POOR? just what is Poor especially here in the PI

[Benington]

1 hour ago, scott h said:

It might help Ben if you give us Your definition of "extreme poverty" it might help to refine the discussion. Not the description of some ivory tower fuzzy eared academic lololol.

Extreme poverty to me is those areas of the world where drought, famine and water born diseases run rampant. These are in my opinion brought on by over population, which is a self inflicted problem.

FYI, episodes of drought and famine,are treated as different from poverty, which is a long term concept. It can be absolute, where the most basic needs are not being met or relative eg maybe someone without their own transport in the US.

I would say the World Bank's International Poverty Line, which I have referred to earlier in this topic, at $1.90 a day is definitely an absolute poverty level or very close to it for the Philippines. Maybe "extreme" wasn't a good choice as there are so many people included.

Poverty is an academic concept. My explanation not too academic for you?

If you want to discuss this further you'd better just PM me, as you obviously can't help mixing up insults with ignorance, as shown by your use of the OBE. It's an award in Britain, but here it's your One Big Explanation. Yes, over population is a cause of drought and famine..so are climate change, war and agricultural policy failures.

 

[Mr-T]

On September 4, 2017 at 3:34 PM, Benington said:

https://psa.gov.ph/content/2015-survey-overseas-filipinos-0

Not a particularly relevant issue for the main Philippines Poverty picture.

But as it has been picked on I don't see it as natural that OFWs would be proportional to the population. As I said most of those from Luzon are from Manila and around...if you do the calculation for the NCR plus Calabarzon for 2015 it is over-proportional.

To put remittances in proportion they were only just over 1% of GDP in 2015.

No i do not think so. Where i live in far north Luzon almost everyone have a relative working abroad. Many sea men. I can remember when i first got here in 2000 there was hardly a car on the road. now the whole area is congested with autos, bikes etc. Many cry poverty but they have bank accounts. Save every peso and will not even buy the necessary foods they need. Wife sister is a typical example. I am sure this woman have millions in the bank but cry poverty every day.

[mogo51]

On 9/4/2017 at 0:24 PM, Dave Hounddriver said:

You forgot to mention all the brand spanking new motorcycles and cars on the roads.  Lots of people here have money.  Where the get it from is debatable, as in there are many sources besides jobs.

Examples:  Any pretty filipina with a pretty face can go online and seduce US$1,000 a month or more from foreign guys.  Lots of people have OFW relatives sending money.  Lots of jobs have "under the table money" that goes with them.  In spite of the hard line approach to drugs there is still a lot of drug money out there, its just more discretely done now.

There are still poor people here, but only because they are not smart, or pretty, or well connected.

What do you base your judgement of drug distribution on Dave?  I had 8 years in Thailand and had no idea of what happened other than  'hearsay' which I give no credence to.  I make sure I keep well distanced from this shady side of town.

The same here, would have no idea what happens after dark, as I rarely go out.  I doubt I would be a target for a drug seller, nor you for that matter.

.

[Dave Hounddriver]

23 minutes ago, mogo51 said:

What do you base your judgement of drug distribution on Dave?

'hearsay', accompanied by unaccounted for large sums of money.  If I did know where to get some I would be foolish to say. 

[sonjack2847]

I was talking to somebody who is not connected to this forum and he said exactly the same as the first post which is really are they poor.

[MikeB]

7 hours ago, Benington said:

Yes, over population is a cause of drought and famine..so are climate change, war and agricultural policy failures.

 

While the population of the Philippines has steadily increased (as almost everywhere) the year to year rate of population growth has steadily decreased. The problem isn't overpopulation per se, it's that the poorest segment - which can least afford them, are having so many children. Attempts at education and family planning are twisted and thwarted by the ruling religion. My best friend, Filipino, gave me good advice the first time I visited in 2002. "Have fun, enjoy the good and forget about the bad. You can't change it, it's always been like that and always will be".

[robert k]

I'm not convinced the government of the Philippines knows the population within 30%. I'm not convinced the USG knows the population within 10%.

[Old55]

14 hours ago, Benington said:

FYI, episodes of drought and famine,are treated as different from poverty, which is a long term concept. It can be absolute, where the most basic needs are not being met or relative eg maybe someone without their own transport in the US.

I would say the World Bank's International Poverty Line, which I have referred to earlier in this topic, at $1.90 a day is definitely an absolute poverty level or very close to it for the Philippines. Maybe "extreme" wasn't a good choice as there are so many people included.

Poverty is an academic concept. My explanation not too academic for you?

If you want to discuss this further you'd better just PM me, as you obviously can't help mixing up insults with ignorance, as shown by your use of the OBE. It's an award in Britain, but here it's your One Big Explanation. Yes, over population is a cause of drought and famine..so are climate change, war and agricultural policy failures.

 

Insulting members is not allowed please review forum rules. You have been warned.

[scott h]

16 hours ago, Benington said:

can't help mixing up insults with ignorance

Whoa, slow down. Never mind, I am out of this discussion. 

[Benington]

11 hours ago, Mr-T said:

No i do not think so. Where i live in far north Luzon almost everyone have a relative working abroad. Many sea men. I can remember when i first got here in 2000 there was hardly a car on the road. now the whole area is congested with autos, bikes etc. Many cry poverty but they have bank accounts. Save every peso and will not even buy the necessary foods they need. Wife sister is a typical example. I am sure this woman have millions in the bank but cry poverty every day.

Interesting to read your observations from Cagayan. Your local economy is doing particularly well from OFW remittances, and across the country there are probably other areas also showing a dramatic economic improvement due to OFWs. You mention the seamen... the Philippines has developed that as a brand respected worldwide....25% of the total on the seas.

People "cry poverty" when they have money in the bank. One can only speculate why. Maybe they don't want others to know as they will be asked for "loans", or they know that those remittances may not always be coming.

Without the OFW option your area would mainly offer only low paid employment in agriculture. In the Philippines as a whole there is a high unemployment rate, with also much disguised unemployment. Low wages are on offer for the bulk of the workforce. The current non agriculture daily minimum wage in Manila is under P500.This situation is recognised by the government with their help for the "extreme poor" and for OFWs. A third of OFWs are coming from the low paid sector helpfully categorised as "elementary occupations", nearly a fifth are from the generally low paid service sector. Professionals, managers and teachers only make up 17%, in contrast to 1st world overseas workers where they are a much higher percentage.

Without the monetary inflows from OFWs and relatives abroad the Philippine economy could not sustain its present growth rate. School fees are paid, small businesses started etc. But it is government policy to reduce dependence on OFW remittances...."jobs at home" is the slogan. They can see that depending on jobs abroad is risky, that OFWs can be subject to bad treatment, that workers often end up being "deskilled" and therefore not able to bring back higher skills to the Philippines and that the absence of one or both parents can cause family breakdown...even increased drug use, according to the President. Also, running services for OFWs is expensive.

And what does it do for the long term development of the economy when some of the best teachers and nurses are going abroad, often for good? Or female college graduates are maiding abroad?

Unfortunately the Philippines got on this economic track in the Marcos time, when an opportunity was missed to develop a broader based industrialised economy, alongside agriculture. Overseas employment quickly started to fill the gap.

Despite its recently much touted record economic growth the Philippines has about half the GDP per head of Thailand, who have successfully developed an export led industrialised economy. Vietnam will probably soon overtake the Philippines on GDP per head. Policies to improve the situation will take years to work, and labour exports are not the answer. If they were the Philippines would not now be in this position.