Abortion Is Illegal...

[Bruce]

OK Bruce thank you for writing a longer post than I usually write, it makes mine look much better. :lol:Well since I know you, lets us not forget the fact that you too had a vasectomy to prevent the problem before it happened. So this thread is not really about the right of wrong of having an abortion, it is about the fact that it is illegal in the Philippines to do so, so a vasectomy sure would be a much easier answer for anyone who does not wish to have children, and then on top of that, it will also help with the issue that most women in the Philippines will want children, so if one had a vasectomy and told his future prospects that he did not wish to have children, and that he cannot have them because he had a vasectomy, that might smooth over the groundwork for any man who does not wish to have children, and I say might because peer pressure among Filipinas is very high and my wife and I rarely meet a Filipina for more than ten words before she asks my wife how many children we have, so it would take a strong woman to deal with the onslaught of others who will continually make her feel bad that she does not have any children. Now with that said, there are many women who can deal with the issue and my wife is just one of many that we have met along the way and then there are some who cannot deal with the issue and go off the deep end.

A vasectomy in the Philippines! Now that is SCARY!.... Since it is acceptable for a DENTIST or even an American ball player with NO medical training to do a circumcision in the Philippines, I suppose there is no reason the local barber should be prohibited from doing a vasectomy.... RUN WILLIE RUN! Bruce

[Fast&Furious]

I am a true cat lover... no not to eat.... but there is an old saying about more than one way to skin a cat.........Unless corrected, I believe that I have more experience with 'abortions' than any one else on this forum. So let me make some clarifications here. Abortions have been a part of society since the start of mankind. Abortion is an answer to a problem, real or preceived. Abortions will continue to exist until such time as all mamals become 'sterile' and there needs to me be some action taken in order to allow conception. For example, there are now generic variations of certain types of wheat that produce seeds that will not germinate if planted, without a special fertilizer used. Basically the wheat is sterile unless an 'action' is taken by adding the special fertilizer. That change in mamals, maybe off several hundred years in the future, is the ONLY way to 100% stop unwanted pregnancies, which will make abortion a thing of the past. Until then, abortion is here to stay. Legal or otherwise. You can rant and rave, scream and hollar, kill or put in prison those performing abortions, but in the long run, those opposing abortion have minimal effect on the stopping of abortions. In the Philippines, while it is illegal to actually perform an 'abortion', it is not illegal to treat a woman from a spontaneous abortion / miscarriage.So, in all the local areas there are 3 level of abortion providers. For the basic poor / uneducated woman, she sees the local 'heilo' (spl??) which is a woman, with no training, who does 'massage' to relieve illnesses. The poorer the area, the more money these women make off the uneducated women in the area.... Remember that the uterus is basically a cul-de-sac looking organ with one way in and one way out. By applying steady massage, the uterus softens, by applying steady HARD pressure with a downward movement towards the vagina, sooner or later... the contents of the uterus can be FORCED out.... once this happens the pregnancy is either over or unsustainable. The woman then either heals up, or continues to bleed and then she can go to a hospital where the doc will not ask about any abortions, but will treat her for a miscarriage (not illegal) depending on how much money her family can come up with will help the outcome..... If the pregnant woman lives in a city area and has 'some money' she goes to a street clinic that does facials, body scrubs and abortions on request. Usually done by a woman who at one time worked for a doctor or a hospital where she saw women being treated for a miscarriage and then saw that there was money to be made so she went off on her own.... She just does what she saw a doc do (D&C) and if she is not too aggressive or rough, she can usually end up with a patient who does not die. The use of medications is either minimal or non existant, so that helps remove drug related complications..... Remember that up to about 1860, most surgery and dental work was done with out any medications.... If the pregnant woman has a lot of money she goes to her doc who sends her to an agreeable doc who diagnoses her with an incomplete AB / miscarriage and then treats her for it, documenting in a way as to not say anything about an elective abortion. If, after a bit of time and there is no inquiry and she has healed up 100%... then those records can disappear or be altered as to simple menstrual issues that require a D&C. The real problem is one of math. SImple math! 92,000,000 Pinoys exist now..... Poverty everywhere... limited jobs..... does anyone think that by adding MORE people to the population it will help in any way? Anyone? By 'doing the math', it is clear to see that the numbers do not lie. No country can sustain an exploding population growth and maintain an acceptable standard of living.I said earlier that abortion was an answer to a problem. Maybe not a good answer! But often the only answer available to a woman who can not support another child. I once had a Haitian patient who had 11 abortions. No big deal for her. It was the way she handled it because her husband refused to use a condom and she was not reliable enough to take proper precautions..... She can't even spell IUD, so don't waste your time. Remember that abortion is nothing but an answer to a problem. Don't attack or condem the answer, but instead use your resources to make a better' answer available to women! Just because 'your' pregnancy was not a 'problem' does not mean that other women feel the same way.....Also, in passing, I was offered a baby boy to adopt last year on one of my trips.... I declined, but I did check with my attorney friend back in the US who put me in touch with an adoption attorney. This adoption attorney was prepared to pay for the baby, mom and dad to fly to the US, all costs paid to meet and sign papers...... AND pay them any lost wages and birth costs (squatters) Up to about $20,000 USD. All legal and proper in the US. Well! I am doing a good thing here. I can put this baby in touch with people that will forever change his life and give him a shot and doing more with his life than being a pedi cab driver and dead in his 50's..... I then contacted an adoption attorney in Manila...... NO WAY NO HOW FORGET IT is what we were told. Philippine law would not allow this! So, just so you understand, and this has happened thousands of times under the guise to stop sex trafficing, this baby squatter boy who lives with mom and dad and 6 siblings in a 1 room nipa hut, will never go to school, never get an education or be able to get a job better than a pedi cab driver like his dad... AND! Say in 20 years if I am around and see him and tell him how the 'almost' won the lottery.... due to his squatter upbringing he won't be able to even grasp the significance of his loss. Bruce

