Dropping Off Forums

[Singers]

Something come up lately and I just wanted to clear things incase any chatter goes on in the background.. I dropped off not just this forum but literally every expat forum as I have found the uses rather limited to what I am doing. I am still here at 4am not because I am sat sipping on San Mig but because I am working.. I don't mind answering posts about "where is immigration" etc. but most are already archived or there are plenty of other people who can tell new members where to go. I have haven't any issues with anyone here or on any forum as there are all walks of life and the disputes between people aren't mine. I haven't the time or interest to get involved in arguing. Someone writes a post on business 10 people will write one about not doing business here yet there are a small minority of us here that do business every day. I live here on my income from those businesses. Every business here has some degree of profit and most failures are down to trust and human error rather than the ability of the business to function. Culturally you find most people here will bring in a relative or manager to run it, that is one major flaw in any business regardless of where you are in the world trust is earned not given on a free plate and anyone looking at a business needs to realise that. It doesn't mean that its all negative as several of the people I am associated with are literally earning tens of millions of pesos a year. I myself am slowly climbing in to the P2m a year bracket and over the next 5 years will expect to be doing a lot more.So how does this tie into the forums? Mainly its time consumption as I like meeting people but often I will spend at least 2 hours a day on forums and most of that it is reading through garbage posts. E.g. someone asks about goats there would be 30-40 replies which aren't even relevant until you get to people who have ignored that and put the information you want or can help with. This Isnt directed at a single forum its just the nature of the beast. Most forums have a lot of people who do have the spare time to write on nearly every post its partly habit and its partly nothing better to do. It would be more constructive sometimes for people to just leave a post a couple of days to try and draw out some of the larger member group to try and get them involved more especially when there are a lot of people out there with more experience. I know several people here that don't write yet have had long discussions in private as regards business. I am also in the process of helping someone else develop a venture for export. At the end of the day I do more via email constructively than I do on open forums which is why the ratio of members to posts is very low on most of the expat forums as a lot of people feel intimidated or won't get the right advice.I am neither annoyed or bothered with anyone on any of the forums same as generally I don't take sides in arguments I will give opinions if asked and I can understand why some people don't get on or end up in arguments etc. but I would ask this.. Is it really worth it? arguing with someone you hardly know and may meet a couple of times a year better to agree to disagree and move on. There is more infighting on forums than I see anywhere else which is another reason I have decided to distance myself as there is no real need for it. Its not like most of the people on forums work together or have any close contact except the forums.. live and let live.. there is more to do than disputes. I know its easy to get caught up in a lot of the stuff that goes on but I have also seen people change their minds on a whim after throwing their dummy out the pram its all irrelevant. I have also seen people sabotage peoples business ventures because they don't get on.. guess what most people here wouldn't give you a second look.. the expat community should be helping each other not dragging each other down.The night out that this forum had at The Ranch I done a review to help promote the place. The owner thought it would be a bad review as its common knowledge Expats run things down instead of pick them up.. Its about time people started helping each other because nobody outside of the Expats will. Dragging over old conversations and chat doesn't fix anything what does need to be done is constructive things to show how things can be done. When we met at The Ranch there were several people saying about the problems with sponsering students, why aren't there any posts on how to put this right surely some of you out there have managed to control that problem.My post may seem negative but its more to do with looking at what is wrong and getting it put right.. the issues some have had recently are irrelevant I had dropped off the forums before then. Just wanted people to know why I am not on here.. and its nothing personal to any individual as its just purely the forums being the way they are I hope someone gets the formula right although you can't please all the people all the time..

:DI too contribute my time to forums less & less, for the same reasons. Uzi.

Missing U'2 already!!Kindest regards,Tom :541:

[UZI]

I know that I came to learn and I am still learning after all these years and many of you keep teaching me, sometimes daily and sometimes weekly or monthly but I still keep learning and I thank each and everyone of you for that, so IMO none of us knows so much about the ever changing Philippines and its laws or rules that may be related to us, that we can now stop learning about them, or even about life itself and other cultures, that we get to a point that we can stop learning. IMO we learn from the cradle to the grave and we will only stop learning when the end comes and maybe not even then.

