First World Philippines

[Thomas]

c

 

 

I keep up with Philippines news

 

Philippine news is written by the middle class and up and it is only for the middle class and up.  The vast majority are not taught to stand up for themselves or for what is right.  Those lessons are taught in every 1st world school and nothing will change here until the local majority believe it can change.  Such is my opinion

 

 

Dave, the news I talk about are not just Philippine papers. They are from around the world, business news or websites.

Yes. In rather many cases it's a BIG difference between the truth and what the Philippine politicians, media, church and school tell :bash:

so it's some funny when NOT living in Phils, but can tell Filipinos important things about Phils   :mocking:

Given the abundance of cheap labor, there will continue to be business opportunities. The question is, will the corrupt/inept government and poor infrastructure make it worth it as a destination for startups or established businesses outside of a few well-developed areas like Makati?

With the right government and intelligent investment laws and incentives the Phils could profit from a catch up effect for a while. But this requires infrastructure and an investment climate conducive for foreign manufacturers to relocate part of their production to the Philippines rather than Vietnam, Cambodia, Indonesia or elsewhere. Only with more employment and solid professional training and experience can the Philippines slowly move up the economic ladder to somewhere close to Thailand in the next 10 years. For anything more than that I just don't see the basics in place in terms of culture and education. 

Yes.

I suppouse the Phil politicians have missed to get MANY jobs to Phils  by:

/huge corruption making business much UNNECESARY risky

/crazy many steps needed to start business

/stupid laws restricting foreigners to own more than 40 % of a many types of compamies, while the investment will still need to be 100 % to be started... 

[Thomas]

I agree that this is an interesting and important question for anyone settled in, or thinking of settling in, the Philippines.

 

One of the biggest questions is nicely set out in this Wikipedia entry:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Philippines

 

The birth rate is falling, but the rate of population increase is still very high. What these figires actually mean is that the population will have doubled, to 200 million by 2050. This will cause a few problems.

 

My impression is that most available farmland is already being farmed, intensively, with high inputs of fertilizers, pesticides and herbicides, and that there are few resources available for further irrigation. The Philippines is not self sufficient in food.

Well. SOME farmland are farmed with HIGH fertilizer and such,

BUT MANY small farmers get very bad harvests by they DON'T AFFORD things as fertilizer and high yield seeds/plants.

(One family I know of lost their mango orchard by some crock had fooled them they better spray their mango threes to get EXTRA harvests.  That's true in SHORT view, but in some more years view it's TERRIBLE. The trees get exhausted, so they don't even manage to get LEAVES, even less fruits, and when have started spraying ONCE, the threes DON'T GET NATURAL harvest no more, so the farmers have to pay the sprayers EVERY time to get ANY harvest  :1 (72):     And to get spraying is EXPENSIVE   = a worker's MONTH salary to spray only 5 mango trees.  So they couldn't afford spraying, so they didn't get any harvest, so they lost their orchard...

 

 

It's an ongoing/recently done irrigigation program e g in Bohol trying to make that region feting big rice harvests to try to make Phils producing enough rice themselves.

 

Some reputable economic journals have boiled down economic growth to requiring investment in two areas - infrastructure and education.Put money (effectively) into those two things and you will start to see benefits.

Well. Many - in our home countries too - believe education will solve WORK PROBLEM,

but it can only be solved by adding profitable BUSINESSES, which add JOBS.

Well. They can EXPORT worker surplus to other countries, but that just MOVE the problem...

 

A critical Filipino entrepreneaur with knowledge about Phil education tell they educate WORKERS, NOT entrepreneaurs.  I believe that's true, because I have talked to SEVERAL Filipino BUSINESS OWNERS, who DON'T understanding even several SIMPLEST basic business things...

 

 

Great topic JGF....anything that gets for pages of responses in 24 is a good one. :thumbsup:

 

Will the Philippines become to expensive with the rising number of middle class with more disposable income to spend upping prices?

