Where Do You Think The Rp Stands

[Methersgate]

I can bore for England on this...

I count myself a Hong Konger. China has never, ever backed down on this sort of issue and will not do so this time; the consequences of this are that Hong Kong will lose its role as an international financial centre to Singapore, but for the CCP that will be a price worth paying. The disturbances in Hong Kong are barely even mentioned in the Chinese media and most PRC citizens are completely unaware of them.

 

Remember that the Philippines comes within China's "second island line" which is their definition of the area that they expect to control, and to which they say they have an historical claim. In the case of the Philippines that claim is based on the correct historical fact that the datus of pre-Spanish Luzon and the Visayas paid tribute to the Emperor. They did so in order to trade, but that detail is forgotten.

[UnCheckedOther]

Third world for at least 100 more years. Although there's progress (ie tech boom), they are superficial. There are two faces to the Philippines: one that says to the world "we are ready" and screams "Pinoy Pride/Proud to be Pinoy" and the other that is mired in short-term memory, cognitive dissonance, and a penchant to use the heart less/be less butt hurt when any productive criticism is lobbed. For example, when Teri Hatcher's character from "Desperate Housewives" made a comment about the legitimacy of a Philippine uni diploma, the Philippines' first reaction was to protest rather than acknowledge that such things exist and to make plans as to how to change the system.

As long as the country is more focused on the prestige of what being 1st world brings and as long as modernity is just a veneer rather than a genuine goal to improve the social inequity in the country, first world status can only be a pipe dream. First world status, contrary to what many people believe, does not just mean material success. It also means ample opportunity for all.

Leilani

[Methersgate]

Third world for at least 100 more years. Although there's progress (ie tech boom), they are superficial. There are two faces to the Philippines: one that says to the world "we are ready" and screams "Pinoy Pride/Proud to be Pinoy" and the other that is mired in short-term memory, cognitive dissonance, and a penchant to use the heart less/be less butt hurt when any productive criticism is lobbed. For example, when Teri Hatcher's character from "Desperate Housewives" made a comment about the legitimacy of a Philippine uni diploma, the Philippines' first reaction was to protest rather than acknowledge that such things exist and to make plans as to how to change the system.

As long as the country is more focused on the prestige of what being 1st world brings and as long as modernity is just a veneer rather than a genuine goal to improve the social inequity in the country, first world status can only be a pipe dream. First world status, contrary to what many people believe, does not just mean material success. It also means ample opportunity for all.

Leilani

"Triple LIKE" actually. 

The nation does not really have a government that works; taxes go un-collected, money is siphoned off - in fairly vast amounts - from within the government system and nobody really gets to grips with simple things like infrastructure. The OFW racket is continued and encouraged, simply because it is an easy way to source foreign exchange; the actual damage that it does both to families and to the economy is ignored. The legal system does not work anything like as well as it should, because it is an unholy mixture of bad Spanish colonial laws and bad American procedures.

I'd put the functional efficiency of the Philippines as a nation state about on a par with Nigeria or Pakistan.

As Leilani says, there is a preoccupation with the surface of things - with how they appear, rather than how they are. This is no way to get things done.

 

Edited October 2, 2014 by Methersgate

[Hey Steve]

 one that says to the world "we are ready" and screams "Pinoy Pride/Proud to be Pinoy" and the other that is mired in short-term memory, cognitive dissonance, and a penchant to use the heart less/be less butt hurt when any productive criticism is lobbed. 

 

Fascinating exchange. I would love to be a fly on the wall listening to you both discuss these underlying issues of cause and effect on this issue. I learn so much. I'm much more simplistic in that every time I read an article on how the economy has grown, all I really see is a lit up skyline of Manila at night to reflect it's future success. Who's really benefiting from the growth? I mean, really. Every time I make an opinion about questioning the reality of where this growth will lead to, I'm knocked down as a negative thinker. The fact is hope holds more weight than reality in my opinion and in my simple thinking, maybe I should not be dimming the sparkle of that lit up skyline.  

[Methersgate]

 

 one that says to the world "we are ready" and screams "Pinoy Pride/Proud to be Pinoy" and the other that is mired in short-term memory, cognitive dissonance, and a penchant to use the heart less/be less butt hurt when any productive criticism is lobbed. 

 

Fascinating exchange. I would love to be a fly on the wall listening to you both discuss these underlying issues of cause and effect on this issue. I learn so much. I'm much more simplistic in that every time I read an article on how the economy has grown, all I really see is a lit up skyline of Manila at night to reflect it's future success. Who's really benefiting from the growth? I mean, really. Every time I make an opinion about questioning the reality of where this growth will lead to, I'm knocked down as a negative thinker. The fact is hope holds more weight than reality in my opinion and in my simple thinking, maybe I should not be dimming the sparkle of that lit up skyline.  

 

That's a really good point - optimism is a necessary part of economic growth.

However, optimism alone is not enough.. The economy has probably reached the point where it is reallly straining the infrastructure - Mindanao is already having almost saily brown outs and these could come back to Makati. A whole string of big reforms are needed if the growth is to continue, including big investments in infrastructure.

