Cell phone now needed for Social Security AND Bank login

[intrepid]

1 hour ago, Jack Peterson said:

It would have been easier and most likely quicker to change Banks methinks

Correct. But the issue is in the very near future most likely all will be using these security steps.

[Gentleman.Jack.Darby]

6 hours ago, Mr. Bobo said:

I too maintain a US mailing address via a mail forwarder for many of the same reasons as you. I am not a lawyer but I believe that there is a difference between maintaining a US mailing address through a mail forwarding company and being physically domiciled in the US. IMO, with bank accounts, brokerage accounts, life insurance policies, etc. it is better to be up front with them about where you physically residing. 

Admin: Perhaps this should be moved to it's own thread?

Mr. Bobo,

My comments are not directed at you, so I hope you don't take offense.

One of the things that I've also been looking in detail is the issue of residency because I live in the U.S. Great Lakes region in a state with both State income tax and municipal income tax and my pension and deferred compensation will be taxable at the Federal level and the State level when I collect them.

So I will definitely be changing my state of residency and my state of legal domicile.

One of the things that makes the issue of "residency" confusing is that there is a difference, legally speaking, between one's "residence" and one's "legal domicile" and, most of the time, the terms are used imprecisely and interchangeably.

In a nutshell, one's "legal domicile" is the place in which one has their permanent home and to which he has the closest legal attachment and to which one, when absent for any period of time, has the intention to return.

One's "residency" is the place in which one is living at any point in time and is not necessarily one's "legal domicile"

For an interesting illustration of what happens when one does not take positive steps to clarify one's legal domicile and residency, I would suggest reading the book The Money: The Battle for Howard Hughes' Billions by James R Phelen, ISBN 0-394-55637-2. Unfortunately, it's not currently available on Kindle. In brief, when Howard Hughes died, he was in flight attempting to get to Las Vegas, where his advisors had attempted to establish residency and legal domicile to avoid estate taxes. Because he did not make it, the ensuing legal battle involved Texas, where he was born, California, where he had substantial business interests, and Nevada, where he had business interests and his advisors had attempted to establish residency and legal domicile.

In the state of Florida, one can establish Florida residency and legal domicile using a mail forwarding address **AND** by filing a Declaration of Domicile with the Clerk of the Circuit Court in the county in which one wants to reside.

The issue of one's residence can become a hotly contested issue if one's current residence is one of the high tax states such as California or New York. Generally, one must take positive actions to establish one's residence in the new state **AND** positive actions to "cut ties" with one's previous state of residence. It's not just about getting a mail forwarding account and filing some forms.

I know this is a complex issue and there's a lot more to it, but I've got to get up and get going for the day.

If there's any more interest, I'll be happy to post into more detail.

About a year ago, I posted extensively about this on another Philippines forum and we had a good discussion going, but the forum had a problem with the underlying database and their backups were not usable to restore portions of the database which, of course, included most of my posts. As well, I did not keep copies of what I'd posted so that I could re-post if required.

 

 

 

 

[Gentleman.Jack.Darby]

12 hours ago, Mr. Bobo said:

My advice to anyone that has any type of account with Fidelity is to call their support number and find out the ramifications of moving out of the US. 

I appreciate you posting your horror story because it helps to understand some of the things one must keep in mind when moving outside the U.S.

I'd like to mention one major thing that anyone thinking about setting up an account at Charles Schwab Bank or a Fidelity Cash Management ("bank") account should keep in mind that I learned "the hard way", although it was not a major problem because I'm still in the U.S.:

Neither Charles Schwab nor Fidelity are "banks" in the conventional sense - they are, at the heart, brokerages which means they have a whole different set of compliance requirements when compared to conventional banks or credit unions. I set up my Charles Schwab account last summer and I have to say, I found the procedure somewhat frustrating, especially since I did most of the set up at a local office. Everything just moved more slowly and with more "paperwork" than I had encountered when setting up bank accounts. Once it dawned on me that what I was really doing was setting up a brokerage account, which I hadn't done in more than 15 years, I calmed down and took it in stride.

When I set up my Fidelity account last month, I had a better idea of what to expect and the length of time that would take, so I was much more patient.

I've come to the realization that **FOR ME**, I will use a "heavy-hitter" bank that is used to dealing with clients who travel abroad and who spend extended time away for home and use Charles Schwab Bank and my Fidelity Cash Management accounts mostly for ATM transactions.

For me, my preference is Citibank to receive my pension direct deposit and, since Citi offers free, real-time transfers to one's overseas Citi account, use that to get "big money" into the PI.

Then, I'll use Citi's next day ACH transfer option to move money to Schwab or Fidelity for ATM and back up purposes.

