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Vaccine or No Vaccine


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It is possible to say, "No." to vaccination and continue life with no effect from the virus.  But should you be someone who gets sick, very sick, long term hospitalization and possible death are potential consequences.  Who pays for a two weeks stay at a hospital intensive care unit assuming someone survives?  After vaccination, the chances of getting sick from Covid-19 is reduced by 98.9%.  A vaccinated person could still contract the virus, but the Israeli studies indicate the severity would be similar to a bad flu treatable at home.  Equally as important, no deaths.

While segregating the two camps might be impractical, there can be two societal classes like the haves and have nots.  To board an airplane, train, ship or bus may require showing proof of vaccination.  The same for attending a sporting event, movie theater, concert or visiting a bar.  This might not be possible in the United States and Great Britain over concerns about freedom and liberty, but it is interesting to note both countries are studying the issue.  What about the Philippines?  An announcement in the form of a memorandum from the Covid-19 Task Force could limit shopping mall entry to those who are vaccinated.  Similar edicts for other venues.  The infrastructure is already in place (security guards everywhere) who can check vaccination papers or digitally stored information.

I am curious to know how others are thinking on this topic.  

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4 hours ago, JJReyes said:

should you be someone who gets sick, very sick, long term hospitalization and possible death are potential consequences.  Who pays for a two weeks stay at a hospital intensive care unit

drugs . . . smoking . .  obesity . .  etc . .  same argument, same result

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8 hours ago, JJReyes said:

(security guards everywhere) who can check vaccination papers or digitally stored information.

 

Sounds like something one sector of society were forced to endure in 1939 in Nazi Germany.
What mark can we place on the disgusting unwashed this time in order to segregate them efficiently from decent upstanding citizens and residence?? 
A yellow star?

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1 hour ago, fred said:

 

Sounds like something one sector of society were forced to endure in 1939 in Nazi Germany.
What mark can we place on the disgusting unwashed this time in order to segregate them efficiently from decent upstanding citizens and residence?? 
A yellow star?

A clear difference being that it would be very easy to renounce the beliefs and behavior leading to segregation.

Come to the Dark Side, fred. We have cookies! And next time we meet I'll bring some of my famous chocolate covered bacon.

Edited by Guy F.
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Many country's governments are watching the Israeli case very closely, with regards to both rates of infection (they have dropped dramatically since their program began) and how their "vaccination pass" system fares.  So far, both appear to have been very effective in stemming the spread.  

In Australia, the federal government has made noises that it may implement a similar system to Israel but it has to get the states on side and so far, state governments of both stripes, both centre and conservative, are making noises that they'd be on board with the idea.  Overall, other than giving themselves pay rises, the pandemic has been one of the few instances of bi-partisan co-operation in recent Australian history.  As to who pays if you refuse and become ill?  Our universal health system probably will.  I have an opinion on that but I'll keep it to myself.  

As for PI?  Who knows which way El Presidente will jump and even when he does make up his mind, how long before he changes it.  I have a mate there that is about to leave the country due to his tourist visa coming to the end of its 3 years and he has no idea when he'll be able to re-enter given the recently imposed tighter restrictions on all foreign nationals, regardless of family connections, but hopefully a vaccination may be the key?  I don't think anyone can say whether or not the restrictions will be extended beyond 22nd of April.  I have no idea how the vaccinations are being rolled out in PI, whether they're free or not, or which vaccinations are being used, and a lot hinges on those things and what can or cannot be implemented

Edited by BrettGC
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10 hours ago, JJReyes said:

the chances of getting sick from Covid-19 is reduced by 98.9%

The United States military is going to issue the Johnson and Johnson vaccine to troops in Japan/South Korea (according to American Forces Network (AFN)).  Percentages seem to vary, depending on who is putting the information out.

They all work well, health experts say. The Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna shots were more than 94% effective in their late-stage trials, while J&J’s effectiveness was 66%. But the difference may be less than it seems. The Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna shots were tested before the emergence of strains like one first identified in South Africa, which various studies have indicated eludes vaccines somewhat, though they still work against it. J&J’s vaccine was tested in South Africa, and its effectiveness wasn’t as high there as in other countries, hurting the vaccine’s overall effectiveness.

