POOR? just what is Poor especially here in the PI

[Benington]

5 minutes ago, Dave Hounddriver said:

Here is the 2015 population from Luzon province:

Population	53,336,134

That's about half the population of Philippines, so its natural that half the OFWs would come from there.

https://psa.gov.ph/content/2015-survey-overseas-filipinos-0

Not a particularly relevant issue for the main Philippines Poverty picture.

But as it has been picked on I don't see it as natural that OFWs would be proportional to the population. As I said most of those from Luzon are from Manila and around...if you do the calculation for the NCR plus Calabarzon for 2015 it is over-proportional.

To put remittances in proportion they were only just over 1% of GDP in 2015.

[jpbago]

1 hour ago, Dave Hounddriver said:

You forgot to mention all the brand spanking new motorcycles and cars on the roads.  Lots of people here have money.  Where the get it from is debatable, as in there are many sources besides jobs.

Many of those vehicles are financed to the max and paid by minimum payments, including trikes. Look online at any of the banks repo list.

I stand around watching at the market while my wife does the shopping. I see the Bombay 5/6s go from stall to stall everyday collecting the daily minimum payments, even from doctors, dentists and police. Lots of dedt here.

The STL (Small Town Lottery) is active in my area and I see sellers everywhere all day long for the 3 daily draws. Some that can't buy rice a kilo at a time, still have 10 php for each draw.

Some of the traffic could be reduced if things were managed better ie: There are 2 police colleges south of Bacolod and every student needs to get their NBI so every student (Maybe 800) has to go to Bacolod to get it. It would be more efficient if 2 NBI agent went to each college instead. Al the med techs in Bacolod have to go to Manila or Cebu to write their board exams. There are police living in Iloilo that have to go to Bacolod everyday to work and vice versa. They could be working in their own city instead of commuting.

[Dave Hounddriver]

33 minutes ago, Benington said:

To put remittances in proportion they were only just over 1% of GDP in 2015.

The Economist says:

Quote

Gross domestic product (GDP) is increasingly a poor measure of prosperity. It is not even a reliable gauge of production

https://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21697845-gross-domestic-product-gdp-increasingly-poor-measure-prosperity-it-not-even

The argument is supposed to be:  Just what is poor, especially here in PI.

The statements I see in your posts suggest that half the OFWs come from half the population (not surprising) and they only contribute just over 1% or an unreliable measure of prosperity (according to the economist). 

I am not dazzled by brilliance here but I am surely baffled by you posts which go against the accepted wisdom that is espoused in articles such as this one (it is not a recent article but the concept still persists).  In the article it states: 

Quote

the billions of pesos worth of liquidity injected into the economy from the foreign-currency earnings of our OFWs is still one of the main pillars of economic growth

http://www.manilatimes.net/still-a-remittance-economy/212607/

[Benington]

DH, I won't lengthen the page with your post, readers can just refer up...yes, for years economists have been trying to find better measures of a country's prosperity, but with all it's faults GDP is still the accepted measure, especially for international comparisons.

Sure, remittances here from the OFWs and the much larger Filipino diaspora (estimated at over 10m) contribute to the growth of the economy.

But just read down that Manila Times article......they say that they do not help poverty reduction! Remittances have been important for growth for years, but poverty here is still a massive problem...in the ASEAN comparison it's only Laos and Myanmar doing worse.

http://blogs.worldbank.org/developmenttalk/international-poverty-line-has-just-been-raised-190-day-global-poverty-basically-unchanged-how-even

Only up to 2012, but it says that poverty levels have been slowly increasing, and that its a mostly "an overwhelmingly rural phenomenon", more progress has been made with urban poverty, and the Visayas and Mindanao are the worst regions.. Despite the recent good growth I don't think the picture is much different now,

OFWs are seen as national heroes and the government looks after them, but I hear development experts and even some politicians now coming out to say that this country's large OFW exodus may not be so good for the economy in the long run.

 

 

[Dave Hounddriver]

7 minutes ago, Benington said:

But just read down that Manila Times article......they say that they do not help poverty reduction

Are you sure?  I read and I quote:

Quote

 

Economic growth in this administration has not translated into employment opportunities and poverty reduction.

OFW remittances still provide the growth that matters most in the lives of Filipinos. 

 

Methinks you take all the info IN and spout out only that which you think agrees with your point of view.  Or is there another quote in the article that does not say OFW remittances are the growth that matters most?

[Benington]

Isn't this thread about poverty? And if you care to look at my link you'll see that OFW remittances have not translated into its reduction for years. That's the World Bank "spouting".

[Dave Hounddriver]

14 minutes ago, Benington said:

Isn't this thread about poverty?

We agree.  And judging by the lack of "likes" or comments, none of the other members care about our little argument so I shall post a funny little picture instead.

[scott h]

But just what is poverty? The lack of an iPhone? No Air conditioner or cable tv?  Only being able to eat rice three times a day with an occasional fish thrown in?

I live in the Metro Manila, where supposedly the nations poor flock to. On my walk today I paid particular notice to those around me. I didn't see any kids with ribs showing nor any with distended belly's. I did see folks who live in ramshackle, thrown together shelters though, they all looked well fed.

On our street there is  couple who live in an alley, all their possessions are on a kart which they move around. They earn their living helping drivers do U turns, collecting plastic bottles and such. They are always smiling and saying hello.

In a country where food literally grows on trees what is poverty? Do those with less money live up to western standards, not on your life. But where is it written that everyone in the world is entitled to dental care, BBQ spare ribs, bangers and mash and Netflix? 

Do the majority of people here have less than I do? You BET! And as soon as I see a line of Mercedes and BMW's leaving Bonifacio Global City, Green hills and Ayala Alabang heading to Tondo and Smokey mountain loaded with food and other supplies, that's when I will be concerned with the poverty problem here.

Who just took my soap box away???? 

[Jack Peterson]

27 minutes ago, scott h said:

as soon as I see a line of Mercedes and BMW's leaving Bonifacio Global City, Green hills and Ayala Alabang heading to Tondo and Smokey mountain loaded with food and other supplies, that's when I will be concerned with the poverty problem here.

Who just took my soap box away???? 

 That my friend is exactly what brought this Topic Up, it is happening more often than we realize, As to the Soap Box, at times it IS needed but falls on the wrong ears methinks 

[Benington]

Poverty is relative, but I think everybody would agree that P100 a day is about as low as you can go here, and over 20m are estimated to be down there. I would have thought P200 would be pretty dire too.

Poverty is more a rural than urban problem, a small proportion migrate to the cities and obviously fare better, partly because government poverty reduction programs are better there.

Food does "grow on trees", but what if you don't have enough land, or any land? Hunger rates here follow the poverty rate, with over 3m families experiencing some hunger last year. Again mostly affecting the rural areas.

The Philippine economy is at present growing probably as fast as it can. New cars are everywhere. Poverty is out of the sight and out of the minds of most in the middle and upper classes. And lawmakers.  And yes, probably of most Expats too. A haircut from P50. Cheap trolley loads of local products. We love to see our savings and pensions stretch.