Foreigner Rights, Generally Speaking

[joeatmanila]

I do not believe American are anything special than others, rude rough or similar, rather the opposite. I work with Americans 25 years now...in their majority are polite, nice and good hearted people.The way i see it is that most of the expats are a bit elder or not long enough here to know how it works. They have crossed 50's-60's and they do are more demanding than what they were 20 years ago, or they are here a year or two and think they know everythingi see my own father on it, he is 73, pensioner, divorced and single about 30 years now. He changes girlfriends back home more often than I would!!!!Brought him here after my first year, 8 years ago. He issued a ticket for 4 weeks, he left in 9 days. Next year again a similar situtation and every year since, until one day he decided to stay here permanently, he thought, ok i stay at my sons house with all the privacy i want (i made a 38m2 house within my house with his own entrance and back entrance to the house just for him) i have the helpers cleaning cooking laundry etc, i have my one and only son, my one and only (that allowed to see) grandson, my daughter in law who is more tolerate than my son on my requests, my car, young girls, warm weather. He did close down his appartment back home, disconected phone, electricity and ever water service. issued one way ticket and a visa of 2 years!!! I thought he will stay for good and i wanted him to. in 10 days he again left....hahahahWhy he did not stay? He wanted the small and everyday things in life he was used to. He could not adopt to the way of living here. He could not accept so many strange things we deal with here and not in the western world. he was becoming rude to people endless times. He was becoming rude and offensive (while he is not that kind back home or anywhere else). It was the way his character was reacting to all these changes he could not adopt.in one of my car "accidents" he was with me, it was a young girl of 15 driving a scooter and falls behind my honda so nicely that my fendre came down (it was about time after so many little bumps me and wife had done :chickendance: ). Nothing happened to her. Police was passing by i stop them, they ask license from the girl, none existing, all together at the police station. It was a hot day, my father was complaining why don't we just exchange insurance and over with it...LOL!!! i explained him it doesn't works that way this time. at the station the police man asked my wife to drive the car to the closest repair shop and get an estimate of the damage, she comes back and gives him a paper stating 7.500p. He told to the girl and her relatives (which were called to the station) that beyond the non license driving fine, they have to pay 7500p, until they do the bike will not go away from the sation. They start conversations phone calls etc and they say they can give us the money after 5 hours. I was not willing to wait, we left to our outing. 11pm we were returning home.i said to my father let me stop by the station to pick up the money, he laughed at me and told me these dpeartments of the police stations they do not work at 11pm you have to come tomorrow. I did went, picked up my money, gave 1500 to the officer on duty (he was the same one) and left. When me and him talked all of it over he told me he cannot live in a country as such, he issued a ticket and left next day.See the difference? If it was him (or any one of us used to our western ways of living and dealing situations) he would be arguing in the police why is not happening this or that instead looking after his interest on the existing ways of the country. ofcourse he would piss or confuse everybody, he would not get justice or what he was supposed to anyway and he would come to the forums screaming and yealing he got ripped off.Why i write all these on this topic, trying to approach a different view of why we complain for so many things (my self included), it is not the rights we have as foreigners, it is the way we see things and the way we expect things to be. Can it be that similar way are many of us? when we complain why i do not have this or that....??? Yes i will complain now, why we are not eleigible for senior citizens discount card since we are legal residents?????? LOL!!!!!!

Edited March 11, 2012 by joeatmanila

[Old55]

What a great story thank you for sharing with us!

[i am bob]

Excellent story and one we should all heed!Thank you sir!!! :chickendance:

[Mike S]

Yes i will complain now, why we are not eleigible for senior citizens discount card since we are legal residents?????? LOL!!!!!!

Great post Joe ...... and you hit the nail right on the head ..... it is how we perceive it should be according to our own experiences ...... just as your dad wanted to handle it as he had always done back home ..... and it is just not done that way here ...... very few things are done here as we did back home ...... and as you point out some people can never except that ..... and he did the right thing by going back to where he was comfortable instead of like some that just stay here and bitch and complain ....... sorry it didn't work out for him .....Now as to the SC card ...... while we may live here permanently we are still not Citizens and the same as in the US or I assume other countries .... unless you are a Citizen some privileges which are extended to them are withheld from you ...... in this case the SC card ..... now in the US you don't get a special card just any form of ID that has your birthday on it like a driver's licence will get you discounts anywhere that offers them ..... but not all places offer senior discounts ..... back to the ol' as I perceive it should be ..... :hystery: :hystery:I guess the bad news is that I don't ever see that changing here in the Phils ..... Edited March 12, 2012 by Mike S

[Call me bubba]

You don't miss "rights" until you actually need them eg, when you are arrested. So much misinformation and half-truths are thrown around and repeated until they become "facts". This is from the US Embassy's web site on the subject of US citizens arrested in the Philippines.It documents the basic process and the Embassy's role.

here is a brief posting of the site so that you will know a little of what "rights" that you do have

this may vary slightly if your a citizen of another "western"country

The United States Government cannot arrange for an American citizen to be released from a jail or prison.

U.S. citizenship does not entitle anyone to special privileges in the Philippine legal system.

The U.S. Embassy does not have authority to intervene in the Philippine justice system and cannot act as a legal representative or provide legal advice to U.S. citizens.

A consular officer cannot:

• Demand the immediate release of a U.S. citizen arrested in the Philippines, or otherwise cause the citizen to be released.
  