Lee,We are also here, as you point out, to continue learning from others.

STILL LEARNING............... :541:Read the fine print...Uzi

[Mr Lee]

I know that I came to learn and I am still learning after all these years and many of you keep teaching me, sometimes daily and sometimes weekly or monthly but I still keep learning and I thank each and everyone of you for that, so IMO none of us knows so much about the ever changing Philippines and its laws or rules that may be related to us, that we can now stop learning about them, or even about life itself and other cultures, that we get to a point that we can stop learning. IMO we learn from the cradle to the grave and we will only stop learning when the end comes and maybe not even then.

Lee,We are also here, as you point out, to continue learning from others.

STILL LEARNING............... :541:Read the fine print...Uzi

Yup Uzi, my point exactly. Some will miss information which could have been important to them, and others will fail to pass on information that could have been important to others and then shake their head in disbelief when someone else goes to jail for not knowing what they think that the others should have known. We all need to help each other by teaching what we learn so that no one has to end up learning the hard way. 

[Singers]

I know that I came to learn and I am still learning after all these years and many of you keep teaching me, sometimes daily and sometimes weekly or monthly but I still keep learning and I thank each and everyone of you for that, so IMO none of us knows so much about the ever changing Philippines and its laws or rules that may be related to us, that we can now stop learning about them, or even about life itself and other cultures, that we get to a point that we can stop learning. IMO we learn from the cradle to the grave and we will only stop learning when the end comes and maybe not even then.

Lee,We are also here, as you point out, to continue learning from others.

STILL LEARNING............... :541:Read the fine print...Uzi

Hi Uzi,"It beggars belief"... "The committee" has worked VERY HARD to find more ways to screw a $ from you people who come here to spend your retirement income thus improving the traders lot"" Etc Etc Tom Edited May 14, 2010 by Singers

[Singers]

I know that I came to learn and I am still learning after all these years and many of you keep teaching me, sometimes daily and sometimes weekly or monthly but I still keep learning and I thank each and everyone of you for that, so IMO none of us knows so much about the ever changing Philippines and its laws or rules that may be related to us, that we can now stop learning about them, or even about life itself and other cultures, that we get to a point that we can stop learning. IMO we learn from the cradle to the grave and we will only stop learning when the end comes and maybe not even then.

Lee,We are also here, as you point out, to continue learning from others.

STILL LEARNING............... :DRead the fine print...Uzi

Hi Uzi,"It beggars belief"... "The committee" has worked VERY HARD to find more ways to screw a $ from you people who come here to spend your retirement income in OUR country thus improving the traders lot"" Etc Etc Tom :541: Edited May 14, 2010 by Mr. Lee
Repair post placement

[UZI]

I know that I came to learn and I am still learning after all these years and many of you keep teaching me, sometimes daily and sometimes weekly or monthly but I still keep learning and I thank each and everyone of you for that, so IMO none of us knows so much about the ever changing Philippines and its laws or rules that may be related to us, that we can now stop learning about them, or even about life itself and other cultures, that we get to a point that we can stop learning. IMO we learn from the cradle to the grave and we will only stop learning when the end comes and maybe not even then.

Lee,We are also here, as you point out, to continue learning from others.

STILL LEARNING............... :541:Read the fine print...Uzi

Hi Uzi,"It beggars belief"... "The committee" has worked VERY HARD to find more ways to screw a $ from you people who come here to spend your retirement income thus improving the traders lot"" Etc Etc Tom

Tom,The financial part is insignificant. Just a couple of hundred Piso. The point is in a given situation, you could go to prison for not carrying the I-card or informing on change of address or for not doing the annual report. All things that are required by law & we should know about & respect.Uzi.

