First World Philippines

[Methersgate]

 

 

 

Would you say it's the quality of education only or the massive "brain drain" that is the issue with quality workers? I myself think it's a matter of both but I was wondering how you and other see it... 

 

I think there are a huge number of very well qualified and intelligent workers abroad  that are where they are despite, not because of the education system. I have worked with and befriended some really smart, driven professionals from the Philippines that are truly globally competitive. A good friend from Switzerland grew up in really poor circumstances where his father often couldn't even afford to pay his lunch money for school. It seems certainly true that the brightest have long left the Philippines to have global careers. 

 

As a matter of fact my impression of Filipinos before and after actually visiting the Philippines has completely reversed, because I simply naively assumed that the ones I've met all over the world are representative of the country... if only that were true. 

 

They don't hate their country but as long as the Philippines doesn't create a legal and investment climate that encourages them to return it won't happen. Of course we can bemoan the lacking quality of local workers but they have a huge pool of expats that could return when the time is right. But just like Thailand the country is in the stranglehold of a local elite that has no incentive to invite competition into the country, because that would expose their mediocrity. 

 

I've just had the pleasure of having as a house guest for three days a professional yacht skipper in the Med, a friend of K's taking a course at Gosport (visa no problem for this young lady of 29 - she has a career to go back to!) who exemplifies this. She is the daughter of a couple who run a bakery in Olongapo - scholarship to local Catholic school, business degree and one day she was taken sailing by a kano boyfriend - and found her vocation. She is extremely good at it. Interestingly she remarks that Greece is considerably worse than the Philippines as regards entrenched elites, corruption and the abuse of office. Positive about the Philippines but realistic. Told me that fear and dislike of foreigners is actually taught in the schools where children are all told that all foreigners are in the country to steal it.

 

[i am bob]

The $ hasn't dropped by 25%. The US $ has risen against other world currencies.

 

The Canadian $ has dropped against the peso.  The peso seems to be pegged to the US $.  It makes life harder for us Canadians but there is a market for bumper stickers in Canada that say:  Dear God let there be another oil boom.  I promise I won't piss all the profits away this time.

 

Even recently when the C $ was worth $1.05 US, you still got more pesos for the US $ than for the C $. I thought maybe because of the volume of the exchanges.

I asked my bank in Canada about that... Got the old blank stare in reply... :D

[Jollygoodfellow]

if the PI is really serious about becoming a 1st world country it would be a good idea to get a 1st or maybe even a 2nd  world education system, because the system they have here now is oh, rubbish

 

This is being addressed in some ways with the K to 12 program but it will be 2016-17 before it is completed.

 

http://www.gov.ph/k-12/#about

[jpbago]

 

if the PI is really serious about becoming a 1st world country it would be a good idea to get a 1st or maybe even a 2nd  world education system, because the system they have here now is oh, rubbish

 

This is being addressed in some ways with the K to 12 program but it will be 2016-17 before it is completed.

 

http://www.gov.ph/k-12/#about

 

 

PI has to change some of the courses, delete some irrelevant ones and add others. Today, my daughter, in 2nd year Med Tech went all the way up to Victorias (3 to 4 hour round trip) for a Recollection Day at a extra cost of 800p where they sit in a church and recollect. It is mandatory as Religion makes up 4 units. 2nd year college is the same as Grade 12.

[Thomas]

 

if the PI is really serious about becoming a 1st world country it would be a good idea to get a 1st or maybe even a 2nd  world education system, because the system they have here now is oh, rubbish

 

This is being addressed in some ways with the K to 12 program but it will be 2016-17 before it is completed.

 

http://www.gov.ph/k-12/#about

Good they add 2 years

but not much worth if the teaching will go on being bad in SOME important subjects...

 

Compare: Mathematics. In Phils they study important percentage counting at UNIVERCITY MASTER Business education level,

which are learned in last year in ELEMENTARY school in Sweden...

[Midniterider]

 

 

 

 

 

Over the course of many years I have noticed the Philippines progressing, and yet, every couple of years I go back to Canada and notice that country progressing at double the rate that the Philippines is progressing.  Anecdotal evidence to be sure but you would have a hard time convincing me that the Philippines can catch up to anybody at that rate.

Dave, I agree with you to an extent... But when we have several Canadian senators looking at jail time for outright fraud on their expense accounts, our Prime Minister and the supposed next PM battling it out over what Muslim women wear on their heads, unemployment figures which don't include the thousands who have given to on trying to actively find work through the "official" channels, and a $ that has dropped in value by 25% in less than a year, are we in Canada any different than the Philippines?

