Would You Stay Or Go Home

[Mr Lee]

no survey would come out correct because most who could not cut it in the Philippines lost interest in forums or were never on forums in the first place, but I have read many posts on forums where former expats called the Philippines a hell hole and other such expletives that might be better left unsaid....

As is usually the case.... Lee is one step ahead of me.I've only been following the Forums for three years, and while there seems to be a core group of 50 or so that have been RP residents for most of that time.... there have been many hundreds who post about their move to the RP.... and then drift away never to be heard from again?Did they just lose interest in the Forums?  Seems if they are living there, they would have more interest.Did they return home and no longer give a crap about the Forums? Seems more likely to me.Someone like Lee would have a much better handle on this than I... Art's opinion just seems to make intuitive sense to me.Tom in Texas

My opinion on that is that no one likes people to know that they failed, so those who cannot cut it either join the same forums under another name and become those negative posters or they leave the forum they were on and join another one or they leave forums totally because they hate the Philippines and want nothing to do with anything about it.  Some people who have no choice but to stay become very negative in their every view of the Philippines because they are trapped or feel trapped because of their wives or because they no longer have enough to live in their home countries, or because they could never go home to their home countries and have all their families and friends say "I told you so" so they instead nitpick so many things that it becomes obvious to all that they are so unhappy with their lives in the Philippines but they would never admit why or cannot see it for themselves, so they refuse to leave or cannot. As I said, the Philippines is sure not for everyone but if a person can roll with the punches that life throws at them in their home country and during their lives, and if they are not spoiled people then they will do fine in the Philippines and enjoy it because no place is perfect and life is what we make it. 

[UZI]

Everyone has a different POV because we are all different and have different wants and needs as well as different financial situations etc. Also Tom beat me to it, no survey would come out correct because most who could not cut it in the Philippines lost interest in forums or were never on forums in the first place, but I have read many posts on forums where former expats called the Philippines a hell hole and other such expletives that might be better left unsaid. The Philippines is not for everyone and that is why I tell people to first do a very long visit before moving there because a vacation is very different than living somewhere, so some end up loving it and some still hate it after a year. One member on this forum who does not post often and has lived in Cebu about a year now cannot wait to get back to the states and tells me that all the time on the phone, but I will leave it for him to post his opinions.

Lee,I agree with most of what you say. Many will come here with preconceived ideas of what life is like (many never lived outside their home town), ill equiped to live without their comfort levels, to get a huge wake up call and about face to leg it back home. Many others know exactly what to expect & will live here full stop. My own PERSONAL experience is that in the last 4 years I have met MANY MANY more who love it here, to those that don't (2 actually). Some IMHO are the type who will complain no matter where they live (they left their home to come here after all)As for straw polls indicating anything, more have responded positively to this topic than negative. As for posting on Forums, well I for one am bored of seeing the same questions over & over and mainly only contribute where I still have something new to offer. TropicalPenpals has done much the same, as other long time residents I know have too. Most active contributions come from those who don't live here IMHO.And as you point out I as well as others have my own POV.Uzi.

[Art2ro]

Here's my take on someone else's POV here: which also reaffirms Lee's comments.IS THE PHILIPPINES RIGHT FOR YOU?According to the U.S. State Department's 2007 figures the number of permanent U.S. residents in the Philippines is approximately 105,000 (250,000 total including visitors and temporary residents). This number hasn't substantially increased for several years. Why? Could it be people are either moving to other countries, returning home or just dying? Since I haven't seen many deaths reported, I assume the former. If the Philippines were the ideal retirement location, the U.S. expat population should be growing in proportion to the total number of U.S. retirees. It doesn't appear to be happening. I don't have any explanations other than a word of caution. Clearly making the adjustment to living in the Philippines must not be as easy as we might imagine. Exactly! Adjusting is difficult for many, and adapting to life here can be a MAJOR challenge.The reasons for expats departing after moving to Paradise varied, but the most common I've experienced are: Inability to adapt to Philippine culture, to include inability to accept corruption as society's norm, pervasive dishonesty, constantly being overcharged for goods and services, constant attempted scams, and expats often being viewed as a walking ATM machine; heat / humidity / typhoons; massive poverty; infrastructure deficiencies of a developing nation; failures in relationships; developing a chronic health problem (often alcohol abuse-related), and the best treatment option is returning to Western medicine; victim of crime; financial problems (resulting from declining value of dollar, failing to manage money on a budget, business failure); unable to cope with being fully retired (i.e., need to continue working to feel relevant and making a contribution to mankind)THE BOTTOM LINE: Before committing 100% to the Philippines, try it for a year or two, and have an alternate plan that will allow you to return to your home country if you are unable to adapt. DO NOT take this decision lightly! Nobody really knows what they're getting in to until they are here and experiencing the trials, tribulations, and virtues of Philippine life on a DAILY basis!My point is, that those of you few who are fortunate and happy with your lifestyles, good for you, but you are not in the majority of those who aren't as fortunate because of their circumstances! As always and my favorite mottoes, the saying goes, different strokes for different folks, it's always a matter of money and life is what you make it to be!

