Jollygoodfellow Posted February 12, 2012 Posted February 12, 2012 Your INNOCENT until Proven Guilty in 1st world countries Maybe so but take a look out the window,you are not at "home" now. If everything and every way is compared to back home then why does anyone leave their backyard. Adapt,its like comparing the price of corn flakes,makes no damn difference. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hounddriver Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Maybe so but take a look out the window,you are not at "home" now. If everything and every way is compared to back home then why does anyone leave their backyard. Adapt,its like comparing the price of corn flakes,makes no damn difference. Strongly disagree here. The thread is about foreigners ratting out foreigners, not about the Philippine legal system or the cultural differences. Doesn't matter what country you are in or what language you put on it, a rat is a rat. You should live with the morals you were brought up with, including assuming the innocence of a fellow expat until proven guilty. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genius Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Is assisting the police, interpol, inconsistent with the assumption of innocence of the person you are providing information about ?A rat is a rat. A criminal is a criminal.A rose is a rose.You should live with the morals you were brought up with.Even when those morals are amoral ? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genius Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 I clarify, I do not see how helping the police suggests one does not assume innocence, just that there is acase to answer.I suppose you could make an exception for countries you believe are corrupt. That Initself does not justify claim of innocence until proven guilty, if the party will not allow any proof to be given on basis that they would be ratted out and that is wrong, Effectively, then everyone has carte blanche to never defend themselves against allegations whilst still asserting their innocence, which is not a 1st world concept at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Americano Posted February 13, 2012 Author Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) I wasn't talking about suspicion of guilt by individuals. I mean someone who has already been found guilty in court or a court has issued an arrest warrant or a government agency with authority to make legal decisions, such as BOI. Or if you know they are guilty of a crime because you witnessed it. Edited February 13, 2012 by Americano 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i am bob Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Do you think that Momar Ghaddafy should have been allowed to just take off and not answer for his "supposed" crimes? Osama bin Ladin? Is there really a difference in turning them in to the authorities to face trial as opposed to someone accused of murdering others? To me there is none. I'm not convicting them, I'm just ensuring that I'm protecting my family and friends. The fact that they ran from defending themselves is their own belief in their being convicted. Is it a fair and accurate trial? That is not for me to say but for the appeals courts as well as civil liberties groups within their country and court systems. Now what if we are talking about a misdemeanour offence? Governments don't extradite for these. So it's a moot point to the argument. This is a conversation dealing with strictly major felonies and those who ran rather than prove their innocence. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jollygoodfellow Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Maybe so but take a look out the window,you are not at "home" now. If everything and every way is compared to back home then why does anyone leave their backyard. Adapt,its like comparing the price of corn flakes,makes no damn difference. Strongly disagree here. The thread is about foreigners ratting out foreigners, not about the Philippine legal system or the cultural differences. Doesn't matter what country you are in or what language you put on it, a rat is a rat. You should live with the morals you were brought up with, including assuming the innocence of a fellow expat until proven guilty.OK; so where does your morals lie if you knew the whereabouts of someone who killed your mother or sister.Would you live with the fact that they wont be bought to justice to stand by your morals that a rat is a rat?including assuming the innocence of a fellow expat until proven guiltyWe can assume all we like but if one was in hiding we wont know if guilty or not unless the case is heard without him or her.Then I guess in that scenario someone will say its not a fair trial. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike S Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 A true occurrence ...... I have been asked to serve on 4 jury's in my lifetime and never went to a single trial ..... I was always dismissed .... at the last one the defense attorney asked me if I thought that the man sitting over there (his client) was guilty because the police had arrested him ..... wrong question to ask me ..... I replied back "well sir he must be guilty of something or else the cops wouldn't have arrested him ..... they don't arrest you for nothing you know" ...... needless to say I was removed ...... and the judge didn't appreciate the out burst from the spectators .....As to being a rat ..... that is how the mob .... drug dealers and other crime organizations have operated for years and still do by intimidation or peer pressure .... no one wants to be considered a rat by his friends ..... this way it is you don't tell on me and I won't tell on you ..... and so the crimes continue because it is more of a crime to be a rat than to turn in someone who is guilty of committing a crime that you personally know about ........ well that is until it happens in your back yard ..... then it is a different story .... but to each his own ..... I guess just do what you are comfortable with ..... I was brought up to tell the truth even if it hurts and not shirk your duty ..... nothing in there about being afraid of being a rat ..... pass the cheese please ...... :hystery: :hystery: 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Americano Posted February 13, 2012 Author Posted February 13, 2012 I can see why the term ratting someone out would be started by criminals. No one wants to be called a rat, so criminals started using the term to intimidate witnesses who could turn them in to law enforcement or testify against them. Saying you are a rat or ratting someone out is turning the witness into a bad guy, which is wrong. Think about this: If the witness is a rat then what is the criminal? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum Support Old55 Posted February 13, 2012 Forum Support Posted February 13, 2012 "Here's a question for the readers of this thread. The criminal foreigners hiding in the Philippines make it look bad for all foreigners, so do you believe its our duty to help bring to justice our own people by at least letting Immigration know they are here or should we just pretend to be innocent by standers?"I don't think a criminal Foreigner makes it look bad for all Foreigners. However most Filipinos would and all Filipino news outlets would spin it to reflect poorly on all Foreigners,I guess because of Pinoy pride? What do you guys think? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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