Methersgate Posted September 2, 2014 Author Posted September 2, 2014 Do you guys think that sometimes we perhaps overdue the whole poverty stricken nation thing? I mean most of the Filipinos I know are pretty well off with better phones and such than me. Maybe a bit of balance is needed? Maybe we are starting to view ourselves as the "rich foreigner" that can save them? Just asking. Let's put some numbers in: The place is pretty poor: http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD http://www.tradingeconomics.com/philippines/gdp-per-capita http://www.indexmundi.com/philippines/gdp_per_capita_(ppp).html Compare Mexico.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Negrito Posted September 2, 2014 Posted September 2, 2014 (edited) Compare Mexico.... I think this is where my confusion comes in. I compare Mexico which is 4 times better off but look at Mexico compared to the US or other western countries. I have lived here for 8 years so while I still see the PI as poorer I guess the situation doesn't seem as grave from my perspective. I also lived in Ukraine for 6 months and they are close to PI but when I was there trust me people did pretty OK. I think we both have seen more in the way of less fortunate countries so maybe I am a bit more accustom to it than the average westerner. Thanks for clearing that up. Edited September 2, 2014 by El Negrito 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methersgate Posted September 2, 2014 Author Posted September 2, 2014 (edited) The Philippines is relatively better off than it was, but the economy grows so slowly, and the population grows so fast, that the US$ GDP numbers have hardly moved at all. Even Indonesia has rocketed past the Philippines. Certainly the PPP numbers are a better indication - and let's have the Big Mac Index in there as well... http://www.economist.com/content/big-mac-index When I first visited the Philippines the absolute poverty was very striking; I agree with Miguk about that. Today there is less of that but the "quantity", as opposed to the "quality" of the poverty seems much worse. Probably this is just because there are so many more people. Edited September 2, 2014 by Methersgate 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert k Posted September 2, 2014 Posted September 2, 2014 Methersgate, I think you nailed it. Of course there would have to be some expansion with a decade or more of OFW sending money home but with the population increase, there's more but more people sharing it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjp52 Posted September 2, 2014 Posted September 2, 2014 It is very easy indeed for foreigners - and actually quite a lot harder for middle class Filipinos, simply because they are in their own country - to say to a girl we are taken with, and to her family, that it does not matter to us that she is poor, and that her family are poor. It probably doesn't matter to us; it matters a very great deal to them - and not always in the ways we are expecting. First, people may say that they are used to being poor, that they can cope with it, that they don't mind it, but in very truth, everyone who is poor, with the possible exception of perhaps half a dozen Saints-in-the-making, hates being poor. They also hate being reminded that they hate it, and they hate anyone noticing it, and they hate it when they notice it themselves. They hate having to "be careful" with the local bigwigs, they hate having to calculate daily over food and necessaries, they hate bugs, they hate smells, they hate hot sweaty nights with no aircon, and they will do ANYTHING to "keep up appearances", as we British say.,Their children will always go to school in spotless uniforms, with all the textbooks and if at all possible with shoes, Above all, they live in terror of the hospital bill that come come their way at any moment. If they get a chance to be "not poor" even for an hour, they will take it with both hands, because that hour is an escape, that they will treasure in memory for the weeks and months of back breaking drudgery to come. And that is why they will spend every peso they have, plus quite a few that they don't have, on a "blow out", inviting friends and neighbours and knowing that those they do not invite will come too - because that evening is a precious escape, and they don't believe for a moment that saving the money will ever be enough to clear their debts and allow them to own their own place and make a living at it. And all these sensitivities are right beneath the surface, and all the foreigner does is to say "It does not bother me" - it bothers THEM. Yes, the head of the household is usually delighted to see a foreigner to see a foreigner paying court to his pretty daughter, but he is also worried that the foreigner may just leave her "in the club" and disappear, and he also hates himself for having to hope that that foreigner will give him money. I disagree just a little. When poor Filipinos hang out with other poor Filipinos like in their own neighborhood they don,t think about it very much. Its when they come in contact with better off people they feel the feelings of being poor. What a lot of them realize is that being around their family and friends is more important to them than having money . Also laziness is a hard life style to break. When your use to a life of waking up every day and hanging out with your family and friends and you enjoy it then they think why change it. In the last 5 years we have hired a lot of helpers and all of them have only