Ponzi schemes shut down.

[Mike J]

2 hours ago, Old55 said:

I remember this taking place and the one individual who was primping it the most. You’re right Dave they all were totally convinced of the soundness of those rural banks.

I believe that individual then went on from rural banks to pitch non-existent motorcycle franchises.   You didn't actually get a franchise or motorcycles, instead your money to others who would open the franchise.  WHAT???  That one was shut down fairly quickly and I think he then tried to make and sell sausages?   I wonder whatever happened to him?  

[hk blues]

8 hours ago, Dave Hounddriver said:

It is done on the stock market every single day.

Initial public offering (IPO) or stock market launch is a type of public offering in which shares of a company are sold to institutional investors and usually also retail (individual) investors

I'm not sure the two are comparable - for one, stock prices are based on some form of performance criteria rather than just a cash distribution system

[Dave Hounddriver]

1 hour ago, hk blues said:

for one, stock prices are based on some form of performance criteria

I assume you have never heard of BreX (linked)

It is my opinion that people who are truly unbiased will find foreigners just as gullible as Filipinos, both here and in their own countries.  But that is just based on my own opinions and observations.

Indeed, the US crash of 2008 was based on a Ponzi scheme of sorts. People borrowed more than they could pay back, expecting to sell to people who would also borrow more than they could pay back and everyone gets rich until the bubble bursts.  Of course, it was more complicated but that is the basic problem.  Here is the link.

[hk blues]

12 minutes ago, Dave Hounddriver said:

I assume you have never heard of BreX (linked)

It is my opinion that people who are truly unbiased will find foreigners just as gullible as Filipinos, both here and in their own countries.  But that is just based on my own opinions and observations.

Indeed, the US crash of 2008 was based on a Ponzi scheme of sorts. People borrowed more than they could pay back, expecting to sell to people who would also borrow more than they could pay back and everyone gets rich until the bubble bursts.  Of course, it was more complicated but that is the basic problem.  Here is the link.

One example doesn't make me doubt the general validity of stock prices being based on reasonable criteria.

Agreed that being gullible isn't down to nationality, plenty of gullible non-Filipinos but this topic is related to schemes here in the Philippines so I guess that's why we're talking about Filipinos. 

I think you're over-simplifying the 2008 Financial Crisis by likening it to a Ponzi Scheme to be honest.  It was way more complicated than that;  deregulation in the finance sector leading to low-interest mortgages which became toxic as  supply of housing outstripping demand being the basic cause.  I think you're missing the main point in that a Ponzi scheme is based on an investment in a non-existent product - the mortgages in the US were very much real.  

[Dave Hounddriver]

7 minutes ago, hk blues said:

I think you're missing the main point in that a Ponzi scheme is based on an investment in a non-existent product

We can agree to disagree.  Let's be friends because I have a bridge I am trying to sell.  Don't worry, it is an existing bridge ( Joke)

As far as 2008 is concerned.  Here is a link to List of Ponzi schemes.  Read down to the 2008 part that starts off:  "On December 10, 2008, Bernard Madoff,"  There are lots of references to 2008 if you are interested, but it is better we agree to disagree rather than arguing about it.

 

[Jollygoodfellow]

10 hours ago, Mike J said:

I wonder whatever happened to him?  

Last I know is he was living in China.

[virginprune]

There has been many disparaging comments on this thread about local peoples supposed greed and stupidity. I would like to put in my own observations based on what I have witnessed first hand in South Mindanao. The kapa scheme has been a godsend for many people in this region. For those that have signed up to it, it has given them funds to put not just food on the table but has helped with medical bills and such like. 

No members on here have so far expressed the true experience of why it has gone belly up now. This has come about because of a personal feud between two 'pastors'. Pastor Quiboloi has lost some of his flock to Pastor Apolinario who has tried to financially help the poorest of his followers. Whereas the aforementioned Pastor Q only gets his followers to give him everything they own for only prayers in return. In a poor persons shoes who would you look too for comfort in this life.

Pastor Q obviously has the ear of important people, with many followers that is a very relevant voting base. Pastor A has 5m plus followers, that is an even bigger potential voting base. Any politician should be wise enough to realise this.

Disclaimer: Myself, my partner and her extended family have not invested/donated into kapa. We would also never recommend any of these schemes to anybody.

[Snowy79]

I'd need to see the true figures for those KAPA investors who managed to make money.  Where there's a winner I'd hazard a guess there's a few more losers. I'm sure they'll be keen to roll out the winners to draw in more losers. 

[hk blues]

33 minutes ago, Snowy79 said:

I'd need to see the true figures for those KAPA investors who managed to make money.  Where there's a winner I'd hazard a guess there's a few more losers. I'm sure they'll be keen to roll out the winners to draw in more losers. 

Aren't all such schemes a zero sum game i.e. every penny won by A is lost by B? 

[Mike J]

15 hours ago, hk blues said:

Aren't all such schemes a zero sum game i.e. every penny won by A is lost by B? 

The losers far outweigh the winners.  The originators of the scheme are the ones who skim off most of the money.  They only pay back enough to keep the scheme alive.  The ultimate goal is to keep the investors so convinced of the scheme that will actually roll any "profits" right back into the scheme.  While new investors bring money in the front door, the originators of the scheme are shoveling it out the back.   In a ponzi scheme the "A" winners are the guy who started the scheme and have the ability to syphon off the incoming funds.