 

 

Apparently insults and innuendo are thrown about here quite freely I suppose because this is the section to freely elucidate pretty much anything about anyone but I don't appreciate the attitude that precludes some spread of actual knowledge that may wind up helping someone as opposed to just having an agenda to impress their partner. So this is the last time I will address some inaccuracies spouted since this is actually a relevant and important issue undeserving of chest beating and who has the biggest one LOL. Regarding the economic indicators you can make what you wish out of them, I'm sure some people are educated enough to understand what I'm referring to. Again I'm not trying to impress anyone and I don't have an agenda except to show cause and effect and how important TB can be in the Philippines, and even other pneumonic diseases such as pneumonia and COPD.

 

http://www.theunion.org/what-we-do/publications/english/pub_indoor-air-pollution_eng.pdf

 

"Indoor air pollution resulting from the use of solid fuels for cooking and heating in homes is increasingly recognised as contributing to lung diseases, especially in the poorest countries."

 

http://www.theunion.org/what-we-do/publications/english/pub_indoor-air-pollution_eng.pdf

 

"Indoor air pollution (IAP) from biomass fuels is clearly linked to acute respiratory infections (ARI) and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), and there is evidence of links to tuberculosis and lung cancer." (...)  "This makes IAP the second most important environmental risk factor after water, sanitation, and hygiene (WHO, 2002)."

 

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/19390450903350861

 

"Some 1.2 billion people live without any access to electricity, often using wood, animal waste and charcoal for cooking and heating. 

 Smoke from these fires produces indoor pollution which causes 4.3 million premature deaths annually, most of them among women and children who spend more time around the fires in the home, she said. 

Pneumonia cases among children could be reduced by 50 percent if they stopped breathing polluted air at home, she said. 

Indoor pollution from these fires result in more deaths of women and children annually than HIV/AIDS, malaria, tuberculosis and malnutrition combined, said Lakshmi Puri, deputy executive director of UN Women."

 

http://www.trust.org/item/20140606071128-yaewr/

 

"Exposure to smoke from fuelwood stoves is high for women and children. Chimney systems are often absent or of very poor design."

 

http://www.reap-canada.com/online_library/IntDev/id_mts/3%20Enhancing%20Household.PDF

 

So where do those mysterious bacteriogical TB infections come from ? Most commonly they arise from patients with pneumonia. I mean your simple dismissal of the etiological causes of TB seems to imply that simply a lowering of your immune system's resistence to bacteriological infections is the CAUSE of this magical transmission out of the blue from somewhere in the atmosphere. Well there has to be a host reservoir somewhere doesn't there ?

 

"Tuberculosis is primarily caused by a bacterium (Mycobacterium tuberculosis). The majority of cases are pulmonary, but in about 15 percent of cases, the bacteria disseminate to other areas of the body and are classified as nonpulmonary tuberculosis. Transmission is mainly airborne, through the inhalation of bacteria-carrying droplets produced by individuals with active pulmonary tuberculosis. Less commonly, infection may occur through skin wounds, such as those associated with injecting drug use." 

 

Mycobacteriums are obligate aerobes that grow mostly in tissues with a high oxygen content, such as the lungs. They've been around 70,000 years it seems. There is also an animal strain but it's generally not considered a zoonotic threat. 

 

http://www.infectioncontroltoday.com/news/2013/09/origins-of-mycobacterium-tuberculosis-discovered.aspx

 

"In addition to the signs and symptoms of tuberculosis, women in the 2008 NDHS were asked what they thought were the causes of tuberculosis. Table 13.3 shows for women who have heard of tuberculosis, the percentage who cited specific causes for the infection by background characteristics. Smoking (59 percent), drinking alcohol (44 percent), microbes/germs/bacteria (23 percent), inherited (23 percent), and fatigue (22 percent) emerged as the top-ranking causes of tuberculosis identified by the women. Five percent of women said they did not know any causes of tuberculosis. It must be noted that the correct answer—microbes, germs, or bacteria—was cited by only 23 percent of women." {ed note this is not to put down women or imply that they are the primary victims of TB, they are not, men are but this is just a source that gives an indication of the general populace's perception of causation}

 

 And what then as I've shown are some primary causes of such pneumonia (which can be both viral and bateriological if you weren't aware) ? There is a common causal thread and I've been educated on the etiological causes by a respiratory specialist who treats me and just happens to be a Fellow of Pulmonary Medicine here in the Philippines. Since I never stated that all physicans are shamans that also is libelous and I since do have the capability to discuss medical issues on an advanced level in conversation due to my own medical training I will ignore that accusation as innocuous. However I will not give any more medical information or assistance after being shut down by such narrow mindedness. 