 

I don't see it happening. The larger the middle class, yes the more luxury goods at higher prices. If you want them? You'll have to pay for them. For the basics? I believe they will still be within reach. Examples: I first came here in 1996, haircut was 40 pesos, my barber now charges 50, but then he moved into a larger, better air conditioned shop and can charge more, still lots of places charge 40. Jeepney fares was 7 pesos now its 8. Prices in the wet market are still very low, and fluctuate with the seasons. Tapsilog was 55 pesos a serving now 60. So I believe that folks will still be able to live well on pensions. 

If you can live the Filipino way, there might not be a problem. But how many of us foreigners can eat rice and fish or tapsilog every day? A decent meal, the way we are used to it costs way more then in our home countries. For example, i love dairy products but yoghurt costs 3 to 4 times what it costs in Belgium, and it's not exactly a cheap country. Milk double or more, orange juice double, vegetables double or triple (and they are grown here, not imported). Everything that seems to be healthy is extremely expensive. That's what I hear a lot of expats complaining about.

Well. I don't know about such prices in Belgium, but I know prices in Sweden are much higher than at the European continent.

And I know prices in Manila and some in Cebu city too are much higher than in provinces.

 

It's corect milk is expensive in Phils, perhaps deoending of much more Asians than North Europeans are lactos intollerant   :)   Similar with fruits, which don't suit any good to grow in Phils

But e g brown rice - white rice is NOT healthy   :)     - cost around 25p/kg if buying a sack from the farmer in province,

up to 100p/kg for single kg in Lapu-Lapu, Metro Cebu

and 150p/kg for single kg in Sweden.

The province prices of mango I don't rememver for sure (15 p/ KG = 5p/ piece? from farmers)

but I'm sure it isn't 53p/ PIECE as it is now in Sweden when it's special offer BARGIN price...   :)

I suppouse it's similar for vegs suiting to grow in Phils.

[John Michael Kane]

I suppouse the Phil politicians have missed to get MANY jobs to Phils  by: /huge corruption making business much UNNECESARY risky /crazy many steps needed to start business /stupid laws restricting foreigners to own more than 40 % of a many types of compamies, while the investment will still need to be 100 % to be started... 

 

Haven't directly dealt with corruption in the process of starting the business. Perhaps that is part of the benefit of being a really small startup, we're so small we fly under the radar? :D *crosses fingers*

 

The 40% rule is provincial and needs to go. There's simply not enough investment capital or business management expertise from what I can tell in the Philippines to have a turn-around on a massive scale from within the country. They need outside help badly. The 40% rule is bad for Filipinos and foreign investors alike. Missed opportunities everywhere!

 

Also, there is no formalized government office that can help a foreign investor consider investing in the country, or a business that wants to start up, transfer to or otherwise get operations going within the country. Why the government isn't open to formalizing the simplifying the process is beyond me.

[Midniterider]

 

 

 

Over the course of many years I have noticed the Philippines progressing, and yet, every couple of years I go back to Canada and notice that country progressing at double the rate that the Philippines is progressing.  Anecdotal evidence to be sure but you would have a hard time convincing me that the Philippines can catch up to anybody at that rate.

Dave, I agree with you to an extent... But when we have several Canadian senators looking at jail time for outright fraud on their expense accounts, our Prime Minister and the supposed next PM battling it out over what Muslim women wear on their heads, unemployment figures which don't include the thousands who have given to on trying to actively find work through the "official" channels, and a $ that has dropped in value by 25% in less than a year, are we in Canada any different than the Philippines?

Oh, my gawd but that was funny!!! You were trying to be humorous, weren't you?

Midwives are shamons? Did you know that NYC has midwives? Oh,the horror!

PhilHealth is useless and not affordable? The government gives it for free to those who can't afford the quarterly payments! And I think perhaps you should look again at what is covered!

We get TB from cooking fires? Cancel the BBQ!

Philippine unemployment jumped from 7 to 50%! That's what you posted yesterday...

There is nothing to export... Let's just give all that mineral and gas rich West Philippines Sea to China then... Never mind the rest of the country... Or even anything that's manufactured here.. Or...

Shopkeepers make a whole P300 a month.. Is this 1922?

How long had it been since you've been to the Philippines? Read anything current? Or are you just more concerned on bashing ?

