Solar Panels - Need Suggestions,advice And Any Infos Related To Sp

[ozepete]

It sounds from your post you wish to build a substantial solar power array to provide you with a regular power supply to run heavy drain appliances. I think you are being overly optimistic unless you are going to invest a serious amount of money. I use solar on my boat in the UK to satisfy fairly modest power requirements. 530 watts of solar at 12 volts which provide around 30 amps max and an average of around half that on a good day. In overcast conditions it gives about 7 amps. You really need to do some serious research to avoid making an expensive mistake. First, there are different types of solar panel, mains voltage ie 220 or so, and then lower voltages such as 12 volts. Also there are different types of construction such as mono-crystaline and poly-crystalline and the more basic amorphous type. Each have their advantages depending on the ambient light conditions. Also temperature plays an important part in the panels output, the warmer the ambient temperature the less the output for a given panel so they need to be well ventilated for optimum performance. Another consideration is the type of regulator you use. Basically there are two types, a PWM (pulse width modulation) and the more advanced MPPT type (maximum power point tracking). The latter can give up to 30% more output than the PWM but if you have multiple panels and they are not all producing the same output then due to the software algorithms used, the MPPT can be less efficient than the PWM.

Also are you going to wire multiple panels in series or parallel? Again it depends on how they are going to used. I see you are currently purchasing multiple, smaller panels. 6"x 3" which is really not the way to go. Every joint and length of cable run will reduce to output of your panels due to voltage drop. You will need thick cable and short runs to keep voltage drop to a minimum. Fewer larger panels would be more efficient than many smaller ones. Are you planning to run these appliances direct from your panels or use them to charge deep cycle batteries? That opens up a whole new discussion topic in itself. But to be realistic you really need to have some power storage facility to iron out the peaks and troughs of the solar output. There is no one case fits all answer.

There is a wealth of information on the subject out there on the net. I would strongly suggest doing a lot of research so you are satified in your own mind the correct way to go forward to satisfy your personal requirements.

Ken

 

This is excellent advice from Ken.

The solar industry is awash with unachievable claims so whatever 'the industry' says should be halved then divided by two!!!

Best way to save with solar, if there is a mains supply alternative, is don't!

[florin1106]

 

Now, forgive me but I tend to disagree with you saying a Solar Panel system will Lower the value of the house..I think it will Add some value for the house..??!

Sorry my friend, as usual I don't proof read what I post, so I probably was not clear in what I meant.

 

I do not think it will make the house loose value at all, but I do not think it will add value to it either like the homes we have in our home countries where things like this will increase property value.

 

Anyway, looks like we have some members that know what they are talking about, so I am going to monitor with interest. Good luck :cheersty:

 

Hello Scotty..

 

I strongly believe I can do it...of course with the help of others ..

Yes I know it'll cost me quite a bunch but not as high as I would have to pay if I ask a company to do it for me..

 

Just an example..

4 months ago I found a company in Internet from Manila one of the biggest specialized in these type of work..

I called them on the phone for a quatation..

 

 The ask me many questions as how big the roof, how many watts I need , how many appliances,  etc etc..

 

5 minutes later they called back..

<< sir we will come to your Island, with all materials, we bring everything, and install on your roof. All for 1.45 million pesos >> !!!

 

Excuse-me ! 1.5 mil I can build another house with this money plus I do not have this kind of change..!

 

I have done tons of calculations based on what I watched and read from youtube and my cost will be no more than 300,000 pesos ! Maybe less !!! Likely Less !

 

Have a great Christmas Scott !

 

Chuck

[Jack Peterson]

Whilst I am not into Solar Power I am reading this. I made a  comment on another posters post about purchase of surplus Power back to an Electric company so I thought that this Article could prove useful.

http://www.philstar.com/business/2013/12/23/1271112/solar-power-users-may-sell-excess-eletricity

 

Jack :)

[florin1106]

Whilst I am not into Solar Power I am reading this. I made a  comment on another posters post about purchase of surplus Power back to an Electric company so I thought that this Article could prove useful.

http://www.philstar.com/business/2013/12/23/1271112/solar-power-users-may-sell-excess-eletricity

 

Jack :)

Very useful link Jake..Thanks..

I did save it for future references..

