Health cover

[stevewool]

Can anyone advice me on what they pay for health insurance per month or each year , I’ve tried to go the internet way but you have to fill in all your details and then they plague you every day by phone and email even though you have told them it’s just a enquiry, I know a few years back when I was looking at moving out there a few folk did mention that they don’t have any health cover and was just relying on savings plus maybe a trip back to there country for medical help are there still folk who think this way is still ok 

[Dave Hounddriver]

3 hours ago, stevewool said:

Can anyone advice me on what they pay for health insurance per month or each year

I thought you got free health insurance in England?

Anyway, I "self insured" all the time I was in Philippines and I would do that again if I went back.

[JJReyes]

Self-insured is best, but you need to set aside funds in a separate account.  This way you are not tempted to use the money for other things.  While seniors have USA Medicare A, this is minimal coverage for hospitalization (80% government, 20% patient).  If you want Medicare B supplement for doctor's visits and medical tests, the premium is deducted from your Social Security.   We also have supplemental insurance through Aetna.  This coverage includes 80% overseas for emergency medical.  Total is approximately $6,000 a year in 2022.  Possibly $6,600 for 2023.  We will know next month.  Assuming P300,000 to P350,000 set aside a year, my calculation is this would be sufficient. 

[CebuAndy]

11 hours ago, stevewool said:

Can anyone advice me on what they pay for health insurance per month or each year ,

 

a few folk did mention that they don’t have any health cover and was just relying on savings plus maybe a trip back to there country for medical help are there still folk who think this way is still ok 

 

I'm paying 2,500 USD year.

Self insure is only cheaper if when:

- you actually have minimum 90,000 USD in a separate saving account, just enough to pay for 1 major lifesaving surgery. I personally know friends who paid more than 200,000 USD (!) for multiple surgeries. Luckily, they didn't self-insure. They had top end insurance (not local).

Those few who self-insure, seldom have enough savings set aside, to even pay for 1/3 of a major surgery 90,000 USD. I asked a few. They fool themselves, live in denial.

"A trip back home" when shxt hit the fan, are often impossible, for medical reasons.

Self-insure is irresponsible and unrealistic, since many haven't actual knowledge of how expensive life saving surgeries are these days. 

* Major surgery 90,000 USD+

* ICU room per day up to 3,000 USD.

* 14 days hospitalization.

Check out the horrible conditions in ER, in government hospital first. Then get a good health insurance, that will pay for private hospital.

[jimeve]

1 hour ago, CebuAndy said:

I'm paying 2,500 USD year.

Is there an age limit on private health care? I heard it goes sky high when one reaches a certain age. 

I have only got PhilHealth I know it's only basic and will not cover the full cost.

[CebuAndy]

24 minutes ago, jimeve said:

Is there an age limit on private health care? I heard it goes sky high when one reaches a certain age. 

I have only got PhilHealth I know it's only basic and will not cover the full cost.

Yes.  Age limit is 60-65. After that most will decline to insure you.

Yes, again. My insurance increased 10-15% yearly from age 50+. I expect higher yearly increase sometime in my 60's. From age 70 I would expect 350-500 Usd, monthly Premium!  So at some point before I reach age 70, I expect Premium to be too high for my budget. 

That might be the reason why so many expats in their late 60's  move back to their country of birth. 

Philhealth cover less than 40% from my experience. Some member wrote that local insurers demand one must have Philhealth. International insurers don't demand this.

From my own experience.

 

Edited January 22, 2023 by CebuAndy

[hk blues]

4 minutes ago, CebuAndy said:

Yes.  Age limit is 60-65. After that most will decline to insure you.

Yes, again. My insurance increased 10-15% yearly from age 50+. I expect higher yearly increase sometime in my 60's. From age 70 I would expect 350-500 Usd, monthly Premium!  So at some point before I reach age 70, I expect Premium to be too high for my budget. 

That might be the reason why so many expats in their late 60's  move back to their country of birth. 

Philhealth cover less than 40% from my experience. Some member wrote that local insurers demand one must have Philhealth. International insurers don't demand this.