[OnMyWay]

8 hours ago, Mr. Bobo said:

IMO, with bank accounts, brokerage accounts, life insurance policies, etc. it is better to be up front with them about where you physically residing. 

Not unless you know their policy in advance.  I tried to open 2 brokerage accounts after Fidelity threatened me.  Both turned me down when I listed my Philippines address.  Here is my conversation with Fidelity, edited a bit.  I eventually called and found a sympathetic ear, and all I did was change my address to my sister's house in California.  However, if you look at their policy on their website, it has very strong wording on the subject.

When I changed my address to the Philippines, I had no idea it would be a problem and I chatted with the CS agent all about it.  At that time, they never indicated there was a problem.

I agree we are getting a bit off the original topic but it is somewhat related to getting the security codes.  I am providing the correspondence below with the hope that it may help some of you avoid problems.  My retirement is based on investments, and losing the ability to invest has huge ramifications for me.

--- Original Message --- 
From: DONALD XXXXXXX
Received: 5/20/13 9:21:06 AM EDT 
To: secureinbound 
Topic: Account services and features
Attachments: 
Subject: Living in Philippines 

I was shocked when I received letters today stating that Fidelity can no longer provide investment services for me because I live in the Philippines. Just last fall Fidelity assisted me with changing my address to the Philippines and it was never mentioned that this was an issue. I would like a detailed explanation as to why this has happened. 

There is nothing in the letters explaining why and offering options. Fidelity is known for good customer service in the industry, but now you have a customer who feels completely betrayed. 

Regards, 

Don Leathers 

From:Fidelity
To:Donald XXXXXXX
Topic:Account services and features
Subject:RE: Living in Philippines <<#1198178-4589300#>>
Date:05/31/2013 1:25 PM
Dear Mr. XXXXXX:

We are in receipt of your electronic message, regarding the status of your accounts. 

We are currently researching the issues raised in your correspondence and confirm a response will be provided at the conclusion of our review.

Sincerely, 

Shaun McEnery 
Executive Office

W631156-20MAY13 

Dear Mr. XXXXXX:

Thank you for your electronic message, regarding the status of your accounts.

Fidelity continually evaluates policies and procedures in light of an ever changing global regulatory environment. While there has not been a specific regulatory change, the rules governing the marketing, offering, and sale of securities and investment services can vary greatly depending on the country. Consequently, we have enhanced our policies for working with investors who reside outside of the United States.

Because of these recent changes to our policy, as of July 1, 2013, you will no longer be able to make additional purchases of securities or deposit additional funds into your accounts. Please note these changes do not affect your ability to maintain the investments you currently hold in your account, or to sell those holdings whenever you choose.

We recognize these limitations may cause you to transfer your assets to another financial institution that is better able to meet all of your investment needs. Financial institutions have varied business models as well as differing approaches to investors residing outside of the United States. Given these differences, we are unable to advise you with respect to selecting a financial institution; however, we are happy to assist you with the transfer process once a receiving firm has been selected.

Mr. XXXXXX, please accept my apology for the frustration this issue has caused. If you have any additional questions regarding this matter, please contact us at 866-613-1051. For your convenience, representatives are available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. 

For assistance with reaching Fidelity from an international number, please visit Fidelity.com/contactus to view the information under "Other Resources" at the bottom of the page. 

Sincerely,

Shaun XXXXXX
Executive Office

W631156-20MAY13
Mr. XXXXXX,

After over 1 week without acknowledgement of my original message, on May 31 you said:

We are currently researching the issues raised in your correspondence and confirm a response will be provided at the conclusion of our review.

Now after another week you give me a response that tells me nothing new, and appears to be very close to a copy / paste of the original letter I received.

You have not answered my questions as to WHY the policy was changed and WHY Fidelity helped my change my address to the Philippines, when it would be an issue.  I could have left my address in the US and I assume we would not be having this conversation.

This response is inadequate and not representative of the good customer service I have received from Fidelity during the many years I have been a customer.  I will follow with written communications to senior management.

Regards,

Don XXXXXXX
 

[Gentleman.Jack.Darby]

7 minutes ago, OnMyWay said:

Because of these recent changes to our policy, as of July 1, 2013, you will no longer be able to make additional purchases of securities or deposit additional funds into your accounts.

I wonder if that would stop one from transferring additional cash into the cash management account and/or using the ATM function?

Both Charles Schwab and Fidelity are pretty clear that one need not fund or use the brokerage portion of the account in order to have and use the Schwab "bank" account or the Fidelity Cash Management Account.

More research...

