Why Did You, Or Why Do You Want To Move To The Philippines

[TheMason]

We are on a trial so a permanent decision has not been reached. The reasons for moving here were based of course on knowledge gained from previous visits and influenced by the fact my wife is from here.The overall reason is the hope for a better quality of life.

1. Year round tropical climate -- Preferring warm climates, I grew up in Chicago and spent most of my life in New York. I hate winters.
2. Friendly and English speaking people. I find people here welcoming, friendly, and exceptionally courteous. I never get greeted and called sir and welcomed in words in the US. Children offer respect that you don't find in the US.
3. Affordable personal services. I could not afford a maid or driver in the US. For the cost of what it took to get my grass cut in North Carolina $45 / cut every 2 weeks. I get a full time live in maid + here. Prospects for paying reasonable / low costs for tutors to learn language, photography, scuba, dancing, etc. My haircuts are 1/4 the cost and include a massage.
4. Healthy living - Access to fresh fish and vegetables, gyms in the city, pool at home or nearby, beach in reach
5. Affordable travel for adventure in exotic places, beaches, both in the Philippines and nearby Asian countries -- some that I've never been. Although many places yet to explore in the US -- I'd been to all the majors.

There are some things sacraficed to achieve these things like security but that is not the question. We will see how the trial works. My son and I are sold. My wife is ready to go back. We have just begun our trial so hopefully we will stay. The other option is the "Snowbird" life if it can be afforded. 3-4 months in the US during the summer , 7-8 months here in the winter -- aligning with the school schedule.

Of the items you mentioned.....1. I hate the hot and humid weather common to much of the Philippines. I live in Baguio where it is never hot enough to require AC in the summer and seldom cool enough to require heating in the winter. I like the weather in Baguio quite a bit, but could not live happily in other areas.2. People here are friendly on the surface but I think there is far more fake friendliness and animosity towards foreigners than is readily apparent. This is the primary area where permanent residency gave me a different picture of life. The Philippines is an every man (or family) for themselves, dog eat dog type of place. Many of the friendly smiles you see are because people are thinking about how much better off they'll be once they separate you from your money.3. Can't argue with this point, but its not important to me. I don't want a maid or driver and I've been mostly bald for going on 20 years. My last real haircut was over 15 years ago.4. I don't think the Philippines is a particularly healthy place to live. You might be able to get fresh fruit and fish but they are likely to be tainted by fertilizers, steroids, and other contaminants. Along with that, you also get very poor air quality, questionable drinking water, poor to nonexistent sewage systems, high levels of infectious disease, lower quality medical care, and poor infrastructure. Poor infrastructure may not seem like a health risk, at least not until you have a heart attack and need to get to the hospital quickly.5. Affordable travel is true and is one of the primary things I like about living here. I've been able to see many different places very affordably while living here. I will miss that about the Philippines, but I can visit South/Central America, the 50 States, and Canada just as cheaply from the US.

Hi The Mason. I'm new here (have a look at my intro). That was an interesting post. Could you elaborate on what you meant by extended visits not being the same as permanent residency? I know a lot (probably most) of western foreigners want to create a "little America" (or Australia, UK, Canada or whatever) and end up becoming disappointed because things just aren't the same as back "home". For myself, I basically went back to Australia for financial reasons. At the time I was in my late 30s and I basically ran out of money. I had this idea in my head that I could start a business, which would support me and my wife. The other issue was the feeling of isolation. I ended up spending way too much time hanging out with other foreigners and drinking and bitching about life there. I'm actually going to return to live there in 2 years time with my wife and two kids. There will be a lot of thing we will be doing differently this time around, including spending more time with the locals. We will definitely be financially prepared this time around Andrew