From my own experience.

 

I know you've been pretty definitive about having private cover, and fair enough. I will disagree though that it's irresponsible and unrealistic not to - it's a calculated risk for me. 

At 2,500 a year that's 125k php - over the years that will mount up towards a hefty contribution towards any future medical bill. Throw in the fact you will probably lose cover just when need it, or at least pay massive premiums, and it starts to lose its shine. Let's not forget insurance companies are amongst the most profitable for a reason - they insure people who are less likely to need it. Further, how about wife and kids - surely folk don't cover only themselves and take a flier with family members? So, your 2,500 becomes 5,000 or more. At least.

I'm not sure your costs are entirely accurate either - at 200,000 USD that equates to 12m pesos. I doubt many of us will ever need medical treatment to that level. And, before anyone jumps in with some real examples, there will be those who do but rare cases. I'll take the calculated risk on that. 

I usually like your posts, Andy, but think that saying those of us who've "done the math" and weighed up the situation and have decided to self-insure (gotta love that euphemism for not insure) are irresponsible and unrealistic is a tad unfair. No offence intended.

To finish, rightly or wrongly many of us ex-pats are simply not into health insurance due to our home country provision.

 

[CebuAndy]

18 minutes ago, hk blues said:

I know you've been pretty definitive about having private cover, and fair enough. I will disagree though that it's irresponsible and unrealistic not to - it's a calculated risk for me. 

At 2,500 a year that's 125k php - over the years that will mount up towards a hefty contribution towards any future medical bill. Throw in the fact you will probably lose cover just when need it, or at least pay massive premiums, and it starts to lose its shine. Let's not forget insurance companies are amongst the most profitable for a reason - they insure people who are less likely to need it. Further, how about wife and kids - surely folk don't cover only themselves and take a flier with family members? So, your 2,500 becomes 5,000 or more. At least.

I'm not sure your costs are entirely accurate either - at 200,000 USD that equates to 12m pesos. I doubt many of us will ever need medical treatment to that level. And, before anyone jumps in with some real examples, there will be those who do but rare cases. I'll take the calculated risk on that. 

I usually like your posts, Andy, but think that saying those of us who've "done the math" and weighed up the situation and have decided to self-insure (gotta love that euphemism for not insure) are irresponsible and unrealistic is a tad unfair. No offence intended.

To finish, rightly or wrongly many of us ex-pats are simply not into health insurance due to our home country provision.

 

 

Oh, where to start (smiling)

OK, 2500$ X 15 years still Don't Cover a heart surgery in a private hospital. Would you Bet that you wouldn't have any heart problem or other major surgery between age 55 to 70? I wouldn't. I play it safe rather than sorry, thinking of former expat friends over 20+ years, some lost (had to sell) their house etc, to pay medical invoice. This actually do happen, and that's why I am so "definitive" about get a proper insurance.

When that occur, do most have the required amount in a saving account??? From  previous discussions with friends, that's often not the case. So, if, when the day come, what they do?

Travel home is not a option, when one get really sick. People tend to think that travel home would be a option. It often isn't.

Wife coverage, what I heard is that most insure wife with a local insurer. Some only Philhealth. Wife is often 15-30 years younger, her premium would be peanuts, compared to our premium. Doesn't meaning we don't appreciate wife, it's just wifes younger age, she likely don't need life saving surgery until she reach 50+.

Medical cost example was based on close expat friends invoice. Not taken out of the air. It's OK that we disagree. Only life will show us what our own invoice will be, when we ourselves end up in hospital.

Some are OK to have surgery and 2 weeks hospitalizaion in a goverment hospital. Until I myself observed patients there, I thought it was OK. After I folloved a friend there, I have a horrible image in my mind, that never leave my memory.

I totally respect we all have different life, and live with calculated risk of some sort. if you and I had this friendly discussion in real life meet up, I would just say Up To You, and wouldn't look down on you in any way. As long we both respect each other different opinions, it's all good @hk blues

[fillipino_wannabe]

3 hours ago, CebuAndy said:

 

I'm paying 2,500 USD year.

