Dzighnman Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 I was following another topic that dealt with the issue of certain "rights" that we do without in choosing to live in the Philippines. The issue was to do with firearm posession and as the topic twisted and turned (mostly OT), several posters commented that we, as foreigners do not have rights in the Philippines. My post here is not intended to debate that which we cannot resolve, why foreigners may or may not have rights. My point I would like to gain opinion on is this:(NOTE: Please note that this topic is not in any way shape or form be interpreted as a criticism of the soldiers that fight for freedom and basic human rights, abroad, or law enforcement that works so hard to protect them domestically)If we, as foreigners, mostly originating or having lived in countries where rights afforded citizens are by in large afforded to immigrants, and non-immigrants (hell, even illegal aliens) at various levels.... if we have lived a majority of our lives in places where we had certain "rights", ...... witnessed lives sacrificed for these "rights", paid exhorbitant taxes to fight for these "rights", and generally share pride in being a part of places where these "rights" are for all to benefit.... then how is it that after so much sacrifice and cost throughout our lives, we come here to retire and seemingly take little issue with the willing sacrifice of many of those "rights"?So it is not only gun ownership I refer to, but others come to mind. I am from the USA, so much of my comparisons I draw will be from that direction, so not sure how much is applicable to other countries of orgin on this forum. Let's take a look at a couple of the obvious rights we left behind:1). Firearm ownership is the easy one.2). The unrestricted right to earn a living in support of ourself and our family. (certainly possible with strict restrictions applied)3). Highly restricted land ownership laws4). Unlawful search and siezure (only heard of someone being extorted by police in this way, not a personal experience) mostly refers to ground level corruption5). Knowledge that a 911 call will be answered and you will receive expedient care. (I admit, I may one day miss this oneOK, you get the idea so mabe some not so obvious rights:1). Free speech: Tried joining any protest events and lived to tell about it?2). Right to due process: Got in any car accidents lately? How much did it cost you to settle?3). Right to have anything you go to the store for actually be in stock. (OK, just testing to see if anyone is reading this far)The point is, all I have heard throughout life is "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness" mantras, media blaring how 1st worlds are so much better because "we have rights afforded us by Gov't" etc.... but I am the first to admit, I do not miss any of the "rights" I do not have in the Philippines, at least I have not come across one I miss having yet..... but my whole life I was proud to be from the "land of the free and the home of the brave" because of my rights...... maybe it is just me having an epiphany (brain fart) but I just realized how little all those expensive "rights" I actually needed or used.I certainly could be overlooking something so if anyone could chime in and enlighten me on any other "rights" we might have lost in our relocation to the Philippines, please do, as I just do not see it. Any other perspectives out there? :cheersty: 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i am bob Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 How can I say this.... How about "exactly"!Another great post! And I"m sure there will be lots of replies to come.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Sibbick Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 What ever your thoughts are on any given situation, just grin and bear it.Foreigners can be deported just for disrespecting a Filipino.And the rights in a car accident is one reason I don't drive in the Philippines. I have heard of a court case where the foreigner was found guilty because if the foreigner had not been in the Philippines, the accident would not have happened. Which in a weird way, makes sense.In my opinion, If you respect ALL Filipinos ALL of the time, your rights sort of fall in to their own place.Regards: Jim 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billten Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 In my opinion, If you respect ALL Filipinos ALL of the time, your rights sort of fall in to their own place.Hmmm, problem is do they respect you back? If not then you MUST demand respect as it has to be a two way street. What i have found is that you simply get NO respect if you don't act and expect the same respect in return for how you treat people. Demanding the same respect in return is often where things fall apart, for example, when i first arrived, i was building my house and i had a small crew of workers. I treated them very well and gave them all kinds of benefits. What i found was that the moment i left the lot, the work stopped, no matter what i asked for or what i said would happen if it didn't. As soon as i started getting mad and yelling and finally firing a few guys for 'laziness', suddenly the work started getting done.I ran a business in Canada for 15 years and never once lost my temper in front of anyone, i considered it 'unprofessional'. Here, if you don't have the reputation of 'he's a nice guy, but he's got a temper', IME you get walked on. In fact, years later, guys who used to work for me and become friends, would tell me that initially they thought i was 'buang' and just stupid rich, it wasn't until they saw me as a person and i had a few melt down's did they treat me with the basic respect that i offered and expected in return. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum Support Old55 Posted March 8, 2012 Forum Support Posted March 8, 2012 bilten quote "do they respect you back? If not then you MUST demand respect as it has to be a two way street. What i have found is that you simply get NO respect if you don't act and expect the same respect in return for how you treat people.""As soon as i started getting mad and yelling and finally firing a few guys for 'laziness', suddenly the work started getting done."I don't totally agree with you here in fact in some extreme cases acting in the way you describe could get you killed.Dzighnman and Jim are correct in that we Foreigners have few if any rights when in conflict with a Filipino. If while being reasonable and respectful to a Filipino the same is not returned just politely depart the area or cancel the transaction. Demanding, yelling or other actions that could cause loss of face is not going to end will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billten Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 If while being reasonable and respectful to a Filipino the same is not returned just politely depart the area or cancel the transaction. Demanding, yelling or other actions that could cause loss of face is not going to end will.And if the area you are in is your house? Do you still depart the area?Your point about face goes both ways, what about your face? What about the fact that your neighbours will also know you have no 'face' and can be walked all over. There has to be a line you draw... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum Support Old55 Posted March 8, 2012 Forum Support Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Very good point! If you have a major investment there what to do? THis is something each of us must realize when deciding to live or visit there. Do you just walk away? What if for no good reason you get blacklisted? Jailed or killed? I agree with you about face going both ways and I'll go back to what I said "being reasonable and respectful" that will in most situations yield the best results and in most cases you would be viewed as the one with character and "good" face. Edited March 8, 2012 by Old55 Wrong size 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) ......we come here to retire and seemingly take little issue with the willing sacrifice of many of those "rights"?Hey Dzighnman,I had to read your OP a few times to get the overall theme to your question. I hope my reading comprehensionis not failing me here. Well, let's see....do we have the right to save our own face, as being debated at this time. Many years ago as a Filipino, I had the luxury to take a stronger stance against any injustice to me, my family orproperty. But as I get older (and not necessarily wiser), I'm beginning to take a more chill out posture. For example, I use to make a scene when a Filipino punk cuts right in front of me. I'm talking about a typicalline in Jollibee's. These days, it really depends who's got a poker face with ace's up their sleeve. I'm talkingabout a guy I'm publicly insulting is packing a 45 under his belt. Will I or members of my family be ambushed byhis gang of friends upon exiting Jollibee? Will my food be contaminated by the server I just insulted for lousyservice? The list can go on and on. And unfortunately, the answers even for me, needs to be handled on acase by case basis. Should I stand my ground or should I just say "bahala na" and walk away to live another day? Being stronglyAmericanized, I really would like to claim my civil or human rights but in this case (even as a Filipino), perhapsgrowing older makes me think of preserving my life a little bit longer. After all, retirement with the ones you lovemust be prolonged with stress free life style. Especially in a strange and foreign land.But then again, if my life or family is in immediate danger then deadly force will be applied with extreme prejudice.Respectfully -- Jake Edited March 8, 2012 by Jake dang it, spill chek agin 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billten Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 I have a real life situation that happened two days ago at my house. This is a real situation and i want you to think exactly how you would have handled it...I am teaching in class (i home school) and i hear a 'bong bong bong' sound. I am curious and decide to investigate. The sound turns out to be a neighbour who has decided that he will cut down one of my mature hardwood trees so he can have firewood. I go and politely (my bisaya is bad but i tried to be polite anyhow) ask him to stop. He ignores me... (fill in the rest yourself)About 20 minutes later, i hear the 'bong bong bong' sound again. The guy has gone across the road and started cutting a tree off my neighbours lot. The owner is away but he is a friend and i know he doesn't want any of his trees cut down. So I... (go ahead and fill in the rest)I handled this by demanding respect, i didn't piss all over the guy, but when he ignored me or later gave me attitude, i sure as hell didn't leave quietly...Seriously, too many times i have heard guys buying into the advice 'not to make a conflict' and 'just let it go'. I agree to a point, but when that point comes, HELL NO!!! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billten Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 And unfortunately, the answers even for me, needs to be handled on a case by case basis. Should I stand my ground or should I just say "bahala na" and walk away to live another day?Agree big time Jake, most of the time, walk away, occasionally don't, no simple formula but when you know its time to stand up... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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