Forced incarceration’: American archivist responds to Las Piñas hospital amid passport issue

[scott h]

1 hour ago, Dave Hounddriver said:

As to the passport thing, most sane people would just report the passport as lost and get a new one.

What!!! And pass up on a perfect opportunity to play the victim?  Your idea just makes too much sense.

[GeoffH]

2 hours ago, Dave Hounddriver said:

I suspect not.  If I get a bill in Canada that I disagree with, I tell them:  "Sue me because I am not paying".  I do not incur the cost of suing them here in Canada and I would not do it in the Philippines either, but that's me.

Interesting, that is definitely not the case in Australia. 

There, if you choose not to pay an account, then the biller can get a judgement in court (and if you're not represented it will be uncontested and you won't get legal aid for civil suits). 

After the judgment in court letters of demand will be sent out, failure to pay those (which will by then include legal costs and fees) will generally lead to it being passed on to the 'Sherrifs department' who can (and definitely do) seize property and assets (which will be sold) in order to pay the debt. 

That will also be linked to listing on a register of 'bad debts' most times (which stays there for 5 years or so depending upon the local jurisdiction) and they can apply for bankruptcy if you fail to pay after a certain time.

There is a list of assets which are protected from that but it's not... 'extensive'.

 

The Philippines is of course different, and I'd definitely have handled things differently, but ignoring it and hoping it'll all go away doesn't seem to have worked for him 

[Joey G]

7 minutes ago, GeoffH said:

Interesting, that is definitely not the case in Australia. 

Nor in the USA... if you don't pay... it often goes to a bill collector who will hound you for years... FICO credit score goes down... loans (if possible) have higher rates.  

[Dave Hounddriver]

36 minutes ago, GeoffH said:

if you choose not to pay an account, then the biller can get a judgement in court (and if you're not represented it will be uncontested and you won't get legal aid for civil suits). 

Same in Canada.  THEY sue YOU and you go to court and get your say.  Or you let them get an uncontested judgement which is the definition of stupid as all you have to do is show up and the judge will probably side with you.

EDIT:  Most people don't know how it works.  Before I was a Hounddriver I was a loan collector so I saw it first hand.

Edited June 9, 2023 by Dave Hounddriver

[manofthecoldland]

5 hours ago, Dave Hounddriver said:

I suspect not.  If I get a bill in Canada that I disagree with, I tell them:  "Sue me because I am not paying".  I do not incur the cost of suing them here in Canada and I would not do it in the Philippines either, but that's me.

As to the passport thing, most sane people would just report the passport as lost and get a new one.  Once that was done, if I had money I would look into hiring a lawyer for malpractice, although I would not expect much to come of it in the Philippines.

If I even suspected the whole fiasco was going to become a nightmare I would just go to another country.  There are a lot of them to choose from.

Yes. He could have done all of that. Started a legal action, committed perjury by claiming that he 'lost' his passport, escaped to another country and abandon his stated passion for his old age hobby that was bringing him respect and honor.

But that's a very high cost and major disruption of his life, peace of mind, pocket book and a host of other baggage that comes with those courses of action.... all because he disputes a PORTION of his incurred medical billing.

There's something more at work here.

Maybe he wants some attention paid to his photo archival work and get his brief flash of fame/infamy. Maybe, like many other older men, he feels that his personal principles are at stake and will defend what he feels is a just cause, no matter the cost.... despite it being financially illogical and creating self-inflicting turmoil and anxiety.  I've seen it all the time during my lifetime, and I suspect most of you have also.  It seems to come with any deep cultural values we are imbued with while growing up. But it usually doesn't play well when you are using your home playbook in a foreign country and very different culture, as most successful expats, well know.

[mountainside]

5 hours ago, Dave Hounddriver said:

As to the passport thing, most sane people would just report the passport as lost and get a new one.

Maybe it's my own insanity, but I'd be hesitant to falsely claim my passport lost or stolen at the risk of spending up to ten years in federal prison. 

[hk blues]

20 minutes ago, mountainside said:

Maybe it's my own insanity, but I'd be hesitant to falsely claim my passport lost or stolen at the risk of spending up to ten years in federal prison. 

I'd tend to agree with you but I suppose he could play the "effectively stolen"  card as his passport is being held against his wishes which I assume is arguably illegal regardless of his willingness to hand it over as this would have been under duress.  

[Possum]

Though there is not enough information available to truly know how this guy got in this predicament the holding of the passport as ransom is just wrong on any level. They effectively made him an over stayer by doing so. It always amazed me Philippine hospitals could hold someone prisoner and rack up more charges prior to the more recent law. Even the medical collection agencies in the US have to go thru some legal hoops before they can start collection actions and they certainly don't demand to hold even your drivers license in the meantime.

[JJReyes]

The amount in contention is not large.  In the United States, you have charitable organizations with advocates who can represent you in conversations with a hospital about huge reductions and even debt forgiveness.  In the Philippines, indigent patients can request assistance from the Philippine Charity Sweepstakes Office since the proceed from the lottery can be used for this purpose.  As a foreigner, this path is not available.  I would therefore suggest something similar to a "Go Fund Me" if the US Embassy is unable to help.  

Many American living overseas don't know that there is an advocate with a high rank in US Embassies who can provide assistance.  They will contact your relatives and friends to raise the money to get you home.  Failing that, the US government will pay for your ticket and other expenses, but you have to sign a promissory note.  And your passport is confiscated until the debt is paid.

[mountainside]

12 hours ago, hk blues said:

12 hours ago, mountainside said:

Maybe it's my own insanity, but I'd be hesitant to falsely claim my passport lost or stolen at the risk of spending up to ten years in federal prison. 

I'd tend to agree with you but I suppose he could play the "effectively stolen"  card as his passport is being held against his wishes which I assume is arguably illegal regardless of his willingness to hand it over as this would have been under duress. 

Sad story, and I hope never to be hospitalized without the means to pay.  But as to the narrow issue of passport theft, I (personally) think that theft and attempted theft requires an intent to permanently deprive the rightful owner of the property.  Thus no passport theft here, since the hospital seeks to permanently deprive Mr. Tewell of the amount they say he owes, not his passport.  Thus under the circumstances reported, I couldn't in good faith report the passport as stolen.  I might well raise Cain, though.

As to the general subject of passports being held hostage, I've searched from time to time for instances in which embassies have pursued criminal charges against those (creditors, hotels, hospitals and cruise lines) whom their citizens claim have wrongly held their government-owned passports.  I haven't found one.