The feeling of isolation is one of the key problems for me. I don't hang out with foreigners too much or spend much time bitching about life in general. I do that on the forums, not in my real life. :th_thsmilies-29057: I've found that I relied on my family more for support when I was living in the US then I thought I did. I love spending time with my wife and her family but I miss my other family members more than I thought I would. I'm also weary of being 'the foreigner'. At first, it was cute when the neighborhood kids stopped what they were doing to stare when I walked by. It was funny when people asked my wife questions like I was an object, not a person. (What does he eat? Does he watch TV? Does he know any tricks?) Now, its just insulting and annoying. I did not come to the Philippines as a new expat. I've lived permanently in India and Mexico for extended periods before moving to the Philippines, so I'm not new to the expat lifestyle and challenges. There is just something about the way Filipinos treat foreigners that really turns me off and makes me feel unwelcome here. I probably spend too much time reading the news here, but I'm a political science/history grad so I can't help myself. I really dislike the way foreigners are portrayed by the govt. and media. It is clear from the coverage and comments that the Philippines welcomes the foreigner's wallet, but are far less welcoming of the foreigner himself. When anything goes wrong, its the foreigner's fault.This treatment of foreigners bubbles down to the average people as well. You can overcome it on a one-to-one basis through friendships but most people do not have a high opinion of foreigners here. So, those are some of the reasons I'm ready to call it a day and head back to the US.

[TheMason]

Addendum to my prior post.....The lack of civil liberties and civil rights has also worn on me over time. As a tourist or long-time temporary visitor I didn't really notice the lack of civil rights because I wasn't attempting to be a full participant in society. Now that I live here, it bothers me that the law gives me very few rights. If I have any type of legal dispute with a local, the few rights I do have are very likely to be abrogated in favor of the local no matter what the facts of the case are. If you have any type of legal or civil dispute with a local, be prepared to to buy your way out of it because you will not win in court. If you think a local is a thieving jackass, be prepared to stifle your emotions...you can be deported for insulting a Filipino.If you have any policital opinions, be prepared to keep it to yourself....you can be deported for getting involved in politics.So basically, I don't want to live in a country where....--The air is grossly polluted and the food and water is of questionable safety.--the govt. and people view me as a wealthy target to extract money from any possible way, legal or otherwise.--I will always be at fault and lose virtually all disputes with a local.--I must keep my mouth shut and take abuses rather than risk insulting someone or causing them to 'lose face'.I would much rather live somewhere that welcomes me as a resident and permits me to be a full participant in society. After nearly 2 years here, I know the Philippines is not that place for me.I won't even get into the security and safety issues since an earlier post said they weren't part of the question. However, you should really consider those issues before living here. You get a much different view as a permanent resident than you do as a visitor.

[Gold Heart]

The Mason,Thanks for your post and response. I'd like to share some different perspective on the different points you raise.

1. Weather choices are a matter of taste. If you can't take hot humid weather, I agree the Philippines is genenerally not for you.
2. One might argue that all courtesy is artificial. How many people who say good morning to you actually mean it? Folowing the what I learned from Dale Carnegie many years ago -- "act enthusiastic and you will be enthusiastic" whether it is heartfelt or not, it makes a difference. The greetings and courtesy make you feel welcome and respected. Compare this to no greeting and the US and most other places and "what do you want?" if you work to get someone attention. This is in fact another reason why Call centers are attracted here.
3. I used some examples on personal services not to suggest you would use them or need them, (maid, driver, etc.). There is no question these things enhance the quality of life. I could not get a baby sitter in the US because of cost, which prevented my wife and I from going out when we wanted. I had chores to do and could not afford to pay others to do them which prevented me from doing things for recreation.
4. You are right about the air smog and water quality, medical environment and infrastructure. Those are big negatives. My thinking was that much of what affects the healthly lifestyle however are personal choices. Choices that would prevent the heart attack in the first place. This may be related to the personal services item. When you have a cook / maid and restaurants are affordable, you are less likely to eat unhealthy fast foods. The medical situation has always been a concern. I will have to investigate the use of cantaminants in foods here. I'm not aware of issues with that here. Do you have a source for the state of and quality of food grown here?
5. Becaues of airline difficulties the low cost carriers are almost gone in the US. They are just not there any more. There is also a difference in service throughout Asia -- it is of higher quality generally. The top rated airlines and hotels in the world are here.