I recognized you as a booster while you stated that you weren't a flamer but that has turned out not to be entirely true now. Where did I EQUATE midwives with shamans ? Didn't you know that shamans are a regular p/o the culture ? Philhealth is incomplete and the 40% is the generally accepted average when there is a regular discussion of it's pros and cons. Yes cooking fires with charcoal under crowded conditions is the prime etiological agent for developing TB as per the national health authorities and you may want to survey the United Nations World Health Organization initiatives in this field if you're REALLY concerned with learning something. Yes when you don't count women as being part of the workforce isn't that roughly half of any population ? I'm not a statistician sorry you'll have to pay for that service.

 

The supposed oil and mineral reserves in that area are not confirmed by any means and fighting over piles of rocks is just delaying the inevitable. But that is not even the real issue that China is concerned about and most people miss the real point about the conflict. The U.S. is basically the guardian of all crude oil product passing through and out of the Gulf region INCLUDING China's share and no one wants THAT to suddenly collapse and then have to take on the expense of protecting it themselves. China is becoming one of the worlds major consumers of petroleum and their main concern is strategic: they want to protect that stream of Gulf oil that continues on it's way towards their ports and don't expect the 7th Fleet to be everywhere at once. They may be paranoid about that and act very much the bully concerning the area of interest surrounding the piles of rocks in question that is certainly also true. The ability to "over fish" the richly productive places to harvest fish is also an Asian "thing" no matter what the human or animal cost which seems to be fairly unique to me although I'm not an expert on the fishing industry either.

 

  One can not export what one doesn't produce or can't you understand that relatively simple fact ? Name a product that constitutes even 25% of the GDP. I didn't research it maybe you can do some of the heavy lifting ? Even the rich families who own most of the Philippines have just recently realized that they'll have to finally develop some of the infrastructure to even get some industrialization jump started and finally attract some foreign investment as well. That's sensible but is it a case of too little too late ? 

 

  Pardon my statistical errors those occur when I don't quote the source (it happens) although I doubt you even read any of the references I DID quote since anything older than 2014 seems not to be an empirical source in your view. So be it and will preclude any real discussion. Ok $300 USD a month is what I was thinking although the program I just watched LOCALLY was quoting 400 so I forgot that is was a BBC program and may have been discussing currency figures on their own terms. 

 

  When and where I have been in the Philippines is not your concern and that is a very invasive remark. I have been snowbirding for years and yes have been here for over a year continuously but I fail to see what business that is of yours. Especially when I notice that when you're online there is an hour difference ahead of where I am in the Cebu metropolitan area. Palau ? 

[Midniterider]

Oh, never I mind I found it straightaway. Now these are for EXPORT comparisons mind you not internal consumption. I knew that semiconductors were the main export product but NOT that everything else paled in comparison and was so puny. 

 

http://www.nscb.gov.ph/sna/2014/4th2014/tables/4EOG_93SNA_Q4.pdf

 

And what caused the dramatic drop in ADP and office equipment ? Not good news, perhaps it's that when China catches a cold economically, the ASEAN countries get the flu ? No idea really though. 

 

Agricultural product is mainly only coconut oil (large Korean investment of course I've seen of the husks)

 

Oil and mining ? Need a microscope to find those. There appears to be potential in restarting the mining industry after it's basically been halted for being so environmentally unfriendly, but petroleum is still undeveloped and that platform that was looted so heavily in the pork barrel scandal does not bode well for the industry I would imagine. 

 

We all -or we all should - know that single export product economies are very vulnerable to many internal and external forces and only through diversification is found real economic strength. 

 

"Growth has accelerated under the AQUINO government, but with limited progress thus far in bringing down unemployment, which hovers around 7%, and improving the quality of jobs. Underemployment is nearly 20% and more than 40% of the employed are estimated to be working in the informal sector."

 

http://www.theodora.com/wfbcurrent/philippines/philippines_economy.html

Edited March 13, 2015 by Midniterider

[Dave Hounddriver]

40% of the employed are estimated to be working in the informal sector."

 

Are you saying that 40% of the governments 'employed' figures are just guestimates on the number of people 'probably' working under the table?

[jpbago]

I'm stuck doing this on my phone at the moment... Very difficult to cut and paste..