[Travis]

I know that I came to learn and I am still learning after all these years and many of you keep teaching me, sometimes daily and sometimes weekly or monthly but I still keep learning and I thank each and everyone of you for that, so IMO none of us knows so much about the ever changing Philippines and its laws or rules that may be related to us, that we can now stop learning about them, or even about life itself and other cultures, that we get to a point that we can stop learning. IMO we learn from the cradle to the grave and we will only stop learning when the end comes and maybe not even then.

Lee,We are also here, as you point out, to continue learning from others.

STILL LEARNING...............Read the fine print...Uzi

Hi Uzi,"It beggars belief"... "The committee" has worked VERY HARD to find more ways to screw a $ from you people who come here to spend your retirement income thus improving the traders lot"" Etc Etc Tom

Tom,The financial part is insignificant. Just a couple of hundred Piso. The point is in a given situation, you could go to prison for not carrying the I-card or informing on change of address or for not doing the annual report. All things that are required by law & we should know about & respect.Uzi.

it is the same law in the US but I do not believe that even 1 alien had ever been asked to produce their cards & I have never been asked to produce my visa yet here in Cebu. I believe it is more about knowing who is in the country & slowly tightening the grip on those here illegally

[Singers]

I know that I came to learn and I am still learning after all these years and many of you keep teaching me, sometimes daily and sometimes weekly or monthly but I still keep learning and I thank each and everyone of you for that, so IMO none of us knows so much about the ever changing Philippines and its laws or rules that may be related to us, that we can now stop learning about them, or even about life itself and other cultures, that we get to a point that we can stop learning. IMO we learn from the cradle to the grave and we will only stop learning when the end comes and maybe not even then.

Lee,We are also here, as you point out, to continue learning from others.

STILL LEARNING............... :photo-109:Read the fine print...Uzi

Hi Uzi,"It beggars belief"... "The committee" has worked VERY HARD to find more ways to screw a $ from you people who come here to spend your retirement income thus improving the traders lot"" Etc Etc Tom

Tom,The financial part is insignificant. Just a couple of hundred Piso. The point is in a given situation, you could go to prison for not carrying the I-card or informing on change of address or for not doing the annual report. All things that are required by law & we should know about & respect.Uzi.

Ta Uzi,I always carry mine in PI BUT your point is very well taken.UK Tom :agree:

[Jollygoodfellow]

No disrespect to Matt the OP on this topic but I don't like blogs much,(Matt has his own blog) Let me explain.blogs are like forums to give the reader information but in my view a blog is very one sided,the authors view.people who read it take it as gospel what the writer says where a forum can give a variety of experiences and opinions.Its a bit like the stink that occurred with The Lonely Planet Guide awhile back when it was found that many of the authors of information on pacific counties have never been there because of the cost of travel,they were getting their information off the web and writing their own guides while never leaving home but it but every one believes the information they provide to be the real facts when its possible that some facts are not facts at all.Another thing about blogs is the owner of that blog can use it to slander people and to try to ruin some ones work,I have seen one blog with a whole page like this,try doing that on a forum! the members just would not tolerate it but the owner of a blog can get away with it because he has no one to answer to where a forum is a community project by its members.So personally I prefer a forum to lean from or give an opinion.Just my 3 peso worth.

[tropicalwaste]