I suspect I may get to the point of isolation at some point. For now I'm in the same position as you working and have my wife and some friends. I do reach out, try and hope to connect with other expats. Its in fact one of the reasons I'm here on this forum. Your response helps to think through the long term elements of the decision to live here. Thanks

[MikeB]

Addendum to my prior post.....The lack of civil liberties and civil rights has also worn on me over time. As a tourist or long-time temporary visitor I didn't really notice the lack of civil rights because I wasn't attempting to be a full participant in society. Now that I live here, it bothers me that the law gives me very few rights. If I have any type of legal dispute with a local, the few rights I do have are very likely to be abrogated in favor of the local no matter what the facts of the case are. If you have any type of legal or civil dispute with a local, be prepared to to buy your way out of it because you will not win in court. If you think a local is a thieving jackass, be prepared to stifle your emotions...you can be deported for insulting a Filipino.If you have any policital opinions, be prepared to keep it to yourself....you can be deported for getting involved in politics.So basically, I don't want to live in a country where....--The air is grossly polluted and the food and water is of questionable safety.--the govt. and people view me as a wealthy target to extract money from any possible way, legal or otherwise.--I will always be at fault and lose virtually all disputes with a local.--I must keep my mouth shut and take abuses rather than risk insulting someone or causing them to 'lose face'.I would much rather live somewhere that welcomes me as a resident and permits me to be a full participant in society. After nearly 2 years here, I know the Philippines is not that place for me.I won't even get into the security and safety issues since an earlier post said they weren't part of the question. However, you should really consider those issues before living here. You get a much different view as a permanent resident than you do as a visitor.

I don't have anything to add to the excellent points that you and Gold Heart have stated except to say I appreciate and respect both of you for sharing your personal experiences with the forum, and expressing them in such an intelligent way - and thanks to Lee for bringing up this topic.I have been planing to move there in early 2011 for about 4 years now for various reasons but the 1st line of this post really gives me pause. Like a lot of others on the forum, I've been there only for vacations at a few weeks or a month at a time and, although I've read about it, never really considered the full implications of being an outsider; both legally and societelly. There's good and bad aspects of life in all places and I think it's not a matter of what you like but what suits each individual best. Thanks

[TheMason]

Despite my feelings about living here, I would recommend living here for others. You just need to make sure you don't cut all ties to your own country, and leave yourself a big enough financial cushion so you can move back to your own country and get back on your feet there if needed. There's no harm in trying it out. I enjoy living abroad and would not trade the experiences I've had here. Its not for me on a permanent basis, but I don't regret trying it.

[Mr Lee]