 

What happened to your two laptops? In another post you said that you could not click the Like button because you were using your phone. Are you in the country hills now?

[i am bob]

 

 

 

 

Over the course of many years I have noticed the Philippines progressing, and yet, every couple of years I go back to Canada and notice that country progressing at double the rate that the Philippines is progressing.  Anecdotal evidence to be sure but you would have a hard time convincing me that the Philippines can catch up to anybody at that rate.

Dave, I agree with you to an extent... But when we have several Canadian senators looking at jail time for outright fraud on their expense accounts, our Prime Minister and the supposed next PM battling it out over what Muslim women wear on their heads, unemployment figures which don't include the thousands who have given to on trying to actively find work through the "official" channels, and a $ that has dropped in value by 25% in less than a year, are we in Canada any different than the Philippines?

Oh, my gawd but that was funny!!! You were trying to be humorous, weren't you?

Midwives are shamons? Did you know that NYC has midwives? Oh,the horror!

PhilHealth is useless and not affordable? The government gives it for free to those who can't afford the quarterly payments! And I think perhaps you should look again at what is covered!

We get TB from cooking fires? Cancel the BBQ!

Philippine unemployment jumped from 7 to 50%! That's what you posted yesterday...

There is nothing to export... Let's just give all that mineral and gas rich West Philippines Sea to China then... Never mind the rest of the country... Or even anything that's manufactured here.. Or...

Shopkeepers make a whole P300 a month.. Is this 1922?

How long had it been since you've been to the Philippines? Read anything current? Or are you just more concerned on bashing ?

I recognized you as a booster while you stated that you weren't a flamer but that has turned out not to be entirely true now. Where did I EQUATE midwives with shamans ? Didn't you know that shamans are a regular p/o the culture ? Philhealth is incomplete and the 40% is the generally accepted average when there is a regular discussion of it's pros and cons. Yes cooking fires with charcoal under crowded conditions is the prime etiological agent for developing TB as per the national health authorities and you may want to survey the United Nations World Health Organization initiatives in this field if you're REALLY concerned with learning something. Yes when you don't count women as being part of the workforce isn't that roughly half of any population ? I'm not a statistician sorry you'll have to pay for that service.

 

The supposed oil and mineral reserves in that area are not confirmed by any means and fighting over piles of rocks is just delaying the inevitable. But that is not even the real issue that China is concerned about and most people miss the real point about the conflict. The U.S. is basically the guardian of all crude oil product passing through and out of the Gulf region INCLUDING China's share and no one wants THAT to suddenly collapse and then have to take on the expense of protecting it themselves. China is becoming one of the worlds major consumers of petroleum and their main concern is strategic: they want to protect that stream of Gulf oil that continues on it's way towards their ports and don't expect the 7th Fleet to be everywhere at once. They may be paranoid about that and act very much the bully concerning the area of interest surrounding the piles of rocks in question that is certainly also true. The ability to "over fish" the richly productive places to harvest fish is also an Asian "thing" no matter what the human or animal cost which seems to be fairly unique to me although I'm not an expert on the fishing industry either.

 

  One can not export what one doesn't produce or can't you understand that relatively simple fact ? Name a product that constitutes even 25% of the GDP. I didn't research it maybe you can do some of the heavy lifting ? Even the rich families who own most of the Philippines have just recently realized that they'll have to finally develop some of the infrastructure to even get some industrialization jump started and finally attract some foreign investment as well. That's sensible but is it a case of too little too late ? 

 

  Pardon my statistical errors those occur when I don't quote the source (it happens) although I doubt you even read any of the references I DID quote since anything older than 2014 seems not to be an empirical source in your view. So be it and will preclude any real discussion. Ok $300 USD a month is what I was thinking although the program I just watched LOCALLY was quoting 400 so I forgot that is was a BBC program and may have been discussing currency figures on their own terms. 

 

  When and where I have been in the Philippines is not your concern and that is a very invasive remark. I have been snowbirding for years and yes have been here for over a year continuously but I fail to see what business that is of yours. Especially when I notice that when you're online there is an hour difference ahead of where I am in the Cebu metropolitan area. Palau ? 