WOW...I'm speechless.Thanks Bruce.

[Fast&Furious]

OK Bruce thank you for writing a longer post than I usually write, it makes mine look much better. :lol:Well since I know you, lets us not forget the fact that you too had a vasectomy to prevent the problem before it happened. So this thread is not really about the right of wrong of having an abortion, it is about the fact that it is illegal in the Philippines to do so, so a vasectomy sure would be a much easier answer for anyone who does not wish to have children, and then on top of that, it will also help with the issue that most women in the Philippines will want children, so if one had a vasectomy and told his future prospects that he did not wish to have children, and that he cannot have them because he had a vasectomy, that might smooth over the groundwork for any man who does not wish to have children, and I say might because peer pressure among Filipinas is very high and my wife and I rarely meet a Filipina for more than ten words before she asks my wife how many children we have, so it would take a strong woman to deal with the onslaught of others who will continually make her feel bad that she does not have any children. Now with that said, there are many women who can deal with the issue and my wife is just one of many that we have met along the way and then there are some who cannot deal with the issue and go off the deep end.

A vasectomy in the Philippines! Now that is SCARY!.... Since it is acceptable for a DENTIST or even an American ball player with NO medical training to do a circumcision in the Philippines, I suppose there is no reason the local barber should be prohibited from doing a vasectomy....RUN WILLIE RUN! Bruce

Me taking notes:no dentistno barber...no butcher as well I guess....:lol:

[Mr Lee]

OK Bruce thank you for writing a longer post than I usually write, it makes mine look much better. :lol:Well since I know you, lets us not forget the fact that you too had a vasectomy to prevent the problem before it happened. So this thread is not really about the right of wrong of having an abortion, it is about the fact that it is illegal in the Philippines to do so, so a vasectomy sure would be a much easier answer for anyone who does not wish to have children, and then on top of that, it will also help with the issue that most women in the Philippines will want children, so if one had a vasectomy and told his future prospects that he did not wish to have children, and that he cannot have them because he had a vasectomy, that might smooth over the groundwork for any man who does not wish to have children, and I say might because peer pressure among Filipinas is very high and my wife and I rarely meet a Filipina for more than ten words before she asks my wife how many children we have, so it would take a strong woman to deal with the onslaught of others who will continually make her feel bad that she does not have any children. Now with that said, there are many women who can deal with the issue and my wife is just one of many that we have met along the way and then there are some who cannot deal with the issue and go off the deep end.