 

http://www.who.int/indoorair/info/briefing2.pdf

 

"Acute respiratory infection (ARI) is a leading cause of childhood morbidity and mortality throughout the world. Early diagnosis and treatment with antibiotics can reduce the number of deaths caused by ARI, particularly deaths from pneumonia." (...) " Children whose mothers smoke and those whose households use wood or straw as a cooking fuel also are more likely to have had ARI symptoms."

 

http://dhsprogram.com/pubs/pdf/FR224/FR224.pdf

 

Yes TB in and of itself is not caused simply by cooking fires, IT'S CAUSED BY THE POOR VENTILATION that CAUSES THE PNEUMONIA that give rise to the growth of the Mycobacterium variety of the disease. CAUSE + EFFECT=DISEASE. URIs that go untreated turn into pneumonia which gives rise to the TB which has the common too late diagnosis here and becomes life threatening. Another way simply stated: POOR VENTILATION of COOKING FIRES ===> URI+PNEUMONIA ====>TB. The poor ventilation occurs both in the crowded conditions common in Manila as well as in "dirt poor" rural communities living in wood shacks which are even more common than Nipa huts unfortunately, at least from what I've seen in my travels. 

 

"As of July 2014, 130 countries had reported mortality data to WHO (including data from sample VR systems and mortality surveys), among 219 countries and territories from which TB data had been requested at least once since 1990. These 130 countries included 9 of the 22 high TB burden countries (HBCs): Brazil, China, India, the Philippines, the Russian Federation, South Africa, Thailand, Viet Nam and Zimbabwe."

 

http://www.who.int/tb/publications/global_report/gtbr14_online_technical_appendix.pdf?ua=1

 

http://www.who.int/tb/publications/global_report/gtbr14_annex2_country_profiles.pdf?ua=1

 

http://gamapserver.who.int/mapLibrary/Files/Maps/Global_TBincidence_2013.png

 

So the next time you go out for karaoke-and I just know you'll have fun with this one-ensure that your partners do not include active untreated TB patients ! 

PS I'm not hiding, for in that other thread where we both posted I mentioned where I worked before and in other places i've indicated where I live. But you're not a person I'd ever like to meet just for the record, you make me work too hard & I'm supposed to be retired. 

[i am bob]

 

 

if the PI is really serious about becoming a 1st world country it would be a good idea to get a 1st or maybe even a 2nd  world education system, because the system they have here now is oh, rubbish

 

This is being addressed in some ways with the K to 12 program but it will be 2016-17 before it is completed.

 

http://www.gov.ph/k-12/#about

Good they add 2 years

but not much worth if the teaching will go on being bad in SOME important subjects...

 

Compare: Mathematics. In Phils they study important percentage counting at UNIVERCITY MASTER Business education level,

which are learned in last year in ELEMENTARY school in Sweden...

 

 

Funny! I was looking at a 3rd grader's test results about a month aog (his mom is the caretaker where I live) and they were doing basic percentages then.  

 

:rolleyes:

[jpbago]

Funny! I was looking at a 3rd grader's test results about a month aog (his mom is the caretaker where I live) and they were doing basic percentages then.

 

© Provided by The Philippine Star

The Philippines is the only country in the ASEAN region that still has only ten years of basic education for its students. In fact, aside from a few African countries, we are the only country in the world that maintains that ten years is sufficient for basic education.

Here is the total number of years of basic and pre-university education in the ASEAN countries: Brunei: 15 years; Cambodia 13 years; Indonesia: 13 years;  Laos: 13 years; Malaysia: 13/14 years; Myanmar: 12 years; PHILIPPINES; 10 YEARS; Singapore: 12 to 14 years; Thailand: 12 years; Timor: 12 years; Vietnam: 14/15 years.

One of the observations of many employers is that our public high school graduates are not qualified even for the most basic jobs. That is why we find that even messengers, retail clerks and technicians are often required to have a college or university degree. These are positions that high school graduates should be qualified to assume. That is why another goal of the K to 12 program is to “broaden the goals of high school education for college preparation, vocational and technical career opportunities as well as creative sports, sports and entrepreneurial employment in a rapidly changing and increasingly globalized environment.”

[i am bob]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Over the course of many years I have noticed the Philippines progressing, and yet, every couple of years I go back to Canada and notice that country progressing at double the rate that the Philippines is progressing.  Anecdotal evidence to be sure but you would have a hard time convincing me that the Philippines can catch up to anybody at that rate.