 

Nice to know they start going in the right direction let's see if they will Implement or if all electrical companies will adhere to it..!

Some of these companies are Private and not sure if they may like  the idea of crediting customers...!!

 

Here in Panglao Island, Bohol,  the cost of 1 KWh is bet. 12 and 13 pesos..Quite high comparing with other cities in Philippines..

I have heard ( maybe a rumor) that this BOHECO is owned by an old cousin of Marcos the former dictator..Multi millionaire guy..

 

They are in business to suck you dry ..I don't ever see they giving you some money back..!!

 

We will see..

 

Thanks again

 

Chuck

[Dave Hounddriver]

Now please Dave , when your friend is starting to build his system or he has already the system up and running maybe you can arrange I'll to pay him a visit if he agrees..of course.

 

My buddy is one of the more friendly expats you will ever meet and he is proud of his new home and exotic solar system.  As I mentioned it will be all set up and running within 2 to 3 months.  He lives in Valencia but very near the Dumaguete border and I can assure you he will be quite happy to show it off so just keep in touch when you will be in the area after that time.  Or drop by any time and he will talk your ear off about the process, but it will be so much better when he can show off what he is talking about.

 

EDIT:  In the mean time, if you are wondering what kind of batteries he would have used (if Noreco was not willing to buy the surplus)  then you need to check out this site.  The newest thing in Solar power batteries and they are still getting the bugs out.  Its called a powerwall:

 

https://www.teslamotors.com/powerwall

Edited December 22, 2015 by Dave Hounddriver

[Huggybearman]

Hello Kenny

I will have to first apologize for my mistake by not specifying exactly the type of < panels 6x3 inch > I want to use..

Ken, I meant I am buying right now Solar CELLS 6x3 inches each..Not Solar Panels ! Sorry Mea Colpa !

These Cells are to be soldered in series ( each one gives away about 3.4 Watts) on a piece of hard plastic or Glass as a backing..!

There will be about 30 or 31 Solar Cells to One Panel which will give away about 100 Watts of electricity.

I already bought about 500 Cells from e-bay ( coming from Germany) and I need another 2 or 300 more..They are not that cheap ( but is getting cheaper though...)

I want to build these panels by myself because it will cost me less than half the price of one piece in CD r King.

It looks you are quite knowledgeable about this, I am still learning, I watch many videos in youtube ..Many videos show step by step how to connect, install, run, etc etc..

Of course I will take also a qualified Electrician to help me out when I am ready .. just to make sure I do not make any costly mistakes..

By the way I have seen in photos only these kind of Regulators. They call there Inverter or Converter....and yes I have read about MPPT the ones you are talking about..They recommend for residential use only MPPT. You are right ...

Yes I intend to use them with Batteries and yes I need to buy these Deep Cycle Ones as they are recommended and store the energy longer..They are also better quality..These batteries are mainly use in Marine world right ?

Thanks Ken for your post..

I will post here when I am ready and how it'll be going

take it easy..

Chuck

It sounds from your post you wish to build a substantial solar power array to provide you with a regular power supply to run heavy drain appliances. I think you are being overly optimistic unless you are going to invest a serious amount of money. I use solar on my boat in the UK to satisfy fairly modest power requirements. 530 watts of solar at 12 volts which provide around 30 amps max and an average of around half that on a good day. In overcast conditions it gives about 7 amps. You really need to do some serious research to avoid making an expensive mistake. First, there are different types of solar panel, mains voltage ie 220 or so, and then lower voltages such as 12 volts. Also there are different types of construction such as mono-crystaline and poly-crystalline and the more basic amorphous type. Each have their advantages depending on the ambient light conditions. Also temperature plays an important part in the panels output, the warmer the ambient temperature the less the output for a given panel so they need to be well ventilated for optimum performance. Another consideration is the type of regulator you use. Basically there are two types, a PWM (pulse width modulation) and the more advanced MPPT type (maximum power point tracking). The latter can give up to 30% more output than the PWM but if you have multiple panels and they are not all producing the same output then due to the software algorithms used, the MPPT can be less efficient than the PWM.

