Are You Age Biased Regarding Covid Measures?

[OnMyWay]

I think the vast majority of members here are upwards of 50 years old.  A high % are probably 60+.  I'm 64.  Crap!  How did that happen?  My "early retirement" years started at 56 and are done!

When the Covid-19 "Pandemic" started, we didn't know much.  It quickly got sorted out that the vast majority of deaths were elderly and/or people who were already sick with one or more comorbidities.  In some cases, poor choices by leaders led to increased deaths of the elderly.  I have three comorbidities; overweight, HBP and some asthma.  Also arthritis, but not sure if that counts.  It might count down below.  Like most humans, I fear for my life when there is a possible threat to it.  In the beginning, I noticed that many were fearful.  As time passed, and restrictions eased, I noticed that many here relaxed a bit, and I didn't notice the same level of fear.  For some, like me, I was / am totally burnt out on the restrictions, to the point of, let's go back to living and let the cards fall where they may.

I don't want to get sick with anything.  Never have.  In the old days, when I was single and younger and healthier, I never paid much attention to avoiding flu and colds.  From the age of 27 to 37, I never missed a day of work.  I would just work sick.  After our family started, I paid a lot more attention.  It is super hard to avoid passing a flu or cold around the house, when one person starts it.  But I try and encourages the others too.  With the Covid scare, I am very careful when I go out and stay away from people.

For me, this Covid scare has had a positive impact, despite all the negatives.  I had a "Come to Jesus" moment in late May.  I didn't want to be a victim and I knew that my physical condition might be a huge issue if I caught the Covid flu.  I also know that I want to be around as long as possible for my kids, and in relatively good health.  I knew that a key piece of all my ailments was being overweight, and I decided to lose it.  I have lost 40 lbs and feel so much better!  Carrying extra weight stresses all of your systems.  I'm determined to lose at least another 40 lbs.  At that weight I think my body will be much more capable of fighting disease.

In my opinion, with the rearview mirror perspective, the terrible impacts of lockdowns on society far outweigh the benefits to society.  Most of us, being older and retired, or semi-retired, don't feel the most terrible impacts.  Loss of business, loss of job, loss of schooling, loss of life (suicide, avoidance / postponement of healthcare, etc.) and others, have taken a terrible toll on society that is not widely analyzed or publicized as much as it should be.  I would venture that most of that avoidance is due to politics.

Back to the original topic, are your opinions of Covid-19 prevention measures biased by your older age?  If you were in the shoes of a 35 year old small business owner with a family to feed, would you think differently than you do now?  Let's speculate that Covid changes the average age of mortality by negative 1-3 years, for a period of a year or two, without lockdowns.  With lockdowns and closure of businesses, say only 1 year difference. So, would you be willing to sacrifice 1-2 years of your last years of life in order to benefit the majority of society?  How about if you personally know the small business owner?  Maybe the small business owner is your son or daughter, and your grandkids.  Does that change anything?

Again, with hindsight, it certainly does for me.  After seeing the devastating impact of lockdowns on the whole world, never again, as far as I'm concerned.  Masks, distancing, handwashing and maybe some business modifications is the maximum I would go for.  If a couple of years are shaved off the average lifespan for a year or two, so be it.

Even in that situation, you can avoid being a victim of any type of disease by keeping yourself in good health.  Stop smoking.  Lose weight.  Exercise.  Healthy people are less likely to succumb to diseases like Covid.  That is what I am trying to do.  Reminds me of the old joke about two guys in the woods who encounter a bear.  You don’t have to run faster than the bear to get away. You just have to run faster than the guy next to you!  Change "bear" to "Covid" and outrun the unhealthy people!

 

[Dave Hounddriver]

1 hour ago, OnMyWay said:

In my opinion, with the rearview mirror perspective, the terrible impacts of lockdowns on society far outweigh the benefits to society

Yes.  In hindsight.  However no-one was sure what we were dealing with back then.  We saw media fueled hysteria of hospitals overflowing and ever increasing death rates.  We, the average people, could not be sure if this was an extinction event or a bad flu.  As it progresses, my opinion has changed to believe it is a VERY bad flu that I do not want to get.  In hindsight, the lockdowns did not accomplish much.  As soon as things opened up againg this "flu" picked up where it left off.

[Jollygoodfellow]

1 hour ago, OnMyWay said:

Masks, distancing, handwashing and maybe some business modifications is the maximum I would go for. 

Thats certainly how I see it now.

29 minutes ago, Dave Hounddriver said:

In hindsight, the lockdowns did not accomplish much.  As soon as things opened up againg this "flu" picked up where it left off.

Sort of debatable depending which country we talk about. Second waves I think will always be the norm if we hid under the bed for it to go away and one day feel it's safe to venture out but of course there will be a few bugs hanging around somewhere. All of these things still exist, Swine flu, Bird flu, Mad cow etc so in the right conditions they reappear. Hmm is VD still about ? 

[Mike J]

6 hours ago, OnMyWay said:

Let's speculate that Covid changes the average age of mortality by negative 1-3 years, for a period of a year or two, without lockdowns.  With lockdowns and closure of businesses, say only 1 year difference. So, would you be willing to sacrifice 1-2 years of your last years of life in order to benefit the majority of society?

The difficulty with your argument and question is the word "average" when asking if a person is willing to give up 1-2 years of life for the good of society.  Perhaps you should be asking if you or other members are willing to give up whatever REMAINS of your life, regardless of age, as a husband/wife and father/mother to benefit the majority of society and prevent small business failures?   "Average" is what happens to the group, the reality of death, and the consequences for our families, whenever it happens is our respective reality.   I assume from your efforts to lose weight and improve your overall health and immune system you answer would be "no", the same as the overwhelming majority of humanity.  