• Represent a U.S. citizen at trial, give legal advice or pay legal fees and/or fines with U.S. Government funds.
  
• Intervene in the Philippine judicial system.
  
• Identify and/or contract an attorney to represent the individual before the court.
  

Experience has shown that arrest and trial in the Philippines include unpredictable sequences.

Significant deviations from prescribed procedures do occur, arrestees are often not given clear information about procedures and charges, and allegations of corruption are common.

While the Embassy will attempt to address egregious violations of basic rights, an individuals's private legal counsel should address procedural issues through the legal process.

Embassy officials can request information or clarifications in certain instances.

However, Embassy officials cannot intervene with judicial officials, interfere with the normal judicial process, or investigate allegations of corruption or other official misconduct.

Arrest

Under Philippine law, police officers and private citizens can arrest a person who has committed, is in the act of committing, or is about to commit a crime.

• If an individual is arrested by the Philippine National Police (PNP) in the act of committing a crime, no warrant of arrest is necessary.
  
• If an individual is the subject of a complaint, the police may either secure a warrant from a judge, or invite the individual to the police station for questioning.
  
• If an individual has been arrested under a warrant, the police should advise him/her of the charges pending at the time of your arrest.
  
• If the police invite an individual only for questioning, they will attempt to determine whether the complaint has legitimacy. They will then decide either to release the person, or detain him/her until appropriate charges in court are filed against him/her.
  

In each situation, police will question the individual, and may ask the individual to sign a statement under oath.

According to Philippine law, the individual must be assisted by a lawyer throughout this process.

Preliminary Investigation

If someone has been arrested without a warrant, the arresting officer will submit evidence to the Prosecutor (formerly known as a Fiscal) who will conduct a preliminary investigation to determine whether the available evidence merits the filing of formal charges.

Evidence, in this case, may include testimony, complaints, and other sworn statements.

The Prosecutor is required to file charges within twelve hours of an arrest for a minor offense or within 36 hours for serious offenses. Absent such charges, the Prosecutor is obliged to release the subject.

If someone has been arrested with a warrant,

the Prosecutor will determine if probable cause exists and the execution of the arrest was proper.

The Prosecutor then has 60 days to file the charges with the appropriate court.

However, if the evidence presented by the police is not strong or sufficient,

the Prosecutor will make a recommendation for dismissal of the charges.

[nor cal mike]

Very well said Joe. You hit it out of the park. Thanks for such an insightful post.

[TheMason]

The lack of basic civil rights is the primary reason I left the Philippines. I will not live in a place where I cannot:

-Earn a living in the field of my choice.

-Own 100% of any business I choose to start.

-Speak my mind freely about politics and government policy.

-Own real property.

-Have equal standing in a court of law.

-Have confidence in the strength of contracts and rule of law.

I could deal with the 'out of stock', crappy shopping, infrastructure, cultural differences, and all the other things you deal with in day to day life. But at this stage in my life moving to the Philippines would require me to give up so much and get so little in return. As I get closer to retirement age things may change, but the sacrifices are too great for now.

[FlyAway]

The lack of basic civil rights is the primary reason I left the Philippines. I will not live in a place where I cannot:

-Earn a living in the field of my choice.

-Own 100% of any business I choose to start.

-Speak my mind freely about politics and government policy.

-Own real property.

-Have equal standing in a court of law.

-Have confidence in the strength of contracts and rule of law.

I could deal with the 'out of stock', crappy shopping, infrastructure, cultural differences, and all the other things you deal with in day to day life. But at this stage in my life moving to the Philippines would require me to give up so much and get so little in return. As I get closer to retirement age things may change, but the sacrifices are too great for now.

"Protectionist Society"

[i am bob]

What TheMason said is very true of many people - living in the Philippines is not for everybody at all ever and then for some during certain stages of their lives! And for some there is no place they would rather be! It is all a matter of priorities and choices and I respect a man or woman who can stand tall and state honestly why something is not for them.

[Thomas]

I suppose TS is right about many things, because many kanos have talked about such problems,

BUT some I don't agree with:

One other thing that has to be mentioned is, how do the rights of a foreigner here compare to other places in Asia?Hmmm, China, Vietnam, Cambo, aaargggg ugly.OK, how about Japan, Korea, etc. etc. A lot more subtle, but you can ever forget becoming a member of their society too.Perhaps Phils aint so bad in comparison to its neighbours...

And compared to poor country citizens coming to USA/Europe - if they get in at all... :)

Please enlighten me, i do not understand the topic!!!!What are we talking about here?Right to own a gun? Get one under your wife's name, keep it home and GOOD LUCK if you ever decide to use it. Or we want to walk around the town like in the wild west cowboy's films with two guns on our waste? I do not get it :(Earn living? Who ever denies you that? make your papers properly and you can work (now do not say it is low salary, this is the country's salaries!!!). Otherwise it sounds to me as if an immigrant to any other country without proper papers to say the same? Unless you feel same as the Mexicans in Arizona....Highly restricted land ownership?

...

Exactly. I don't know comparings concerning possiblity for foreigners of buying land, but it isn't odd poor countries want to reduce such possiblities, so rich people can't come and buy the "whole" country.

Compared to USA and Europe it's much EASIER in the Philippines for most foreigners to:

/become citizen

/being allowed to get into the country at all

/being allowed to work AT ALL...(I mean normal jobs, don't counting aupair.)