Also are you going to wire multiple panels in series or parallel? Again it depends on how they are going to used. I see you are currently purchasing multiple, smaller panels. 6"x 3" which is really not the way to go. Every joint and length of cable run will reduce to output of your panels due to voltage drop. You will need thick cable and short runs to keep voltage drop to a minimum. Fewer larger panels would be more efficient than many smaller ones. Are you planning to run these appliances direct from your panels or use them to charge deep cycle batteries? That opens up a whole new discussion topic in itself. But to be realistic you really need to have some power storage facility to iron out the peaks and troughs of the solar output. There is no one case fits all answer.

There is a wealth of information on the subject out there on the net. I would strongly suggest doing a lot of research so you are satified in your own mind the correct way to go forward to satisfy your personal requirements.

Ken

Hi Chuck

First, it should be me to apologise, I misunderstood what you said regarding the smaller cells. I see now you are assembling your own panels.

I see you are giving this project some serious thought so I am sure you will avoid the major pitfalls.

Just a few points you should be aware of. I am sure you are confident in your electrical abilities, but you are ultimately dealing with large and possibly life threatening electrical output, so if you are at all unsure at any stage of what you are doing, please seek the advice of a qualified electrician.

You are referring to an invertor or converter to transfer the output from your solar panels to the batteries. Maybe it is the usual terminology where you are from, but an invertor is completely different to a regulator. The regulator is what you will use to avoid cooking your batteries when connected to the solar panels. An invertor is what you will use to convert the DC current (12,24 or 48 volts) into 220/240 volts AC.

It is also important to use the correct type of batteries you wish to store your solar harvested energy. Deep Cycle or deep discharge batteries are constructed differently to automotive batteries, even the heavy duty truck type ones. They are designed for completely different purposes. So deep cycle are the way to go. Remember that the batteries need to be of sufficient size and quantity to cope with your anticipated needs down to, ideally, no less than 50% of their rated capacity. Occasional discharges to 30% or so are OK but any lower and you risk ruining your expensive set of batteries.

You mention also you wish to run A/C and other high current appliances. Remember, especially in the case of the likes of A/C that their initial draw will be considerably higher than their rated output. A 1hp A/C will usually draw around 900 watts, but on start up that could spike to nearly three times that. So you are going to need a very big invertor unless you are planning to store, and use, your electricity at 220 or 240 volts. On the subject of invertors, there are two types, pure sine wave and modified (or quasi) sine wave. The former is suitable for all applications but the latter can cause problems with sensitive equipment such as washing machines. Be certain that any equipment you intend to use is suited to whatever type of invertor you choose, otherwise you could be in for a very expensive lesson.

I am sure you have thought of this though, but thought it worth mentioning.

My personal opinion, and as mentioned by ozepete, would be not to go to the trouble and expense of installing (and maintaining) a full blown 'off grid' system, but rather, have a back-up system. For example, we use a couple of 12v deep cycle batteries running a 1000 watt pure sine wave invertor which can run your important stuff during brownouts. In our case a large LED tv, internet, sat tv box, three fans, a few LED lights etc. For prolonged brownouts, which in our case are relatively rare, we have a little Honda EU10i 'silent' genny which gives a pure sinewave output and runs pretty much anything we need. But not A/C of course.

Ken

Edited December 22, 2015 by Huggybearman

[florin1106]

 

Now please Dave , when your friend is starting to build his system or he has already the system up and running maybe you can arrange I'll to pay him a visit if he agrees..of course.

 

My buddy is one of the more friendly expats you will ever meet and he is proud of his new home and exotic solar system.  As I mentioned it will be all set up and running within 2 to 3 months.  He lives in Valencia but very near the Dumaguete border and I can assure you he will be quite happy to show it off so just keep in touch when you will be in the area after that time.  Or drop by any time and he will talk your ear off about the process, but it will be so much better when he can show off what he is talking about.

 

EDIT:  In the mean time, if you are wondering what kind of batteries he would have used (if Noreco was not willing to buy the surplus)  then you need to check out this site.  The newest thing in Solar power batteries and they are still getting the bugs out.  Its called a powerwall:

 

https://www.teslamotors.com/powerwall

 

Mornin' Dave

 

I am seriously consider visiting your friend in Valencia after he had installed the system and run it for 3-4 months..I need to see a live system with my own eyes to make a better assessment.. ..Let's keep it posted and will communicate..