BTW - congrats on losing weight.   I lost 50 pounds about five years ago, took about 12 months, and it does feel a lot better to not to be packing that weight around.

 

[Tommy T.]

8 hours ago, OnMyWay said:

When the Covid-19 "Pandemic" started, we didn't know much.  It quickly got sorted out that the vast majority of deaths were elderly and/or people who were already sick with one or more comorbidities.  In some cases, poor choices by leaders led to increased deaths of the elderly.  I have three comorbidities; overweight, HBP and some asthma.  Also arthritis, but not sure if that counts.  It might count down below.  Like most humans, I fear for my life when there is a possible threat to it.  In the beginning, I noticed that many were fearful.  As time passed, and restrictions eased, I noticed that many here relaxed a bit, and I didn't notice the same level of fear.  For some, like me, I was / am totally burnt out on the restrictions, to the point of, let's go back to living and let the cards fall where they may.

OMW... I will only say that L and I try to make sure we are not contributors to the ongoing pandemic. Unlike so many people we observe on our forays to shop, we are careful to wear masks and do so properly. To us, it is being respectful to anyone we encounter. We are not (yet) infected, but we take the precautions. There are many cavalier people out there who do not seem to care about others, including older relatives, friends or just people they may encounter.

If you recall in news reports, mask wearing and social distancing help keep infected people from infecting others. I cannot honestly say whether I would take these measures were I 20 years old? But, I think I would. I was never before, nor now, someone who would disregard public safety suggestions/regulations. I love life and know that others do too...

You make some interesting points, of which I disagree with a few. But I am not going to get into those now.

Edited October 20, 2020 by Tommy T.

[RBM]

6 hours ago, Dave Hounddriver said:

Yes.  In hindsight.  However no-one was sure what we were dealing with back then.  We saw media fueled hysteria of hospitals overflowing and ever increasing death rates.  We, the average people, could not be sure if this was an extinction event or a bad flu.  As it progresses, my opinion has changed to believe it is a VERY bad flu that I do not want to get.  In hindsight, the lockdowns did not accomplish much.  As soon as things opened up againg this "flu" picked up where it left off.

NZ would prove some what different to your thinking Dave.

Lock down does work. I do not deny the extreme hardship on people of enduring a full lock down how ever consider the alternatives. Allow the virus to run unchecked.......

There are some interesting arguments if one googles Lunacy Lock downs, at times its kinda tough to distinguish between the many conspiracy theorists and those whom offer a constructive argument. 

[OnMyWay]

1 hour ago, Mike J said:

The difficulty with your argument and question is the word "average" when asking if a person is willing to give up 1-2 years of life for the good of society.  Perhaps you should be asking if you or other members are willing to give up whatever REMAINS of your life, regardless of age, as a husband/wife and father/mother to benefit the majority of society and prevent small business failures?   "Average" is what happens to the group, the reality of death, and the consequences for our families, whenever it happens is our respective reality.   

 

It is not really an argument.  Of course there is no way to actually do this.  It was late when I posted.  Perhaps a better approach would have been more specific.  "Knowing what you know now, would you ever vote for lockdowns to control the spread of Covid?".  Personally, I would not.

2 hours ago, Mike J said:

 I assume from your efforts to lose weight and improve your overall health and immune system you answer would be "no", the same as the overwhelming majority of humanity.  

I guess I was not clear.  My answer would be "Yes" but the question is impossible.  Improving my health is a way to fight.  If you look at a country like the U.S., it is no wonder they have so many deaths.  So many people are unhealthy, especially in certain groups.

 

[OnMyWay]

29 minutes ago, Tommy T. said:

If you recall in news reports, mask wearing and social distancing help keep infected people from infecting others. I cannot honestly say whether I would take these measures were I 20 years old? But, I think I would. I was never before, nor now, someone who would disregard public safety suggestions/regulations. I love life and know that others do too...

As I mentioned in my reply to Mike above, I probably could have been more clear and less rambling.  People not following the basics, masks, distancing, etc., is another topic.  My gist was supposed to be more about lockdowns.

Also, I had in the back of my mind a story I saw, which is another take on the issues.  Somewhere in the U.S. there was an old folks home.  20-30 residents decided to go out front and protest.  Their theme was "Let us out, we don't care anymore.  We would rather die out there than die of loneliness in here.".  They were willing to risk it all to see their families, etc.  Their situation is not ours, but it is something to think about.

[OnMyWay]

23 minutes ago, RBM said:

NZ would prove some what different to your thinking Dave.

Lock down does work. I do not deny the extreme hardship on people of enduring a full lock down how ever consider the alternatives. Allow the virus to run unchecked.......

There are some interesting arguments if one googles Lunacy Lock downs, at times its kinda tough to distinguish between the many conspiracy theorists and those whom offer a constructive argument. 

New Zealand is a very unique island nation situation, with only 5 million residents.  Fairly easy to lockdown tight quickly and for a short duration.  Not comparable to many other places.  By comparison, for example, the Los Angeles metro area has 13 million residents, with a very diversified population of many different cultures and economic levels.

[Jack Peterson]

17 minutes ago, OnMyWay said:

Fairly easy to lockdown tight quickly and for a short duration. 

 This seems to be the Problem,  Negros island was locked down tighter than a jam jar BUT some Idiot Lawyer decided to go on a Spree to Manila by private plane, then on his return, NO Quarantine, Seems the Word Lockdown, meant nothing to him Now we have again some 10+ new cases all emanating from  his travels around the Dumaguete Area. If they are going to Lockdown for goodness Sake let it be Everyone, Of course there is no answer as to why a private plane was allowed in a Non emergency landing, Normally I would be quite but this was just outrageous