Dave, I agree with you to an extent... But when we have several Canadian senators looking at jail time for outright fraud on their expense accounts, our Prime Minister and the supposed next PM battling it out over what Muslim women wear on their heads, unemployment figures which don't include the thousands who have given to on trying to actively find work through the "official" channels, and a $ that has dropped in value by 25% in less than a year, are we in Canada any different than the Philippines?

 

 

Apparently insults and innuendo are thrown about here quite freely I suppose because this is the section to freely elucidate pretty much anything about anyone but I don't appreciate the attitude that precludes some spread of actual knowledge that may wind up helping someone as opposed to just having an agenda to impress their partner. So this is the last time I will address some inaccuracies spouted since this is actually a relevant and important issue undeserving of chest beating and who has the biggest one LOL. Regarding the economic indicators you can make what you wish out of them, I'm sure some people are educated enough to understand what I'm referring to. Again I'm not trying to impress anyone and I don't have an agenda except to show cause and effect and how important TB can be in the Philippines, and even other pneumonic diseases such as pneumonia and COPD.

 

http://www.theunion.org/what-we-do/publications/english/pub_indoor-air-pollution_eng.pdf

 

"Indoor air pollution resulting from the use of solid fuels for cooking and heating in homes is increasingly recognised as contributing to lung diseases, especially in the poorest countries."

 

http://www.theunion.org/what-we-do/publications/english/pub_indoor-air-pollution_eng.pdf

 

"Indoor air pollution (IAP) from biomass fuels is clearly linked to acute respiratory infections (ARI) and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), and there is evidence of links to tuberculosis and lung cancer." (...)  "This makes IAP the second most important environmental risk factor after water, sanitation, and hygiene (WHO, 2002)."

 

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/19390450903350861

 

"Some 1.2 billion people live without any access to electricity, often using wood, animal waste and charcoal for cooking and heating. 

 Smoke from these fires produces indoor pollution which causes 4.3 million premature deaths annually, most of them among women and children who spend more time around the fires in the home, she said. 

Pneumonia cases among children could be reduced by 50 percent if they stopped breathing polluted air at home, she said. 

Indoor pollution from these fires result in more deaths of women and children annually than HIV/AIDS, malaria, tuberculosis and malnutrition combined, said Lakshmi Puri, deputy executive director of UN Women."

 

http://www.trust.org/item/20140606071128-yaewr/

 

"Exposure to smoke from fuelwood stoves is high for women and children. Chimney systems are often absent or of very poor design."

 

http://www.reap-canada.com/online_library/IntDev/id_mts/3%20Enhancing%20Household.PDF

 

So where do those mysterious bacteriogical TB infections come from ? Most commonly they arise from patients with pneumonia. I mean your simple dismissal of the etiological causes of TB seems to imply that simply a lowering of your immune system's resistence to bacteriological infections is the CAUSE of this magical transmission out of the blue from somewhere in the atmosphere. Well there has to be a host reservoir somewhere doesn't there ?

 

"Tuberculosis is primarily caused by a bacterium (Mycobacterium tuberculosis). The majority of cases are pulmonary, but in about 15 percent of cases, the bacteria disseminate to other areas of the body and are classified as nonpulmonary tuberculosis. Transmission is mainly airborne, through the inhalation of bacteria-carrying droplets produced by individuals with active pulmonary tuberculosis. Less commonly, infection may occur through skin wounds, such as those associated with injecting drug use." 

 

Mycobacteriums are obligate aerobes that grow mostly in tissues with a high oxygen content, such as the lungs. They've been around 70,000 years it seems. There is also an animal strain but it's generally not considered a zoonotic threat. 

 

http://www.infectioncontroltoday.com/news/2013/09/origins-of-mycobacterium-tuberculosis-discovered.aspx

 

"In addition to the signs and symptoms of tuberculosis, women in the 2008 NDHS were asked what they thought were the causes of tuberculosis. Table 13.3 shows for women who have heard of tuberculosis, the percentage who cited specific causes for the infection by background characteristics. Smoking (59 percent), drinking alcohol (44 percent), microbes/germs/bacteria (23 percent), inherited (23 percent), and fatigue (22 percent) emerged as the top-ranking causes of tuberculosis identified by the women. Five percent of women said they did not know any causes of tuberculosis. It must be noted that the correct answer—microbes, germs, or bacteria—was cited by only 23 percent of women." {ed note this is not to put down women or imply that they are the primary victims of TB, they are not, men are but this is just a source that gives an indication of the general populace's perception of causation}

 

 And what then as I've shown are some primary causes of such pneumonia (which can be both viral and bateriological if you weren't aware) ? There is a common causal thread and I've been educated on the etiological causes by a respiratory specialist who treats me and just happens to be a Fellow of Pulmonary Medicine here in the Philippines. Since I never stated that all physicans are shamans that also is libelous and I since do have the capability to discuss medical issues on an advanced level in conversation due to my own medical training I will ignore that accusation as innocuous. However I will not give any more medical information or assistance after being shut down by such narrow mindedness. 