Edited August 9, 2010 by Boss Man
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[UZI]

Here's my take on someone else's POV here: which also reaffirms Lee's comments.IS THE PHILIPPINES RIGHT FOR YOU?According to the U.S. State Department's 2007 figures the number of permanent U.S. residents in the Philippines is approximately 105,000 (250,000 total including visitors and temporary residents). This number hasn't substantially increased for several years. Why? Could it be people are either moving to other countries, returning home or just dying? Since I haven't seen many deaths reported, I assume the former. If the Philippines were the ideal retirement location, the U.S. expat population should be growing in proportion to the total number of U.S. retirees. It doesn't appear to be happening. I don't have any explanations other than a word of caution. Clearly making the adjustment to living in the Philippines must not be as easy as we might imagine. Exactly! Adjusting is difficult for many, and adapting to life here can be a MAJOR challenge.The reasons for expats departing after moving to Paradise varied, but the most common I've experienced are: Inability to adapt to Philippine culture, to include inability to accept corruption as society's norm, pervasive dishonesty, constantly being overcharged for goods and services, constant attempted scams, and expats often being viewed as a walking ATM machine; heat / humidity / typhoons; massive poverty; infrastructure deficiencies of a developing nation; failures in relationships; developing a chronic health problem (often alcohol abuse-related), and the best treatment option is returning to Western medicine; victim of crime; financial problems (resulting from declining value of dollar, failing to manage money on a budget, business failure); unable to cope with being fully retired (i.e., need to continue working to feel relevant and making a contribution to mankind)THE BOTTOM LINE: Before committing 100% to the Philippines, try it for a year or two, and have an alternate plan that will allow you to return to your home country if you are unable to adapt. DO NOT take this decision lightly! Nobody really knows what they're getting in to until they are here and experiencing the trials, tribulations, and virtues of Philippine life on a DAILY basis!My point is, that those of you few who are fortunate and happy with your lifestyles, good for you, but you are not in the majority of those who aren't as fortunate because of their circumstances! As always and my favorite mottoes, the saying goes, different strokes for different folks, it's always a matter of money and life is what you make it to be!

The link is to 1 persons, commercial site and we have established that people will have their own POV but it doesn't make much of a case that the MAJORITY who come here would prefer to be in their own country. As I said they couldn't be that happy at home to have left in the 1st place. That aside, I found this statement very strange indeed:

Could it be people are either moving to other countries, returning home or just dying? Since I haven't seen many deaths reported, I assume the former.

Where & why would expats REPORT deaths if by natural causes? Most who come here are retirees, pensioners & often 'medically challenged/disabled' in some way. Not really surprising that a good portion just die without us knowing. Some of us know of Murf for example, those that don't are because they were not on that forum. Others know Jim Langlands but only from forums. I haven't seen much by way of Obituaries in papers here like in the West.As for the:"This number hasn't substantially increased for several years. " not according to STEFS post which says it has risen by " 559-percent "Without doubt, as some have said, the Philippines isn't for all. Those that yearn for home should return if they have the finances, those that don't should have visited here a few times to 'test the water' but some as we know are dreamers & reality bites. Lucky are the ones who research 1st & are fortunate enough to find like here, one of the good forums, to get some different POV to help in the decision making, like Traveler.Uzi

[Art2ro]

What gives with all the contradictions on this topic as it's only a POV whoever is posting it weather it came from one person or a few? There are no right or wrong answers to the questions or comments posted on this topic, because people are all different in every walks of life! So, what gives? Is this just another reply or continuation from a previous pissing contest done on this forum already or is it who will get the last words in order to satisfy one's alter ego? Who knows! I give up!

[UZI]

I truly beleive, in the minds of the majority of expats, they have the urge more to live in their own home country verses in the Philippines...

I suspect Art is correct... just based on the numbers. It would take a little research, but I very, very much doubt the more than 50% of all the expats who ever resided in the RP continue to reside there or have died there.......... Therefore, I assume that a a majority of them at some point did have the urge to live somewhere, likely their home country, rather than to continue to reside in the RP.Hang in there, Art... You are right on this one.BTW - does anybody have any numbers on the total number of expats residing in the RP... and the total number of new non-tourist expat arrivals on an annual basis.Tom in Texas

Tom,:D by your replies. Perhaps you could expand on you reasoning as your 1st reply (#15) seems completely opposite to the reply above. Based on what numbers, are you making your assumptions?I still haven't seen any figures or evidence to support a statement saying the MAJORITY (even a silent one) are wishing they were back in their home country. It may be true but IMHO I don't see that 'on the ground' here. The replies in this thread & on your straw poll indicate most in fact are happy here.Uzi.

