you only have xxx more days before returning to a more sane place. You're here for the forseeable future, come what may. Filipinos don't want to hear a foreigner complain about life here, they just tell you to go home if you don't like it. Your significant other is limited in how much they can help you because in most cases, they don't understand what its like to be a foreigner and having everyone stare at you like you're the new zoo exhibit. In my case, the forum serves as an outlet for my frustration and anger that I'm not free to express in my real life. Posting crappy replies on the forum makes me feel better. I realize that's a bit childish and not totally fair to the other members, but they can always put me on ignore if I get on their nerves too badly. I think I have made a lot of solid contributions to this forum, people can take my contributions or leave them as they see fit. As far as running down an expat's business, I don't do that. If I've been there and didn't like it I might post my experience if the business were being discussed, but I don't think I'd go out of my way to slam the business or its owner. At least, I haven't done that to date.

[jamesmusslewhite]

I just avoid expats for the most part. I am slow to warm up to new people, so I have a tendency to slowly get to know a person first. I being a family man, some small businesses, and a coconut farm it keeps be busy. I have found often that many expats have too much excess baggage or drama surrounding their lives. I do have a few expats who are married that I socialize with. I do not drink but on occasion so I am not the "meet at the bar" type. I have good Filipino friends, get along well with my wife's family, and really have a peaceful happy life. I personally love it here and always have even when I first started to come here to visit my wife back in 1985. I rarely have any problems with locals and get along well here. I visit Cebu maybe 4 times a year and Manila once a year, but I love it in Surigao City and enjoy the locals here. I treat everyone like I wish to be treated, and always show respect to others. It serves me well. My wife lived with me in Houston for 22 years so even though she is a dual citizen she id Texas at heart. We make a good home for our 15 year old son who really is the center of our life right now, everything else is just a distraction. When he is done with High School and goes off to college, then we will devote more time to travel and meeting more friends. It is a good life we have built for ourselves here. Why do expats try to tear another expat down? They still have that schoolyard mentality, where they separate the weak from the heard so they can pounce. Some believe they can be popular by picking on others. Some are just evil hearted, or just cold blooded. many are jealous because they see their failure when confronted with success. It is a shame it is that way. It reminds me of something Winston Churchill once said, "I like pigs, dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, and pigs see us a equals." Maybe there is some truth in that.

[Singers]

I just avoid expats for the most part. I am slow to warm up to new people, so I have a tendency to slowly get to know a person first. I being a family man, some small businesses, and a coconut farm it keeps be busy. I have found often that many expats have too much excess baggage or drama surrounding their lives. I do have a few expats who are married that I socialize with. I do not drink but on occasion so I am not the "meet at the bar" type. I have good Filipino friends, get along well with my wife's family, and really have a peaceful happy life. I personally love it here and always have even when I first started to come here to visit my wife back in 1985. I rarely have any problems with locals and get along well here. I visit Cebu maybe 4 times a year and Manila once a year, but I love it in Surigao City and enjoy the locals here. I treat everyone like I wish to be treated, and always show respect to others. It serves me well. My wife lived with me in Houston for 22 years so even though she is a dual citizen she id Texas at heart. We make a good home for our 15 year old son who really is the center of our life right now, everything else is just a distraction. When he is done with High School and goes off to college, then we will devote more time to travel and meeting more friends. It is a good life we have built for ourselves here. Why do expats try to tear another expat down? They still have that schoolyard mentality, where they separate the weak from the heard so they can pounce. Some believe they can be popular by picking on others. Some are just evil hearted, or just cold blooded. many are jealous because they see their failure when confronted with success. It is a shame it is that way. It reminds me of something Winston Churchill once said, "I like pigs, dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, and pigs see us a equals." Maybe there is some truth in that.

Hello James,My favourite "Winnie" Quote is his reply to a fellow MP in the Houses of Parliament when Lady Astor said to him "Sir you are DRUNK" Churchill replied "Madam you are ugly BUT I shall be sober in the morning" Trouble with some of the simpletons talked about recently on this Forum IS they awake as bitter as when they retired.Another Churchill quote may apply to you -- "I am easily satisfied -- with the best" as it applies to your Life in PI.Kind regards,UK Tom

[Braddo]

Hi Cebuexpat,Well said son I agree holy with what you have posted I thought forums were to help each other (expats) with information and idea's not to squabble like a bunch of bored kids.Anyway i hope they have kissed and made up:cheersty:Braddo

[Gold Heart]

Hi Cebuexpat,Well said son I agree holy with what you have posted I thought forums were to help each other (expats) with information and idea's not to squabble like a bunch of bored kids.Anyway i hope they have kissed and made upBraddo

Totally agree. I think we have to keep this in mind when making decisions about posts and responses the primary purpose is help and learn. It is clearly why I'm here and why I contribute. I would love to learn more about local businesses so that I can support them and gain ideas on new opoprtunities to make a life here. I understand the fear of competition and that a good unique spot, idea, location, might be spoiled thorugh common knowledge and that someone might be jealous of the success of others. I hope we can overcome this and focus on helping and sharing as much as possible. We will all benefit in the long run.