Yet health experts say J&J’s vaccine is plenty effective. Importantly, it was 85% effective against severe Covid-19 at least 28 days after vaccination. That suggests the vaccine should help many people avoid the kinds of serious cases that result in hospitalizations.  J&J’s Covid-19 Vaccine: How Does the One-Dose Shot Compare With Others? What You Need to Know - WSJ

 

Edit: Yeochief please copy and paste the article for us? Wall Street journal being a pay to view outlet and blocks users from reading. Also its the forum policy to copy and paste for those members with slow internet or if the link gets broken. I'm not calling you out. Others do the same but in this case the information is valuable and interesting. Thanks for understanding I mean no disrespect to you. :2245_safe:

Edited by Old55
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7 hours ago, Dave Hounddriver said:

drugs . . . smoking . .  obesity . .  etc . .  same argument, same result

Is there a quick fix jag readily available to "neutralise" those though, Dave?

 

 

 

 

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I'm still at the stage where I don't know how they can say that the vaccine is making x difference or not.  We already know that you can have about 8.4k people couped up in Rizal stadium Manila for a two weeks and out of them 4 people test positive for covid. Why did the others escape infection from the worst pandemic in years and that was before any vaccine was produced?  I also know of multiple other cases where only one or two family members living in cramped conditions caught it.  Now if I was a vaccine producer and had vaccinated them all and stood back to see the results I'd be arguing my vaccine is the dogs danglies and has proven to work. 

We also know that before the vaccine was produced some people have no symptoms, some have mild and a tiny percentage get hospitalised. The CDC stated that 4.6 out of every 100,000 people testing positive for covid get hospitalised. I've cut and pasted the paragraph here:  During March 1–28, 2020, the overall laboratory-confirmed COVID-19–associated hospitalization rate was 4.6 per 100,000 population; rates increased with age, with the highest rates among adults aged ≥65 years. Approximately 90% of hospitalized patients identified through COVID-NET had one or more underlying conditions, the most common being obesity, hypertension, chronic lung disease, diabetes mellitus, and cardiovascular disease.  Again if 100,000 were vaccinated and only 4.6 required hospitalisation my vaccine would be the little dogs danglies.

Throw in that as treatments and care improve we are seeing a greater survival rate again as seen before the vaccine was issued how can the experts tie this down to a vaccine?

As I say it is still early days to say how effective the results are and as the experts are saying that a small number of blood clots shouldn't be tied to a vaccine then surely a small number of vaccinated people not dying of covid can't be credited to the vaccine either as only a tiny amount would die anyway.

Edited by Snowy79
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Correction to the above post.  48 tested positive out of over 8.4k in the Rizal stadium despite zero social distancing for 2 weeks. 

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This what I can copy.  When I heard that the United States Military was getting it, I looked it up.  I don't pay for Wall Street either.

 

By 

Johnson & Johnson ’s Covid-19 vaccine was authorized for use in the U.S. by federal health regulators. It is the third shot to be cleared after shots from Pfizer Inc. and its partner BioNTech SE and from Moderna Inc. And it is the first shot requiring just one dose, rather than two. Here’s what we know and don’t know:

How do the three Covid-19 vaccines compare?

They all work well, health experts say. The Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna shots were more than 94% effective in their late-stage trials, while J&J’s effectiveness was 66%. But the difference may be less than it seems. The Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna shots were tested before the emergence of strains like one first identified in South Africa, which various studies have indicated eludes vaccines somewhat, though they still work against it. J&J’s vaccine was tested in South Africa, and its effectiveness wasn’t as high there as in other countries, hurting the vaccine’s overall effectiveness.

Yet health experts say J&J’s vaccine is plenty effective. Importantly, it was 85% effective against severe Covid-19 at least 28 days after vaccination. That suggests the vaccine should help many people avoid the kinds of serious cases that result in hospitalizations. 

Which Covid-19 vaccine should I get?

The first one you can, health authorities say. It is possible that individuals won’t have much of a choice because of limited supplies and the vaccination site might only offer one of the shots. If you do have a choice, there are some key differences that could guide your decision. J&J’s vaccine is given as a single dose, which may be a more convenient option than the two doses required for both of the Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines, given three or four weeks apart. Only the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine is authorized for adolescents 16 and 17 years old, while J&J and Moderna’s shots are cleared for those 18 and older.

When can I get J&J’s shot?

J&J has been making doses while testing its shot, so it will be able to ship nearly four million doses within a few days. Vaccinations will be limited at first, however. The company plans to deliver 20 million doses for U.S. use by the end of March. Then production will really pick up, as J&J projects shipping 100 million doses by the end of June.

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