lasted a month or two and always the reason is I miss my family and friends. My stepson is a very lazy guy. Hes a good guy ( doesnt drink or smoke and very polite and shy} but will not go out and get a job. So finally we said if you don,t go out and get a job you can not live in this house. So he left. After about a month his mom was missing him too much and he is back 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methersgate Posted September 2, 2014 Author Posted September 2, 2014 I disagree just a little. When poor Filipinos hang out with other poor Filipinos like in their own neighborhood they don,t think about it very much. Its when they come in contact with better off people they feel the feelings of being poor. What a lot of them realize is that being around their family and friends is more important to them than having money . Also laziness is a hard life style to break. When your use to a life of waking up every day and hanging out with your family and friends and you enjoy it then they think why change it. In the last 5 years we have hired a lot of helpers and all of them have only lasted a month or two and always the reason is I miss my family and friends. My stepson is a very lazy guy. Hes a good guy ( doesnt drink or smoke and very polite and shy} but will not go out and get a job. So finally we said if you don,t go out and get a job you can not live in this house. So he left. After about a month his mom was missing him too much and he is back That's very true. Unfortunately the mere length of my nose is enough to trigger feelings of "being poor"! Very good point about being with family and friends and another very good point about laziness, although there are two groups of people whom I will never call "lazy" rice farmers and fishermen!. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpbago Posted September 2, 2014 Posted September 2, 2014 I mean most of the Filipinos I know are pretty well off with better phones It used to be that wealth was measured by where you live or what you drive or how many cows you have but now it is simply what phone you have. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Negrito Posted September 2, 2014 Posted September 2, 2014 It used to be that wealth was measured by where you live or what you drive or how many cows you have but now it is simply what phone you have. Can't always take the car or house with you but the phone usually never leaves our side. I guess for the ladies shoes and handbags still apply. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashanti Posted September 2, 2014 Posted September 2, 2014 I don't believe I ever "wrote them off" just that they don't deserve the "victimhood" defense for a job they clearly chose. That was my only point (and I caveat the "they clearly chose" leaving out the true victims of human smuggling and trafficking). I agree! I find it an insult to those people who have chosen the hard slug day in day out 24/7 rather than working as a bar girl. Its your free choice – therefore not a Victim. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashanti Posted September 3, 2014 Posted September 3, 2014 The Philippines seems to be a nation with very distinct social borders separated by what I believe are 4 different approaches to tackling their own family's poverty. The hard way out (education, sacrifice, determination), the quick way out-Bar Girl, criminal activity, scammers, the OFW, and resignation and acceptance of a hard frugal life. Theres a fifth – the dreamers, the lazy, the sense of entitlement group. On my younger days - I have this very good friend I used to hang out with. She is very pretty, intelligent and a terrific sense of humour. However, the family is dirt poor. My friend is the eldest of the family of 5. All her siblings stop their education at the end of primary school and it was only my friend who got secondary and onto college because she got educ scholarship programme. However, her D2D expenses ie. public transport and meals are covered by her family - and I mean the whole family, as all her siblings work and gave her the pocket money for her needs. Her whole family’s hopes and dreams lies on my friend. And my friend encourages their attitude. She knows and her family fully expected her to make good with her studies and land a good job and then it would be her turn to support the rest of the family. Quite a common occurrence in filipino family. Well, she did finish her studies and got that important job. So, alls well that ends well …… NOPE! I really thought she was doing well and was very pleased for her family that their sacrifices are not in vain. But the silly girl have done something at work (which I prefer not to go into details) and resulted in her dismissal. I really feel sorry for her family. And if that is not enough, when she did manage to get another job, not long after – she got pregnant by a married man. On hindsight – maybe it was not surprising what happened. I remember when we talk and shared our dreams and aspirations as young girls do, I used to tell her off, of her silly aspirations. As I keep pointing out to her, its not going to happen unless she will put in the work. And the work has to start NOW! And she just used to laugh at me and think im too serious – too boring. She wants to have some fun. Well, she did have fun living in squalid environment :rolleyes: ……… and she was sooooo promising – what a waste …………….. :( 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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