Thank all of you have posted so far and I hope more will join in and give their opinions and reasoning. Much of what has already been said can be true but is not always the case. We all see things differently.As has been said, weather is a personal choice and while we have not lived in the Philippines full time, we have been there at lot of the times of the year that I would consider the worst. There is no question in my mind that summers can be brutally hot but they are the same when we are in Florida so that does not bother me as long as we can have our air conditioning. Therein lies another problem, infrastructure that does not seem to allow constant power. I keep getting emails from VECO telling me to possibly expect daily power outages and that does not make me at all happy. Of course living in a condo then has some benefits because of the massive generator they have to run the common areas and elevators but not our A/C. :th_signs027: I hope the government will address this situation quickly because it has never felt like a third world country to us while in Cebu, CDO or Makati but if this is not addressed and fixed quickly then it shouts third world country to the world. I guess we all have different priorities in life and A/C is important to me because I get bronchitis easily because of the pollution if I do not spend a good part of my days in a clean air environment. So pollution should also be addressed and the burning of garbage is more of a cause in my mind because also people burn tires and plastics and when that is going on then I must stay inside with A/C and I just hope the power is not out at that time. :541: It is very true that there is a big difference from being a tourist and living in the Philippines but that is also true of any country and I suspect that TheMason is going to find that the US is also very different than he remembers and that is why so many people who can, seem to be heading for what they perceive to be greener pastures and the Philippines is one of those and especially for those of us married to Filipino ladies.I have never had a problem with the locals because of my positive outlook and my outgoing friendly ways. Being on forums has given me a much better view of people and we have had the good fortune to meet some exceptional people because of the forums yet the opposite is also true and we have also met many others who make the rest of us look bad IMO and I wish those miserable individuals could see themselves from others eyes.Over the years I have had way too many Filipinos tell me that I am different from other whites and when it was said to me once, I did not know what to make of it but when it has been said to me time and time again, that gives me pause and I think many of us need to do the best we can to make up for some of the people who threat Filipinos poorly because that seems to be an overall perception of round eyes by many Filipinos who have probably been treated like dirt by some. IMO we need to bring about change and I think when the good treatments out number the bad then and only then will perception of round eyes change. I have watched so many round eyes yell, curse, call Filipinos stupid, act superior, and show total disrespect but claim that they are immersed in the culture yet do things that a Filipino would never do in public and I could go on and on but I think you all get the idea. We are all judged by the actions of the ass holes so it is very hard on those of us who are not ass holes and we need to do our best to change that perception one Filipino at a time, so we cannot fall into the negativity trap because it is quite easy to do that. Just because one Filipino tries to rip us off or treats us with disrespect does not mean they all will and we need to remember that just like Filipinos need to learn that we are not all alike.IMO you have to take it from where it comes and respect has to be earned. One example that I can personally give is that on one forum I have seen numerous posts where Koreans have often been cursed out and it is often said that they are all bad and that is just some peoples prospective because I have not found that to be true and we have many Koreans in our condo building and when in the elevators hallways, lobby etc, I make the first move and greet them and joke around and then most joke back and are very friendly not only that day but every time they see me. You get in life what you give and while I have had some Koreans and some Filipinos snub me, I have also had many round eyes snub me yet most Koreans will reply and then be friendly because I try my best to treat all people as equals, I do not look down on any race as a whole and I try to treat each individual as that person deserves to be treated. I feel this rule also applies to all races and if a person can feel genuine kindness from us then they will most often reciprocate with same.Life is what a person makes it and even when we are in the US, I will hold a door open for people or greet them and when I do it for some other races and nationalities including some of my own then sometimes they are friendly back and sometimes they get nasty, but I just keep doing it and will because only through spreading the word that we are all individual and should be treated as such, will this world change.Another great example in my mind was a Muslim Cleric that we met in the Philippine passport office in Mindanao, he had hatred in his eyes when he asked me if I was an American and when I responded yes it got even worse until we talked and I explained that the people of the US do not always totally agree with every actions of its president much like the people of the Philippines may not always agree with the actions of their president and we talked for about 20 minutes or so while my wife was processing her passport, and then when we were done, he was the first one to raise his hand to shake mine and to tell me that he thanked me for the conversation and enlightenment that all Americans were not the bad people he had thought we all were. My guess is he was a radical or had not had much contact with Americans face to face ever before or the ones he did meet were all ass holes based on what he said to me but he spoke perfect English so I have to wonder where he was educated. Again all, you get what you give and if you allow yourself to become discouraged then you will always be unhappy no matter where you go. I am not totally happy with the US or the Philippines but either place can be our home because I accept the shortcomings of both and I am a foreigner in both, :th_thsmilies-29057: even though I was born an American. I believe we can overcome hatred and bigotry if we all try hard to do it one person at a time. IMO it may take ten or more nice people to make up for one encounter with an one ass hole round eye. Just look around you when you are in the Philippines and remember how many ass holes foreigners Filipinos have to put up with on a regular basis.

Edited December 14, 2009 by Mr. Lee

[daisy]

and remember also here in the Philippines, when your Filipina wife will get bored while you are slowly enjoying your beer, she will just simply say, " Honey, you drink your beer so slowly"! Isn't it lovingly said? Anyway, beyond any comfort or hardship you may have here, there's only one thing irreplaceable and priceless on earth...that is the love and care of your Filipina wife! :th_thsmilies-29057:

[abw]

Over the years I have had way too many Filipinos tell me that I am different from other whites and when it was said to me once, I did not know what to make of it but when it has been said to me time and time again, that gives me pause and I think many of us need to do the best we can to make up for some of the people who threat Filipinos poorly because that seems to be an overall perception of round eyes by many Filipinos who have probably been treated like dirt by some. IMO we need to bring about change and I think when the good treatments out number the bad then and only then will perception of round eyes change. I have watched so many round eyes yell, curse, call Filipinos stupid, act superior, and show total disrespect but claim that they are immersed in the culture yet do things that a Filipino would never do in public and I could go on and on but I think you all get the idea. We are all judged by the actions of the ass holes so it is very hard on those of us who are not ass holes and we need to do our best to change that perception one Filipino at a time, so we cannot fall into the negativity trap because it is quite easy to do that. Just because one Filipino tries to rip us off or treats us with disrespect does not mean they all will and we need to remember that just like Filipinos need to learn that we are not all alike.