[ekimswish]

I suspect Art is correct... just based on the numbers. It would take a little research, but I very, very much doubt the more than 50% of all the expats who ever resided in the RP continue to reside there or have died there.......... Therefore, I assume that a a majority of them at some point did have the urge to live somewhere, likely their home country, rather than to continue to reside in the RP.

I guess not dieing in the Philippines doesn't necessarily indicate that it's not your preferred country to live in. Perhaps it's cheaper to die at home with whatever insurance plans someone took out years ago. There's also the family consideration, being buried in a family plot or something. Then there comes the point when you're not just retired anymore, but actually in your twilight years in the 80~90 range and could care less about beaches, beer, and women; and more about what you did 5 seconds ago and who that person is (your son) who just walked in the door. As well, preferring to live a place doesn't mean you'll live there forever. You could live there for twenty years and give home your last ten. People come and go for all kinds of reasons. I think the true indicator is where you want to live while you still have the luxury of a reasonable choice.

[UZI]

I suspect Art is correct... just based on the numbers. It would take a little research, but I very, very much doubt the more than 50% of all the expats who ever resided in the RP continue to reside there or have died there.......... Therefore, I assume that a a majority of them at some point did have the urge to live somewhere, likely their home country, rather than to continue to reside in the RP.

I guess not dieing in the Philippines doesn't necessarily indicate that it's not your preferred country to live in. Perhaps it's cheaper to die at home with whatever insurance plans someone took out years ago. There's also the family consideration, being buried in a family plot or something. Then there comes the point when you're not just retired anymore, but actually in your twilight years in the 80~90 range and could care less about beaches, beer, and women; and more about what you did 5 seconds ago and who that person is (your son) who just walked in the door. As well, preferring to live a place doesn't mean you'll live there forever. You could live there for twenty years and give home your last ten. People come and go for all kinds of reasons. I think the true indicator is where you want to live while you still have the luxury of a reasonable choice.

An interesting slant on the subject, I for one had not considered. Clearly has some truth to it, although care here is very inexpensive by western standards, the spending your dying days with family part, I can see would be very important to many.I have to say, for anyone considering whether or not to move here to live, discussions (not nit picking) like this thread probably have more merit than any other as evidenced by the replies & number of times it has been viewed (478).So come on other members. What is YOUR experience & POV here?Uzi. Edited August 9, 2010 by UZI

[Tom in Texas]

I truly beleive, in the minds of the majority of expats, they have the urge more to live in their own home country verses in the Philippines...

I suspect Art is correct... just based on the numbers. It would take a little research, but I very, very much doubt the more than 50% of all the expats who ever resided in the RP continue to reside there or have died there.......... Therefore, I assume that a a majority of them at some point did have the urge to live somewhere, likely their home country, rather than to continue to reside in the RP.

Tom,:e3358: by your replies. Perhaps you could expand on you reasoning as your 1st reply (#15) seems completely opposite to the reply above. Based on what numbers, are you making your assumptions?

Uzi,I don't think the raw data exists to actually determine the correctness of Art's initial thought (set out above).... So we are all, including you, just speculating based on our individual experiences and beliefs.Nevertheless... my posts are not contradictory.  As to my #15 reply -- I believe Forum polls are inaccurate due to the sampling base's inherent bias owing to the mindset of those who would likely be active participants on the Forums.  In other words... it would be like polling a Fox news forum to determine Obama's popularity rating... there are just some inherent biases present in the poll sample.  As for my second reply -- it is based on what I intuitively feel about this issue.  Just from having watched the ebb and flow on the Forums... I feel that more expats who come to the RP ultimately return home versus remaining in the RP for life.  Therefore, at some point during their stay, I believe "that a majority of expats have an urge to return home."  So, in spite of the results of my poll, I agree with Art's belief.I might be right, I might be wrong, I really don't care one way or the other.  Ultimately, the satisfaction of others with life in the RP will have no impact on the amount of time I spend in the RP.  It is just an interesting topic to most members of a Forum such as this.Tom in Texas Edited August 9, 2010 by Mr. Lee
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[sjp52]

no survey would come out correct because most who could not cut it in the Philippines lost interest in forums or were never on forums in the first place, but I have read many posts on forums where former expats called the Philippines a hell hole and other such expletives that might be better left unsaid....

As is usually the case.... Lee is one step ahead of me.I've only been following the Forums for three years, and while there seems to be a core group of 50 or so that have been RP residents for most of that time.... there have been many hundreds who post about their move to the RP.... and then drift away never to be heard from again?Did they just lose interest in the Forums? Seems if they are living there, they would have more interest.Did they return home and no longer give a crap about the Forums? Seems more likely to me.Someone like Lee would have a much better handle on this than I... Art's opinion just seems to make intuitive sense to me.Tom in Texas

Hi Tom, I find that I spend way more time on the forum when I am in Canada than when I am in the Philippines. Seems like i am always too busy or my mind is occupied on other things when I am in the Philippines. Edited August 9, 2010 by Mr. Lee
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