Self insure is only cheaper if when:

- you actually have minimum 90,000 USD in a separate saving account, just enough to pay for 1 major lifesaving surgery. I personally know friends who paid more than 200,000 USD (!) for multiple surgeries. Luckily, they didn't self-insure. They had top end insurance (not local).

Those few who self-insure, seldom have enough savings set aside, to even pay for 1/3 of a major surgery 90,000 USD. I asked a few. They fool themselves, live in denial.

"A trip back home" when shxt hit the fan, are often impossible, for medical reasons.

Self-insure is irresponsible and unrealistic, since many haven't actual knowledge of how expensive life saving surgeries are these days. 

* Major surgery 90,000 USD+

* ICU room per day up to 3,000 USD.

* 14 days hospitalization.

Check out the horrible conditions in ER, in government hospital first. Then get a good health insurance, that will pay for private hospital.

St Lukes website estimates heart surgery at $18k. I highly doubt anywhere in the Philippines charges $3k per day for an ICU room either, I doubt it's even $500.

[hk blues]

2 hours ago, CebuAndy said:

 

Oh, where to start (smiling)

OK, 2500$ X 15 years still Don't Cover a heart surgery in a private hospital. Would you Bet that you wouldn't have any heart problem or other major surgery between age 55 to 70? I wouldn't. I play it safe rather than sorry, thinking of former expat friends over 20+ years, some lost (had to sell) their house etc, to pay medical invoice. This actually do happen, and that's why I am so "definitive" about get a proper insurance.

When that occur, do most have the required amount in a saving account??? From  previous discussions with friends, that's often not the case. So, if, when the day come, what they do?

Travel home is not a option, when one get really sick. People tend to think that travel home would be a option. It often isn't.

Wife coverage, what I heard is that most insure wife with a local insurer. Some only Philhealth. Wife is often 15-30 years younger, her premium would be peanuts, compared to our premium. Doesn't meaning we don't appreciate wife, it's just wifes younger age, she likely don't need life saving surgery until she reach 50+.

Medical cost example was based on close expat friends invoice. Not taken out of the air. It's OK that we disagree. Only life will show us what our own invoice will be, when we ourselves end up in hospital.

Some are OK to have surgery and 2 weeks hospitalizaion in a goverment hospital. Until I myself observed patients there, I thought it was OK. After I folloved a friend there, I have a horrible image in my mind, that never leave my memory.

I totally respect we all have different life, and live with calculated risk of some sort. if you and I had this friendly discussion in real life meet up, I would just say Up To You, and wouldn't look down on you in any way. As long we both respect each other different opinions, it's all good @hk blues

I guess we just look at calculated risk in a different way. 

I'm not trying to convince either of us - no point! But, I'll explain my thinking based on real situation. I am likely looking at having surgery here - private hospital with Philhealth subsidy. Total cost 180k ×/-. So, at your annual premium I would break even this year. How about the previous 7 years I've been here though - I've put almost a million in the pot for future treatment.  

I very, very much doubt the numbers you have quoted are typical - I cannot see anyone paying 150k+ per day in ICU or 12m on a surgery but maybe I'm wrong.

Regardless, you're in a sense prepaying for something you may not need, likely won't need or when you will it's no longer available as the premium is out of budget and that's assuming you can even get cover.

I wasn't so much debating the value of insurance, rather the idea that those of us who haven't taken it are irresponsible etc etc. I have chosen not to based on everything I've said above.

I do fully appreciate that some wish to remove the risk element, I'm usually one of those folk, but not I'm the case of health insurance when the rug will be pulled from under my feet when I am most likely to need it.

If you're every up my way, I'll let you buy me a beer and convince me I'm wrong. Alternatively, bring some grapes when you visit me in hospital!

All good.

ETA - I should add I do have sufficient funds to cover more than my fair share of treatment so the risk is very much calculated. 

Edited January 22, 2023 by hk blues