A vasectomy in the Philippines! Now that is SCARY!.... Since it is acceptable for a DENTIST or even an American ball player with NO medical training to do a circumcision in the Philippines, I suppose there is no reason the local barber should be prohibited from doing a vasectomy.... RUN WILLIE RUN! Bruce

He lives in Australia, so walk baby walk about. :lol:

[Jake]

I am a true cat lover... no not to eat.... but there is an old saying about more than one way to skin a cat.........Unless corrected, I believe that I have more experience with 'abortions' than any one else on this forum. So let me make some clarifications here. Abortions have been a part of society since the start of mankind. Abortion is an answer to a problem, real or preceived. Abortions will continue to exist until such time as all mamals become 'sterile' and there needs to me be some action taken in order to allow conception. For example, there are now generic variations of certain types of wheat that produce seeds that will not germinate if planted, without a special fertilizer used. Basically the wheat is sterile unless an 'action' is taken by adding the special fertilizer. That change in mamals, maybe off several hundred years in the future, is the ONLY way to 100% stop unwanted pregnancies, which will make abortion a thing of the past. Until then, abortion is here to stay. Legal or otherwise. You can rant and rave, scream and hollar, kill or put in prison those performing abortions, but in the long run, those opposing abortion have minimal effect on the stopping of abortions. In the Philippines, while it is illegal to actually perform an 'abortion', it is not illegal to treat a woman from a spontaneous abortion / miscarriage.So, in all the local areas there are 3 level of abortion providers. For the basic poor / uneducated woman, she sees the local 'heilo' (spl??) which is a woman, with no training, who does 'massage' to relieve illnesses. The poorer the area, the more money these women make off the uneducated women in the area.... Remember that the uterus is basically a cul-de-sac looking organ with one way in and one way out. By applying steady massage, the uterus softens, by applying steady HARD pressure with a downward movement towards the vagina, sooner or later... the contents of the uterus can be FORCED out.... once this happens the pregnancy is either over or unsustainable. The woman then either heals up, or continues to bleed and then she can go to a hospital where the doc will not ask about any abortions, but will treat her for a miscarriage (not illegal) depending on how much money her family can come up with will help the outcome..... If the pregnant woman lives in a city area and has 'some money' she goes to a street clinic that does facials, body scrubs and abortions on request. Usually done by a woman who at one time worked for a doctor or a hospital where she saw women being treated for a miscarriage and then saw that there was money to be made so she went off on her own.... She just does what she saw a doc do (D&C) and if she is not too aggressive or rough, she can usually end up with a patient who does not die. The use of medications is either minimal or non existant, so that helps remove drug related complications..... Remember that up to about 1860, most surgery and dental work was done with out any medications.... If the pregnant woman has a lot of money she goes to her doc who sends her to an agreeable doc who diagnoses her with an incomplete AB / miscarriage and then treats her for it, documenting in a way as to not say anything about an elective abortion. If, after a bit of time and there is no inquiry and she has healed up 100%... then those records can disappear or be altered as to simple menstrual issues that require a D&C. The real problem is one of math. SImple math! 92,000,000 Pinoys exist now..... Poverty everywhere... limited jobs..... does anyone think that by adding MORE people to the population it will help in any way? Anyone? By 'doing the math', it is clear to see that the numbers do not lie. No country can sustain an exploding population growth and maintain an acceptable standard of living.I said earlier that abortion was an answer to a problem. Maybe not a good answer! But often the only answer available to a woman who can not support another child. I once had a Haitian patient who had 11 abortions. No big deal for her. It was the way she handled it because her husband refused to use a condom and she was not reliable enough to take proper precautions..... She can't even spell IUD, so don't waste your time. Remember that abortion is nothing but an answer to a problem. Don't attack or condem the answer, but instead use your resources to make a better' answer available to women! Just because 'your' pregnancy was not a 'problem' does not mean that other women feel the same way.....Also, in passing, I was offered a baby boy to adopt last year on one of my trips.... I declined, but I did check with my attorney friend back in the US who put me in touch with an adoption attorney. This adoption attorney was prepared to pay for the baby, mom and dad to fly to the US, all costs paid to meet and sign papers...... AND pay them any lost wages and birth costs (squatters) Up to about $20,000 USD. All legal and proper in the US. Well! I am doing a good thing here. I can put this baby in touch with people that will forever change his life and give him a shot and doing more with his life than being a pedi cab driver and dead in his 50's..... I then contacted an adoption attorney in Manila...... NO WAY NO HOW FORGET IT is what we were told. Philippine law would not allow this! So, just so you understand, and this has happened thousands of times under the guise to stop sex trafficing, this baby squatter boy who lives with mom and dad and 6 siblings in a 1 room nipa hut, will never go to school, never get an education or be able to get a job better than a pedi cab driver like his dad... AND! Say in 20 years if I am around and see him and tell him how the 'almost' won the lottery.... due to his squatter upbringing he won't be able to even grasp the significance of his loss. Bruce