The elephant in the room is the Constitutional restriction on foreign investment. 

I hope I may be forgiven for a short excusion into economics, at this point.

Developing countries need to invest - both at the government level, for infrastructure, and at the private level, for the creation of industry, if they are to continue to grow, but this investment can only come from savings, and the investments will only be made if people feel confident that they will get their money back without the Government collapsing, a revolution, theft by those in power due to corruption, etc.

 

Furthermore, poor people don't have savings to invest - they spend them to live from day to day, espescially if they are not Chinese. The Chinese are uniquely frugal and save even when they are desperately poor; the Filipinos are more like everyone else!

 

It follows that most developing nations are unable to fund the investments that they need from within their domestic savings pool. This even applies to China, with a household savings rate of around 40% yes, the Chinese typically save four renminbi yuan out of every ten). Deng Xiaopeng recognised this and permitted full foreign ownership in China. Similar laws apply in most other developing nations and for the same reason.

But not in the Philippines..

So we have a nation that desperately needs new investment, but which cannot generate savings from the masses of the poor, whilst the wealthy Filipinos tend to invest overseas - there are Filipino corporations that are world class, like ICTSI, the container terminals operator, and Emperador, who recently snapped up a major Scotch whisky distiller, Whyte and Mackay, at a bargain price, thereby gaining its international distribution network.These companies tend to seek opportunities overseas, as much or more than at home. 

But it is no good telling people to invest at home; they must be free to operate in a free market.

Where can the shortfall in savings for investment come from?

The obvious answer is from overseas - from international investors, who will look to take advantage of the abundance of labour and the good English of the workforce.

But overseas investors are prevented from owning more than 40% of anything, and rather than get ensnared in the legal niceties of the anti dummy law, etc, they stay out. They are the more inclined to stay out because of the corruption issue.

 

This lack of investment is what creates the dreadful levels of unemployment and under employment (how many fit young men are employed as "security guards" when they could be doing something productive?)

This in turn drives Filipinos to work abroad, under a scheme developed for Marcos by the able technocrat Blas Ople, to cover up the under employment that Marcos had created.

It's a vicious circle. Relaxing the restraints on foreign ownership (which were put in by the USA!) will allow the Chinese in, (but then China already owns the biggest ferry company, 2GO, through a Dutch front company... ) but it may also encourage serious multinationals.

 

Sadly, such a move will dilute the power of the crony elite, who flourish on rent seeking, so don't expect it any time soon...

Edited October 2, 2014 by Methersgate

[cebu rocks]

I agree let the foreigners invest at a level playing field and China will be 1st in line  taking over huge parts of the economy

 

labor is not so cheap in China anymore with a real emerging middle class I believe they would move many factories to the Phils

 

It will not be a military take over but a economic takeover and the powers that rule now will lose there stranglehold.

[Methersgate]

I agree let the foreigners invest at a level playing field and China will be 1st in line  taking over huge parts of the economy

 

labor is not so cheap in China anymore with a real emerging middle class I believe they would move many factories to the Phils

 

It will not be a military take over but a economic takeover and the powers that rule now will lose there stranglehold.

I have a comment on that:

The thing about Chinese corporations (and I work for one) is that they cheat. They bribe, They lie. They avoid paying taxes and they don't give a flying fxxx about health and safety, the environment or anything that isn't money and the Communist Party of China.

Other corporations comply with all sorts of ethical rules, so they stay out of the Philippines whilst the Chinese, by buying politicians (Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo, this includes you) using dumies as figureheads and bribing enforcement are already IN the Philippines and raping it.

I say level the playing field, open it up, and give the ordinary Filipino and Filipina a chance to find work at home.

[cebu rocks]

Agreed but by opening up the country to all investors  China will take over because of the reasons you state Methersgate  A level play ground is impossible

 

At least when you have companys with no ethics 

[Americano]

For several years I have been reading about the great economic growth of the Philippines partly due to exports so I kept asking what does the Philippines export.  I knew the Philippines was the biggest importer of rice but never heard what they export.  Finally I read it in a news article.  The Philippines exports brake shoes and wiring harnesses for cars. Whoopie do.

 

Most of the economic growth in the Philippines is from OFW's, Filipinos living abroad who send money home to their relatives, foreigners living in the Philippines and visitors. Without them the Philippines would be one of the poorest countries in the world.

Edited October 2, 2014 by Americano

[Americano]

Ok its been touched on in other threads but where do you see the Phils ?

 

3rd world  or a emerging 2nd world county or just a few years to 1st world .

 

 

Did anyone notice that First World countries are white people and most speak English?  There's a reason for this that I'm sure most for you don't want to mention or admit.

 

The USA, Canada, Australia, UK, etc. became 1st World countries due to the moral character, hard work ethics, and intelligence of the people.  Japan made it to 1st World status after WWII with a lot of help from the USA.  The Philippines could have made it too but the people in charge like corruption too much to do what is best for their country.

Edited October 2, 2014 by Americano