 

The link you gave me is quite interesting..I guess these batteries Tesla are quite new on the market..It says < they will start delivery later in 2015.> Also they specify it must be installed by their own electricians..!! For the moment it is available in States only..That makes me believe these won't be cheap..!!!! Tesla is a high end company with good and expensive products..

 

Normally , according from what I read, the ideal ones, at the moment, are so called Deep Cycle Marine Batteries. That's what most of the people use.

My first battle will be assembling the Panels ....20 of them .. 

 

Have a great Christmas 

 

Chuck

[florin1106]

 

Hello Kenny

I will have to first apologize for my mistake by not specifying exactly the type of < panels 6x3 inch > I want to use..

Ken, I meant I am buying right now Solar CELLS 6x3 inches each..Not Solar Panels ! Sorry Mea Colpa !

These Cells are to be soldered in series ( each one gives away about 3.4 Watts) on a piece of hard plastic or Glass as a backing..!

There will be about 30 or 31 Solar Cells to One Panel which will give away about 100 Watts of electricity.

I already bought about 500 Cells from e-bay ( coming from Germany) and I need another 2 or 300 more..They are not that cheap ( but is getting cheaper though...)

I want to build these panels by myself because it will cost me less than half the price of one piece in CD r King.

It looks you are quite knowledgeable about this, I am still learning, I watch many videos in youtube ..Many videos show step by step how to connect, install, run, etc etc..

Of course I will take also a qualified Electrician to help me out when I am ready .. just to make sure I do not make any costly mistakes..

By the way I have seen in photos only these kind of Regulators. They call there Inverter or Converter....and yes I have read about MPPT the ones you are talking about..They recommend for residential use only MPPT. You are right ...

Yes I intend to use them with Batteries and yes I need to buy these Deep Cycle Ones as they are recommended and store the energy longer..They are also better quality..These batteries are mainly use in Marine world right ?

Thanks Ken for your post..

I will post here when I am ready and how it'll be going

take it easy..

Chuck

 

It sounds from your post you wish to build a substantial solar power array to provide you with a regular power supply to run heavy drain appliances. I think you are being overly optimistic unless you are going to invest a serious amount of money. I use solar on my boat in the UK to satisfy fairly modest power requirements. 530 watts of solar at 12 volts which provide around 30 amps max and an average of around half that on a good day. In overcast conditions it gives about 7 amps. You really need to do some serious research to avoid making an expensive mistake. First, there are different types of solar panel, mains voltage ie 220 or so, and then lower voltages such as 12 volts. Also there are different types of construction such as mono-crystaline and poly-crystalline and the more basic amorphous type. Each have their advantages depending on the ambient light conditions. Also temperature plays an important part in the panels output, the warmer the ambient temperature the less the output for a given panel so they need to be well ventilated for optimum performance. Another consideration is the type of regulator you use. Basically there are two types, a PWM (pulse width modulation) and the more advanced MPPT type (maximum power point tracking). The latter can give up to 30% more output than the PWM but if you have multiple panels and they are not all producing the same output then due to the software algorithms used, the MPPT can be less efficient than the PWM.

Also are you going to wire multiple panels in series or parallel? Again it depends on how they are going to used. I see you are currently purchasing multiple, smaller panels. 6"x 3" which is really not the way to go. Every joint and length of cable run will reduce to output of your panels due to voltage drop. You will need thick cable and short runs to keep voltage drop to a minimum. Fewer larger panels would be more efficient than many smaller ones. Are you planning to run these appliances direct from your panels or use them to charge deep cycle batteries? That opens up a whole new discussion topic in itself. But to be realistic you really need to have some power storage facility to iron out the peaks and troughs of the solar output. There is no one case fits all answer.

There is a wealth of information on the subject out there on the net. I would strongly suggest doing a lot of research so you are satified in your own mind the correct way to go forward to satisfy your personal requirements.

Ken

Hi Chuck

First, it should be me to apologise, I misunderstood what you said regarding the smaller cells. I see now you are assembling your own panels.

I see you are giving this project some serious thought so I am sure you will avoid the major pitfalls.

Just a few points you should be aware of. I am sure you are confident in your electrical abilities, but you are ultimately dealing with large and possibly life threatening electrical output, so if you are at all unsure at any stage of what you are doing, please seek the advice of a qualified electrician.