 

Let me first apologize...  True, you did not call midwives shamans.  My error.  You called all the doctors in the Philippines shamans.  Interesting. PhilHealth has been upgrading since 2013 what is covered, by how much, and also adding in new coverage.  This is an ongoing project and will be continuing on for the next year or two. Of course, if you get sick here and the shamans find some way to miraculous cure you, you are free to ask for only 40% coverage on your PhilHealth if you so desire. TB is a bacterial infection that is spread by people infected with TB expelling the bacteria into an area that others may ingest the bacteria. Cough, sneeze, even just breathing can do it. Cooking fires can weaken the immune system but so can smoking or any other air pollution.  And to that we can add other biological issues that may weaken the immune system.  Still, cooking fires do not cause TB. Moving on... Where did you decide that the Philippines don't count women as part of the work force?  Before you decide to quote again and cut out your remarks already made (as you did above), let me drop in your words...  And I quote," Yes when you don't count women as being part of the workforce isn't that roughly half of any population ?"  Okaaayyyy....  Gee, quoting remarks is fun!  You said, and once again I quote,"The supposed oil and mineral reserves in that area are not confirmed by any means" .  There are multiple answers to this but they all point to the simple fact that once again, you are spouting garbage.  By the way, I'm glad to see that you are proud of the American 7th Fleet as being the sole defender of the West Philippine Sea.  Were you navy?  Oh, I'm sorry...  Personal question...  You don't like that, do you...  Incidentally, if you look at my avatar on the left, you will see that I live in Davao.  I don't hide like a coward.  I see you changed yours...  Congratulations.  Oh, yes, by the way, nice job of cutting out your previous post when you quoted me above.  You boldly stated that the average shop clerk in the Philippines made P300 to P400 a month...  Not dollars as you are now stating, you said and I quote again, "400 PHP a month (a shop clerk here makes 300 a month so why leave to be abused in a foreign land?)."  I"ll accept $ if you can tell me whose $ you are referring to...  Canadian? American? Australian?  That makes a really big difference again on what that shop clerk will make...  I"m not going to bother with the rest of your post...  It just isn't worth it.  I mean, if the best facts and figures you come up with are from over 10 years ago, hell...  There's been a few changes around here since then.

 

You think I'm flaming you but, really, I'm not.  I am disputing what you wrote as being the truth.  Unfortunately, nothing you wrote rings true today.  In another post on a different subject, I may stand up and say Great Job but not with this one...  

 

I'm stuck doing this on my phone at the moment... Very difficult to cut and paste..

 

What happened to your two laptops? In another post you said that you could not click the Like button because you were using your phone. Are you in the country hills now?

 

 

I was sitting on the side of a mountain at the time...   :mocking:

[afathertobe]

 

 

Around 15-20 years ago I predicted the "western" countries are "doomed" in the long run, because the countries can't live of producing services for the OWN citizens and send almost all production to low salary countries, mainly in South East Asia. 

 

So you were pretty wrong then by your own admission, seeing that the Western countries are richer than ever? Salaries are a meaningless way to measure a country's (lack of) competitiveness, it's productivity that matters. Industrialised Western countries like Germany or Switzerland are producing and exporting more than ever, despite the really high salaries. But the workers are well-trained, self-driven and highly specialised. Anyone who's ever worked in an "intelligent" industry knows that 1 qualified worker cannot be replaced by 5 unqualified workers. 

 

Unless Asian countries really boost their education system and productivity (like S.Korea, Taiwan, Japan, Singapore) their lower salaries won't automatically translate into economic growth, as the Philippines knows all too well. Only a combination of infrastructure, education, investment laws and political stability allows a country to reap the benefits of low wages (as Cambodia is currently doing, though even there textile workers are protesting violently for higher salaries)

Edited March 13, 2015 by afathertobe

[Midniterider]

 

40% of the employed are estimated to be working in the informal sector."

 

Are you saying that 40% of the governments 'employed' figures are just guestimates on the number of people 'probably' working under the table?

 

Unknown. Ask the CIA they're the source I imagine they have some paid professionals able to answer that specifically.