WOW...I'm speechless.Thanks Bruce.

Dang, I agree! Your "boots on the ground" comments are profound. Notably, the three "level of abortion providers" in thePhilippines. I might add that Bruce is a registered RN, specialized in OBGYN. Well done sir -- Jake

[Dave Hounddriver]

Uhmm....now I'm wondering what's the rate of women who can't have children....Thanks

I can verify that they are available.Look for a girl who is drop dead gorgeous, hard working, loving, does not drink or smoke or go chatting on line. Loves her man and her family, (extended family only because she is an orphan). Washes your clothes by hand to save you money. Lots of other good things but she cannot have children.Then get her a couple of dogs to replace the children she cannot have and let a couple of nieces come visit once a month and its perfect. But that describes my wife and maybe she is one of a kind so I guess you are too late.

I am not sure if that was sarcasm or not....if it's not, you are very lucky, however I'd buy a washing machine...

Not sarcasm, and oddly enough she told me the same thing this week. Hmmm. After 4 years it is probably time to get her one. When I first met her I was so awestruck that she would wash all my clothes by hand. By now I have realized that all the local girls do it, but I have also noticed, from watching other foreigner/filipina couples, that getting a wash machine is one of the first steps on the road to keeping up with the Jones's, or acting 'high', or prideful, which all mean the same thing but I find it a bad quality.Just a note to say I relented and bought a wash machine today. Its all good. Edited May 31, 2011 by Dave Hounddriver

[ekimswish]

Uhmm....now I'm wondering what's the rate of women who can't have children....Thanks

I can verify that they are available.Look for a girl who is drop dead gorgeous, hard working, loving, does not drink or smoke or go chatting on line. Loves her man and her family, (extended family only because she is an orphan). Washes your clothes by hand to save you money. Lots of other good things but she cannot have children.Then get her a couple of dogs to replace the children she cannot have and let a couple of nieces come visit once a month and its perfect. But that describes my wife and maybe she is one of a kind so I guess you are too late.

I am not sure if that was sarcasm or not....if it's not, you are very lucky, however I'd buy a washing machine...

Not sarcasm, and oddly enough she told me the same thing this week. Hmmm. After 4 years it is probably time to get her one. When I first met her I was so awestruck that she would wash all my clothes by hand. By now I have realized that all the local girls do it, but I have also noticed, from watching other foreigner/filipina couples, that getting a wash machine is one of the first steps on the road to keeping up with the Jones's, or acting 'high', or prideful, which all mean the same thing but I find it a bad quality.

Our washing machine in Korea broke down for a few weeks and I had to wash all the clothes by hand in that time. My wife had down it a few times but was pushing me to fix the machine and I was worried how much it'd cost, so I took over. That is a very hard job. Wow.... We shipped our washing machine to the Philippines for $100 and used it as an extra box, putting things inside, and even underneath it in the space back there.

[Jollygoodfellow]

Before we go off on 4 pages of washing machine advice; can we save that for another topic and stick with what ever it is that this topic is about.

[Fatcat]

That's one of the reasons I find the Philippines attrractive.

[Jollygoodfellow]

That's one of the reasons I find the Philippines attrractive.

Because of their washing machines? Maybe I will have to re read this old thread. :)