You are referring to an invertor or converter to transfer the output from your solar panels to the batteries. Maybe it is the usual terminology where you are from, but an invertor is completely different to a regulator. The regulator is what you will use to avoid cooking your batteries when connected to the solar panels. An invertor is what you will use to convert the DC current (12,24 or 48 volts) into 220/240 volts AC.

It is also important to use the correct type of batteries you wish to store your solar harvested energy. Deep Cycle or deep discharge batteries are constructed differently to automotive batteries, even the heavy duty truck type ones. They are designed for completely different purposes. So deep cycle are the way to go. Remember that the batteries need to be of sufficient size and quantity to cope with your anticipated needs down to, ideally, no less than 50% of their rated capacity. Occasional discharges to 30% or so are OK but any lower and you risk ruining your expensive set of batteries.

You mention also you wish to run A/C and other high current appliances. Remember, especially in the case of the likes of A/C that their initial draw will be considerably higher than their rated output. A 1hp A/C will usually draw around 900 watts, but on start up that could spike to nearly three times that. So you are going to need a very big invertor unless you are planning to store, and use, your electricity at 220 or 240 volts. On the subject of invertors, there are two types, pure sine wave and modified (or quasi) sine wave. The former is suitable for all applications but the latter can cause problems with sensitive equipment such as washing machines. Be certain that any equipment you intend to use is suited to whatever type of invertor you choose, otherwise you could be in for a very expensive lesson.

I am sure you have thought of this though, but thought it worth mentioning.

My personal opinion, and as mentioned by ozepete, would be not to go to the trouble and expense of installing (and maintaining) a full blown 'off grid' system, but rather, have a back-up system. For example, we use a couple of 12v deep cycle batteries running a 1000 watt pure sine wave invertor which can run your important stuff during brownouts. In our case a large LED tv, internet, sat tv box, three fans, a few LED lights etc. For prolonged brownouts, which in our case are relatively rare, we have a little Honda EU10i 'silent' genny which gives a pure sinewave output and runs pretty much anything we need. But not A/C of course.

Ken

 

Hi Ken..

 

Thanks for the input..Yes they may have different names/terms but they have the same function I think. Yes I will need a powerful Inverter which is maybe the most important piece of hardware..I checked in e-bay they are about $500.00 bucks or more..Also the Control Charger. In those video in youtube they call it like that. This one regulates the input of electricity from panels and onto the batteries..and will prevent them of getting fried by being over charged )This one is not that expensive $100.00 or $200.00 max.

 

Ken I will install and anssamble all the Panels, hooking up all batteries, cables, check everything and surely I will have an electrician double check entire system before I take it to the roof..

 

And you make an important point very wise..

First I will go as a Back-up System and if all goes well then I will eventually switch..Or maybe I will have it covering only the heavy-duties appliances and have the rest left it to power supplier..

 

That will be later..My house is not finished yet so I have some other priorities with my expenses.. 

 

I will keep you posted..

 

Take care

 

Chuck

[Dave Hounddriver]

I guess these batteries Tesla are quite new on the market.

 

Yes.  Here is a site that says you can buy them for US$3,000 so they are not cheap.  But are they worth it to you?

http://cleantechnica.com/2015/05/13/lets-get-straight-tesla-powerwall-does-3000/

 

Where there is a will, there is a way, so if you got someone in the USA to buy one and ship it to you it may be the answer, or not, But worth looking at because the system is only as good as the battery if you are off grid.

[florin1106]

 

I guess these batteries Tesla are quite new on the market.

 

Yes.  Here is a site that says you can buy them for US$3,000 so they are not cheap.  But are they worth it to you?

http://cleantechnica.com/2015/05/13/lets-get-straight-tesla-powerwall-does-3000/

 

Where there is a will, there is a way, so if you got someone in the USA to buy one and ship it to you it may be the answer, or not, But worth looking at because the system is only as good as the battery if you are off grid.

 

Hmmmm I knew they are top, new, state of the art...but darn expensive !!!

In comparison a Deep Cycle Marine Battery is about $400.00 bucks or less and many folks have installed the system completely with these batteries and all are happy with them..

 

I need about 12 of them ..but I'll have to give a good thought about the price..Hmm

 

Thanks again 

 

Chuck

 

Thanks a bunch