[mike]

Gentlemen, I have to agree with you both and that is why I keep saying lets make a difference and lets agree to disagree on some items but let us not fight about it all because in the end of the day, forums are all bs and the ones who seem to cause the most problems are IMO the ones who think they know it all, and no one knows it all. I am here, to help others and to learn from others, and I do not think a week goes by that I do not learn something new. So I totally agree that we all need to get along and I hate fights amongst members and expats, and I try my best to make them all friends, and most times it works and they do not have to end up loving each other, but they also do not have to stay hating each other. Now to answer your question Uzi, I do not think this is limited to Cebu since I have seen it in CDO and also in Manila, so I think it is because many people come to the Philippines to visit and think they are experts and then many of the people who live here think they are experts and it seems like clash of the titans. When I make a mistake, I admit it and since we are all human, I feel we will all have to make mistakes, and the guys who refuse to admit they can make mistakes, and be man enough to admit their mistakes, are the ones who will never learn and will always butt heads with others. I also think a lot of the arguing is caused by frustrated people taking out their frustration on others, for whatever reason they happen to be frustrated. Then on top of all that there are just the trouble makers who have nothing better to do but cause problems and that is what we try to stop from having on this forum, because the owner and the members of the Forum Support Team are here to help people and not attack them, because we want this to be better and different than the other forums which allows people to attack and threaten each other.So guys, thank you for your posts. :AddEmoticons04230:

I am not sure that there is not an on line group anywhere in the world that does not have some or all of the issues mentioned. This forum is no different in that regard.The well run forums like this one, the ones in CDO and "another forum" manage themselves pretty well. The archives of help full posts and files sections with helpful information determine the value of a group.I sometimes wonder at the motivation for some of the posts and wonder if the poster has really thought through what they are saying. Then again, why think it through if you just having a yarn and banter.I ignore most posts on most forums, if only for it not being relevant to me or I have seen the topic done to death :thumbs-up-smile: elsewhere and feel there is no value in adding to it.I suspect that any poster anywhere challenged to think long and hard about what it is they are about to post in terms of value may then decide not to post. Others will post because its a chat board and they are bored!!Probably links in to why it is that so few are active posters, how many times does that get asked on the net community anywhere?!As for supporting business ventures of other expats I always and I do mean always! look at expats businesses first before purchasing and I recommend expat business ahead of all others if its within identified budgets etc.:th_noproblem:There are always going to be those who see problems and prefer to be negative and critical. There are always those who will have an opinion that you may not recognize as reality as you are in the place they just talk about! how many times I have I seen that.!The Philippines is not a risk free zone. Being in business does raise the risk factor without a doubt. being high profile makes it even riskier. I store on file every comment I get direct to me from people under assumed names with some of the meanest and ugliest thoughts and wishes including death threats that could be considered. They come from expats who are not in the Philippines and and some Pinays who feel that they can post anything they like about what ever they wish thinking they are not known. The expats have never been to my business and the others are for reasons known to them not welcome as they are identified scammers etc.Just the price of successfully doing business in the Philippines and I expect the same in other locations where similar mindsets are at work.Just ignore, get on with doing what I do and in business have the expectation that I will be better than the competition and that in itself will deliver its own success.There you see I have become one of those rambling posters! Edited April 4, 2010 by Mr. Lee
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[jamesmusslewhite]

I have noticed on most forums. that as member's post numbers increase they tend to equate that as developing an all-knowing vision. It is the quality of a post and not the quantity of post that makes a member either wise or foolish. I have seen many times that members with fewer post numbers or newer membership dates have a true grasp of a given subject and give better advice. Then they receive a backlash by an older or more prolific member. It is condescending, intellectually dishonest, more of an act of cowardice, and at best totally disrespectful of other members. Wisdom is knowing when you are right and accept when you are wrongs, and do both with the same humility. It is often impossible to get a fool, simpleton, or a redneck to realize they are the only ones believing in what they say, and they are the only ones that do not realizes everyone else knows it. A fool can post 10,000 times and be a member of a forum 10 years and still just be an arrogant, pop-off, loud-mouthed, simpleton, with a inflated ego and too much false pride.This is why often their is infighting among members. Just because you are Old and lucky, does not make you wise and successful. Idiots, fools, rednecks, and simpletons can live to the age of 120 too, but true wisdom can be found within a small child. Maturity and wisdom is something that not everyone can obtain, achieve, or display. Question: Why is it called "Common Sense", when it is something so rarely seen? So nobody is offended by my usage of the term Redneck, let me specify my definition of it's usage. Texans know Rednecks.Texas definition of a Redneck: A misinformed person who will argue, knowing they are supporting an incorrect stance on an issue during a debate, as to make you accept them as correct; rather than having the class or intelligence to admit they are wrong.

Edited April 4, 2010 by jamesmusslewhite