Excellent post!This is interesting. I've had similar comments made about me from Filipinos, which is kind of sad, as there is a general perception that "Kanos" are loud and uncouth. The very first thing that every foreigner should understand or learn before going there, is raising your voice or confronting people will make life ten time harder! In the Philippines I've been pulled over by the police for driving indiscretions and gotten away with a simple warning (and no bribes), I've received favours without paying a centavo, and I've fired an employee, but still remained friends with that person. None of this is so hard, it's just simple matter of treating every individual (whether it be a clerk in a bank, a guard, anyone) with respect! Never raise your voice, no matter how frustrated you are! Never embarrass or insult someone! Try and smile And use a calming voice when you speak to someone!Well, that's my humble opinion Andrew

[Gold Heart]

Andrew,This is really good advise. Some people verbally abuse others and that is unacceptable. Avoiding raising ones voice however is not so easy to achieve as it sounds. Since I'm am married to a Filipina I've been dealing with this over 10 years -- long before moving here. Americans have learned, for me over 50 something years, to change the tone of voice for emphasis and it is spontaneous. It is hard to unlearn these things. I've been in a store with my wife in the US when she indicates she was embarrased because I raised my voice. I never said anything loud enough for anyone else to hear. I've leanred it is not just the volume but the tone. Except for heated arguments which are rare, I never yell at my wife. It is the subtlety of tone. It is also hard to learn not to complain. I was in Shakeys Pizza as that is where my family wanted to have lunch, and placing 3 different orders on the menu which came back 5 minutes after each to be told they were not available. This was at the beginning of the lunch hour. I was compelled to speak to the manager. This to me was the right thing to do -- to ensure they knew they had a disatisfied customer - food shortage, shipping blockades, more orders of that item than planned for the lunch hour, or strikes might be understandable. I could understand the seafood marinara but spagetti with meatballs? Then, because they did not have what I wanted, apparently they assumed that we did not want what my wife and son ordered. I had gone next door and got take-out from Greenwich while they waited. After waiting almost 30 minutes, I was completely done, I had to complain again and they rushed their orders to them. My complaints were done in the most courteous way I know how -- with no big scene or high volume. If I said nothing, their lunch would have never come. Most Filipinos never complain. You have to learn or unlearn what you have spent most of your life doing and it is easier said than done -- it is for me. It may be more damaging to keep things bottled up in side. It is easy to just say -- don't be annoyed by these things and adapt. But it is hard as they are annoying. I would say one just has to be conscience of this and make it a lifes work with hopeful progress over time.

Over the years I have had way too many Filipinos tell me that I am different from other whites and when it was said to me once, I did not know what to make of it but when it has been said to me time and time again, that gives me pause and I think many of us need to do the best we can to make up for some of the people who threat Filipinos poorly because that seems to be an overall perception of round eyes by many Filipinos who have probably been treated like dirt by some. IMO we need to bring about change and I think when the good treatments out number the bad then and only then will perception of round eyes change. I have watched so many round eyes yell, curse, call Filipinos stupid, act superior, and show total disrespect but claim that they are immersed in the culture yet do things that a Filipino would never do in public and I could go on and on but I think you all get the idea. We are all judged by the actions of the ass holes so it is very hard on those of us who are not ass holes and we need to do our best to change that perception one Filipino at a time, so we cannot fall into the negativity trap because it is quite easy to do that. Just because one Filipino tries to rip us off or treats us with disrespect does not mean they all will and we need to remember that just like Filipinos need to learn that we are not all alike.

Excellent post!This is interesting. I've had similar comments made about me from Filipinos, which is kind of sad, as there is a general perception that "Kanos" are loud and uncouth. The very first thing that every foreigner should understand or learn before going there, is raising your voice or confronting people will make life ten time harder! In the Philippines I've been pulled over by the police for driving indiscretions and gotten away with a simple warning (and no bribes), I've received favours without paying a centavo, and I've fired an employee, but still remained friends with that person. None of this is so hard, it's just simple matter of treating every individual (whether it be a clerk in a bank, a guard, anyone) with respect! Never raise your voice, no matter how frustrated you are! Never embarrass or insult someone! Try and smile And use a calming voice when you speak to someone!Well, that's my humble opinion Andrew

[Travis]

so I could live on ss alone