Bossman its all down to the forum or blog author to put honest information and guide it. The same happens on forums all the time. I have met enough people over the last few years which were former members of "another forum" who had got on the wrong side of moderators to have be deleted or blocked but only after the moderators had given their view yet hadn't given the people involved the opportunity to correct or put both arguments on the table. Now for it gets into the he said she said disputes.. its fact and just not worth going over exactly who as it just ends up long winded.. The other things are like Don Herrington's forums/yahoo groups.. they are heavily biast and moderated. Prime example was someone was asking about viability of raising pigs to which I replied a truthful answer on the basis that you can raise a small quantity of pigs but its better for personal consumption although could make a small profit. You have to remember a lot of retirees have a very small budget so an extra P3,000+ a month from pigs would actually be worth their while as well as keeping them busy for an hour a day, tie that in with a small sari-sari and a couple of apartments its all viable because it can be self-managed without staff. What happens? I get some email from a crazy Canadian moderator telling me that he knows better and had a farm of over 1000 pigs in Canada and shouldn't post that information as they couldn't make a living off pigs in the Philippines. At which point I discussed the fact he himself had pigs here and had raised them for profit so where was the problem! at which point he no longer replied.. Lonely planet like anything in book form is very likely to be out of date even if they had visited the Philippines. I read the book and there was little information in there of value because it seemed purely "factual" e.g. population etc. etc. rather than insight very quick to me that it was just people that had browsed other books. But at the same time don't we see forums advertising E-Books (not here) selling information that is useless and out of date? we all know which e-books and I bought a couple of them just to see what was in them and the information is worthless and overpriced I would strongly advise nobody to buy them and if you need a lot of specific information you would be better to hire an Expat for a few days for the same money.So what use has a blog? A blog itself is set generally in date order so things that have happened are generally specific to that date and someones view on it. What you will find in TropicalPenpals though is often I will come across things like "dial Mcdonalds" and I will add it into it for easy searching so someone wanting 24hrs delivery can find it. But at the same time "thought" articles are written from my view on things and things I have seen at that time. There is nothing to stop people replying to posts like they would on a forum but one major advantage is they start with the answer and then it gets discussed rather than starting with the question. I don't write about stuff I don't know so if its not there e.g. Schools and education in the Philippines you will find little or no information because my daughter Zoei isn't old enough for school and I haven't instigated the twinning program as of yet as I have 2 schools I am looking to twin up with but it has to be done from the right angle. I.e. its not a cash machine its a cultural exchange and experience.Disputes with someone who writes a blog or a forum - They both seem to end the same way yet there is always a solution if people put down their pride and really thought about what they are doing. In most cases people offend each other and if people spent a bit more time admitting that they are a part of the problem as well as the solution and just said "everyone has a right to an opinion even if I don't agree with it". Then most things would be resolved quickly instead of dragged out. I have seen it time and time again where people rip into each other online yet meet in person and its smoothed over. Look at Paul and Bob Ward recently as I believe Mr.Lee had something in resolving the matter? Anyway if you have an issue with someone better to start of just working it out rather than increasing the problem. Same reason I posted this on the forum in the first place as I was getting dragged into a dispute that I had little knowledge about my response was regarding "over moderation on forums" which is something completely different. Most things here end up arguments over trivial things (on most forums) my big question to anyone in a dispute or had one recently what you were arguing about how much does it impact your life the actual dispute in comparison to what the dispute actually causes you in stress and anger? Its generally all irrelevant and much better to just drop an email if something was said out of order or ask why the other person was so mad about the topic in the first place you will probably find in most cases its off tangent and more to do with how its handled than the actual discussion. Getting long winded again.. The important thing here is friendships and meet ups not the online tin god syndrome that seems to happen sometimes. Social events need to happen more often but also community building events as drinking beer is only one scenario of life here. We have lots of people from lots of backgrounds makes more sense to do something productive with it as well as keeps people busy and into something they enjoy. I am a bit further south than most people on here but I am already involving myself heavily in the local community and it doesn't always have to be about money. One thing I did do before but haven't had time to do this year is organise visits to local charity events that people on holiday seemed to find a life changing experience its something others could pick up on. Another idea I was looking at last year which I also haven't had time to do was to organise a team event from abroad where people will come to the Philippines for 1 - 2 weeks and build/renovate a school or house etc. for people that really needed it something anyone can pick up on if they are looking for something to do in a community spirit. The Chinese community organise their own fire brigade while we sit here arguing over Forums and Blogs.. its about time we started doing something positive..Quick comment on the ACR what happens if you never collect it from immigration as in theory the government already have it?