[Gentleman.Jack.Darby]

28 minutes ago, OnMyWay said:

I tried to open 2 brokerage accounts after Fidelity threatened me.  Both turned me down when I listed my Philippines address.  Here is my conversation with Fidelity, edited a bit.  I eventually called and found a sympathetic ear, and all I did was change my address to my sister's house in California.

I found a nice article written by a financial advisory firm that sheds some light on the situation and that others might find helpful.

I have no idea about the size or expertise of the firm, but they do disclose that they are a "fee for service" firm which, in my opinion, is the "gold standard" for an advisory firm.

The article mentioned using a U.S. address even if one is resident abroad. Here's the pertinent part for those not wishing to read the entire article:

"Finally, it should also be noted that in many cases the best solution for Americans abroad is simply to keep their address of record in the U.S. Any American living abroad, even for an extended period, is well within their rights to use a U.S. address for the sake of opening accounts and receiving mail. In this case, there will be no restrictions on the account. "

The URL to the article is:

https://thunfinancial.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Why-US-Accounts-of-Americans-Abroad-Are-Being-Closed-20151.pdf

[OnMyWay]

2 hours ago, Gentleman.Jack.Darby said:

I wonder if that would stop one from transferring additional cash into the cash management account and/or using the ATM function?

The letter said All of my accounts would not be able to have money put in, only withdrawn.  So I guess the ATM would still work.  I have IRAs and the cash management account.

[Gentleman.Jack.Darby]

OK, I believe I've solved the issue of **WHY** Bank of America SafePass SMS verification codes **WILL NOT** go to Google Voice:

The simple answer is that Google Voice does not have an e-mail to SMS gateway.

It **IS NOT** that GV **DOES NOT** support SMS shortcodes because GV has supported that for about 3 years and those work fine.

When BofA sends SMS confirmation codes, what they are really doing behind the scenes is sending the codes via e-mail, **NOT** SMS as SMS is sent between two cellular phone users.

When the **SMS** confirmation code hits one's cellular provider's e-mail to SMS gateway, the code is "converted" to SMS as we understand it on a cell phone and one can use it to log on.

Because GV **DOES NOT** have an e-mail to SMS gateway, it appears to users that either BofA didn't send the code or it disappeared in transit.

This also allows BofA to ensure that SafePass SMS codes go only to U.S. registered cell phones - each U.S. cell provider has an e-mail to SMS gateway address that looks something like this, using T-Mobile as an example: yournumber@tmomail.net or, for AT&T, yournumber@txt.att.net. That is, 1234567890@tmomail.net or 1234567890@txt.att.net

And, because the country code of "1" for the U.S. is implied and the cell number is 10 digits, I believe this would prevent anyone from using a Philippines cell phone because, in order to do that, BofA would have to use 011 (Exit code from U.S), 63 (Philippines Country Code), 9 (Philippines Cell Designator) and 12 345 6789 (Philippines number). Seems like lots of room for errors.

It is my understanding and something that I've seen from testing, that other banks, such as Chase, do the same thing because I can't get their SMS verification code either through GV. However, Chase will send the code via e-mail, which is the end result of using GV anyway.

it is also my understanding that banks do this in order to minimize costs - from what I was able to find, it is much cheaper to send the code via e-mail than it is to send the code via "true" SMS.

So, until GV gets an e-mail to SMS gateway, we are stuck using workarounds such as the ones I suggested in my first post.

 

 

 

[Mr. Bobo]

11 hours ago, Gentleman.Jack.Darby said:

My comments are not directed at you, so I hope you don't take offense.

No offense taken Jack, my main concern was about potential legal problems of being a resident of the Philippines and using a mail forwarding address to "emulate" a US residency. Apparently it is legal to do. I don't like the fact that America Express whacks me with a 2% foreign transaction fee every time I use my AMEX card over here. I am considering obtaining a credit card from a US bank that doesn't have a foreign transaction fee using my mail forwarding address.  

[Mr. Bobo]

6 hours ago, OnMyWay said:

The letter said All of my accounts would not be able to have money put in, only withdrawn.  So I guess the ATM would still work.  I have IRAs and the cash management account.

As I said in my Op I had joint a Fidelity WROS account that reimbursed my ATM fees, which thanks to my wife are substantial. When Fidelity bounced my SS direct deposit back to the US treasury and informed me that I couldn't deposit into the WROS account anymore I was dead in the water, I had no way to get funds into the WROS account. I was able, however, to withdraw the funds that were in account. I do have an IRA with fidelity and when I log on to the fidelity website to look at my IRA I can see that I have a balance of 6 cents in my WROS account. I miss the days of no ATM fees!