 

http://www.who.int/indoorair/info/briefing2.pdf

 

"Acute respiratory infection (ARI) is a leading cause of childhood morbidity and mortality throughout the world. Early diagnosis and treatment with antibiotics can reduce the number of deaths caused by ARI, particularly deaths from pneumonia." (...) " Children whose mothers smoke and those whose households use wood or straw as a cooking fuel also are more likely to have had ARI symptoms."

 

http://dhsprogram.com/pubs/pdf/FR224/FR224.pdf

 

Yes TB in and of itself is not caused simply by cooking fires, IT'S CAUSED BY THE POOR VENTILATION that CAUSES THE PNEUMONIA that give rise to the growth of the Mycobacterium variety of the disease. CAUSE + EFFECT=DISEASE. URIs that go untreated turn into pneumonia which gives rise to the TB which has the common too late diagnosis here and becomes life threatening. Another way simply stated: POOR VENTILATION of COOKING FIRES ===> URI+PNEUMONIA ====>TB. The poor ventilation occurs both in the crowded conditions common in Manila as well as in "dirt poor" rural communities living in wood shacks which are even more common than Nipa huts unfortunately, at least from what I've seen in my travels. 

 

"As of July 2014, 130 countries had reported mortality data to WHO (including data from sample VR systems and mortality surveys), among 219 countries and territories from which TB data had been requested at least once since 1990. These 130 countries included 9 of the 22 high TB burden countries (HBCs): Brazil, China, India, the Philippines, the Russian Federation, South Africa, Thailand, Viet Nam and Zimbabwe."

 

http://www.who.int/tb/publications/global_report/gtbr14_online_technical_appendix.pdf?ua=1

 

http://www.who.int/tb/publications/global_report/gtbr14_annex2_country_profiles.pdf?ua=1

 

http://gamapserver.who.int/mapLibrary/Files/Maps/Global_TBincidence_2013.png

 

So the next time you go out for karaoke-and I just know you'll have fun with this one-ensure that your partners do not include active untreated TB patients ! 

PS I'm not hiding, for in that other thread where we both posted I mentioned where I worked before and in other places i've indicated where I live. But you're not a person I'd ever like to meet just for the record, you make me work too hard & I'm supposed to be retired. Thank

 

Thank you for providing the information that proves my point throughout this entire conversation.

 

For a person to develop TB, a person must first be exposed to the TB bacteria through another person who has the bacteria in their body.  Once a person is infected with the TB bacteria, weakening their immune system may induce TB to develop in this person.  Extensive exposure to cooking fires is just one of the many things may weaken a person's body.  BUT if a person has not been exposed to the TB bacteria, they will never develop TB - cooking fires or not!

 

You have a wonderful day and enjoy your retirement here in this beautiful and friendly country!

[i am bob]

 

Funny! I was looking at a 3rd grader's test results about a month aog (his mom is the caretaker where I live) and they were doing basic percentages then.

 

© Provided by The Philippine Star

The Philippines is the only country in the ASEAN region that still has only ten years of basic education for its students. In fact, aside from a few African countries, we are the only country in the world that maintains that ten years is sufficient for basic education.

Here is the total number of years of basic and pre-university education in the ASEAN countries: Brunei: 15 years; Cambodia 13 years; Indonesia: 13 years;  Laos: 13 years; Malaysia: 13/14 years; Myanmar: 12 years; PHILIPPINES; 10 YEARS; Singapore: 12 to 14 years; Thailand: 12 years; Timor: 12 years; Vietnam: 14/15 years.

One of the observations of many employers is that our public high school graduates are not qualified even for the most basic jobs. That is why we find that even messengers, retail clerks and technicians are often required to have a college or university degree. These are positions that high school graduates should be qualified to assume. That is why another goal of the K to 12 program is to “broaden the goals of high school education for college preparation, vocational and technical career opportunities as well as creative sports, sports and entrepreneurial employment in a rapidly changing and increasingly globalized environment.”

 

 

I agree that the current/former program is not sufficient and that is in the process of being changed.

 

When was the article you quoted written? I imagine that it is fairly current as it talks a bit of the changes to the curriculum.